Pitchforks?

[zipman]

Funny how when there is a republican administration, the call is "America, love it or leave it."

With a democrat, it's armed rebellion.

What do you guys call that, situational patriotism?

 

[unregistered]

 

[zipman]

Democrats represent a threat to the constitutional order of things, as a matter of fact they hate the constitution and spend all of their waking hours trying to undermine it, some Americans see this activity as an act of aggression by domestic enemies. En garde you fucker.

Instead of armed rebellion, why don't you republicans try something really radical, like winning elections. You know, take power the American way, through elections.

 

[Saint Peter]

Lee remained loyal to his state when its legislature voted to secede.

South Carolina was the member of a seven-state Confederacy when its troops fired on Fort Sumter.

Not a military coups.

And does anyone care to disagree with the proposition above that coups virtually always end badly?

Very few deliver on their promises.

 

[Saint Peter]

Instead of armed rebellion, why don't you republicans try something really radical, like winning elections. You know, take power the American way, through elections.

Guns are funner!

My .45 will SHRED that Abrams a1. Fuckers will never know what him them.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sam1]

If true, that was an incredibly stupid remark to make given how much Obama needs the cooperation of these guys.

Timmy, the incompetent tax cheat, has made it clear that he can, and will, replace CEO's at the financial institutions. Fine, and then what is he going to do? He can't even fill the open positions in his own Dept., what's he think he's going to do, run the banks single handedly as well?

Ishmael

You left out the "if necessary" in Giethner's statement. It will not happen because it will never be necessary.

 

[zipman]

Guns are funner!

My .45 will SHRED that Abrams a1. Fuckers will never know what him them.

Tell that to the 3 cops who just died from believing the right wing rhetoric:

Margaret Poplawski told police her son had enlisted in the Marine Corps a few years ago, but was discharged for assaulting his drill sergeant in basic training, according to the complaint. Since his discharge, she told police, he had been "stockpiling guns and ammunition, buying and selling the weapons online, because he believed that as a result of the economic collapse, the police were no longer able to protect society. Mrs. Poplawski reported that her son only liked police when they were not curtailing his constitutional rights, which he was determined to protect," the complaint said.

 

[Saint Peter]

Tell that to the 3 cops who just died from believing the right wing rhetoric:

I meant no disrespect to the downed cops and their families.

Ish and I went around about this earlier in the thread. The technology the "revolution" will be facing makes the .45 look like a bb gun.

 

[zipman]

I meant no disrespect to the downed cops and their families.

Ish and I went around about this earlier in the thread. The technology the "revolution" will be facing makes the .45 look like a bb gun.

I didn't think you were being purposefully disprespectful at all.

I was just pointing out that there are consequences to the irresponsible and treasonous rhetoric of the right.

 

[Ishmael]

Guns are funner!

My .45 will SHRED that Abrams a1. Fuckers will never know what him them.

Ya know Petey, that argument always comes up. And if the full might of the military were let loose on the populace (and there is the question about whether they'd even obey that order), there is no doubt that they'd win.

And then everyone would look around and start wondering what fucking economy is going to pay to clean up the mess? Because if that were to happen there wouldn't be any economy.

The people represent the economy and the it's the economy that pays for shit. The military just might look around and decide it would be easier to change the government and have an economy left when it's over with than to protect the government and destroy the economy.

And I don't think that anyone would be amazed to find out that we really don't need Washington DC to get on with our lives.

Ishmael

 

[Saint Peter]

Ya know Petey, that argument always comes up. And if the full might of the military were let loose on the populace (and there is the question about whether they'd even obey that order), there is no doubt that they'd win.

And then everyone would look around and start wondering what fucking economy is going to pay to clean up the mess? Because if that were to happen there wouldn't be any economy.

The people represent the economy and the it's the economy that pays for shit. The military just might look around and decide it would be easier to change the government and have an economy left when it's over with than to protect the government and destroy the economy.

And I don't think that anyone would be amazed to find out that we really don't need Washington DC to get on with our lives.

Ishmael

There have been times in history when the army refused orders concerning civilians. We have also seen a war on this soil where brothers have shot brothers. David (supposedly) did the giant in with a sling and a rock, but for the most part I think that makes a romantic story.

I have worked in a secure government installation. I know how much the government can do to protect their goodies.

It will be far from an easy fight.

 

[Sam1]

...So he spends his entire 75 days in office stirring up class envy and polarizing the banks and now he claims that he is the bank's last refuge. ...

Given Obama's talents as a speaker he would not need 75 days to stir up class envy. If that had been his intention about a week would have been enough. After that the banks would have been rubble and The Hamptons a burned out war zone.

 

[Ishmael]

There have been times in history when the army refused orders concerning civilians. We have also seen a war on this soil where brothers have shot brothers. David (supposedly) did the giant in with a sling and a rock, but for the most part I think that makes a romantic story.

I have worked in a secure government installation. I know how much the government can do to protect their goodies.

It will be far from an easy fight.

I know that too Petey. Los Alamos was not breached from the outside. How many other communties do you know of with Ratels parked in the firehouses?

Ishmael

 

[KingOrfeo]

KO

Lincoln being the one and only POTUS didn't stop Lee from leading the South and most of the "professional" army of the time against him.

Think about it for a second.

And Lee and his officers were traitors. Every officer now serving knows it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

There are many (millions) that believe the act of bankrupting the nation for political gain is an act of dosmestic terrorism.

Ishmael

"Political gain"? Obama is spending trillions because there's no other way out of this. And I don't think there are "millions" who would be utterly, astonishingly stupid enough to call that "terrorism" of any kind.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

Oh shut up. Those officers were given the choice to fight for their states or for the Union. The whole god damn South felt the way Lee and those officers felt or there would have been no war. You cannot judge those men outside the context of their time by applying today's morality to their actions. You may remember Lee was not tried for treason.

I know. Nobody was, save Jefferson Davis. Nevertheless, while serving officers in the U.S. military today might have been indoctrinated to admire Lee as an officer and a gentleman, which he was, not a one has been indoctrinated (save perhaps at home, and the less said of that the better ) to admire his choice, nor to think of him as a defender of the Constitution rather than a traitor to it, which he was, and which any officer who took part in a coup attempt would be. IOW, no officer is going to say, it must be an honorable course if Lee followed it. Still less will any be stupid enough to say, it must be a lawful course.

 

[Saint Peter]

Oh shut up. Those officers were given the choice to fight for their states or for the Union. The whole god damn South felt the way Lee and those officers felt or there would have been no war. You cannot judge those men outside the context of their time by applying today's morality to their actions. You may remember Lee was not tried for treason.

Lee did not face treason charges because his men would not testify against him and such a trial would have caused a wider division between north and south.

He should have faced a court and been held accountable for his treasonous acts.

The same is true for all those involved in this latest revolt. If you do not like American vote in a person to change it or get out.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Ya know Petey, that argument always comes up. And if the full might of the military were let loose on the populace (and there is the question about whether they'd even obey that order), there is no doubt that they'd win.

Look, you need to consider the facts:

1. Most of the general public support the Obama Administration.

2. The military is more conservative in its makeup; which does not mean the troops or officers oppose the Admin, only that they are likelier than the general public to do so.

3. Therefore, if there is a military revolt against the Administration . . . the troops' main enemies will be the general public.

4. And the troops, whatever might be their politics, might or might not obey orders to fire on civilian crowds. The 1991 coup in the Soviet Union failed because the troops wouldn't.

5. If they don't fire, the coup fails.

6. If they do, there's blood in the streets and a situation where it's the military vs. we the people.

7. So, what's the point of even trying? How can either scenario end well?

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

These judgments will be made by the individual in private. I can tell you that a majority of combat officers (not bureaucrats in uniform) admire Lee, Jackson, Forrest, etc., for their military prowess, politics doesn't really have much to do with it.

It does if they have to make a decision whether to join in a coup or not.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Total bullshit. In a year a majority of Americans will not be supportiing the administration, their numbers are falling as we speak.

If the majority of Americans come around to opposing the Admin, that is still very, very far from supporting a military coup. You're insane if you think you'll live to see that scenario. A military coup in America will never be a popular thing and will never succeed without opening fire on the crowds.