pirated movies/games is it wrong

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Sexy girl -- see my above post about CHOICE. The question about whether or not to make your music available to millions of people for free isn't Napster's to make. It's the artist's choice. Naptser did not make that option available to thousands of artists.

The artist creates. And until the artist signs away his rights HE gets to decide when a million people can get his stuff for free. Napster can't make the decision for him.

 

[DriveSouth]

DCL's right -

Oh yeah, nearly forgot -
CDs are $15.00, Cassette Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[sexy-girl]

your post about choice wasnt there when i posted ... i happen to agree with you about that and perhaps that does make it morally wrong ... but another thing is that its very rare the artist would have the choice anyway it would be the record label so even if the artist wanted it on napster the record label could say no


also the fact remains there can be no choice ... music is pirited and they cant stop it at the moment ... is it morally wrong to take advantage of that .. i guess what your saying is it is wrong ... what the record companys should of done is make there own version of napster it would perhaps mean they could control that one anyway


Drivesouth you didnt answer me ... do you not think napster would be a good idea for your band since it would allow many people to hear your music and perhaps decide to buy your cd's if they enjoyed the mp3's ... i'll give you an example if for intense i could download your mp3 right now i would ... and if i liked it i would buy your cd

 

[DriveSouth]

-girl

How many should we give away before I pay for the 1000 we bought?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

its very rare the artist would have the choice anyway it would be the record label so even if the artist wanted it on napster the record label could say no

Okay, before I diagram that sentence let me remind you that in such a case the artist has already signed away some of his rights to the property to the Record Company, and this is perfectly legal.

And, of course, the fact that the Record Companies insist on such good deals for them and such crappy deals for artists is why Napster was able to make any argument at all about wider access.

But....

The REASON record companies are so powerful has a great deal to do with how much artists are willing to give up their rights. Young artists do not band together into the proper unions, and refuse to treat their business like a BUSINESS, so they get taken advantage of. They make their little Mephistopholean deals and ignore the fine print because they're too busy "creating" to take band together and demand better contracts.

This is a wildy generalized view of the situation, (Record companies make it VERY hard not to play ball) but it's true of all artists. Actors, for example, are still PAYING to get casting directors to see them in workshops, which is clearly unethical (see www.dontpayforit.com). If the actors got together and refused to pay for showcases, casting directors would be forced to see actors for free in their offices -- which is what they're SUPPOSED to do.

So the Record Companies are evil, granted, but they're allowed to be evil because artists give them that power. Letting Napster makes your creation avialable to millions of people for free on the spurious promise of "higher sales" is just another way for artists to ignore the business side of their business and get taken advantage of.

 

[sexy-girl]

it doesnt cost you anything to have mp3's or to make them ... if you "give away" 1 million mp3's from people that download your music and 10% of the people like your music enough to buy your cd then you've sold 100,000 cds ... if people download your mp3's and dislike them then you havent lost anything because they wouldnt of bought your cd anyway


and i fully agree with you DCL about some of the contracts artists are forced to sign ... and i know they should be smarter about it but its hardly fair to blame an artist for wanting to sign a record deal and not caring so much about the content of it ... after all thats every artists dream to have a record deal and often if they have enough promise they will get some cash/gifts right away not realising that they've signed away all the rights to the material that they create

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

If he WANTS to do that, and a lot of bands do, he can do that. It's not a good game plan for everyone, but for some people it's okay. The point we're pressing is that it's HIS choice to do, not Napster's, and this isn't a small point.

 

[DriveSouth]

-girl

Do you frequently go out and purchase something you have just gotten for free?

Oh yeah, nearly forgot -
CDs are $15.00, Cassette Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[Woodsycouple]

The way I see it is if I have a $5000 cad program, the maker of said software isn't losing any money on it due to me. I would have never paid $5000 for it in the first place. They aren't losing a sale to me.
Same as office pro, I wouldn't have paid $500 for it. No way in hell.

I'm a really big Chris Ledoux fan. I was thinkin about how it would effect him by downloading mp3's. The way the corrupt music industry works, he'd be better off if I sent him $40 cash rather than going out and buying every CD that he has made.

I don't remember what group it was, but a few years ago there was a new group that released a hugely popular CD, they made a whoppin $35,000 to split between the 4 of them.

Hootie and the blowfish got sumthin like $50,000 for their first album.

Why do you think these guys have to tour so hard?? It's the only way they can make money.

 

[DriveSouth]

Sounds Good Woody

They are evil and corrupt so I can and will be too?

oh yeah, nearly forgot -

CDs are $15.00, Cassettes Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[sexy-girl]

lol i agree DCL calm down hehe ... i think what would be perfect is if record companys got together to have an alternative to napster for artists the would like there music to beable to be download like that ... then they could have a choice


at the moment there is no choice ... music is pirited and theres nothing artists can do about it and yes your right thats probably wrong

and YES i do frequently buy cds that i have download via napster if i like it ... on napster its rare that you download a whole album ... and plus listening to an mp3 on the computer isnt the same as listening to a cd in a car or on a hi fi ... ive downloaded about 8 full albums ive bought ALL of those .. ive downloaded about 200 songs and ive bought 80% of those too ... im not argueing with you at all Drivesouth but im trying to give you some information from my viewpoint that you might not have considored before


just for example Drivesouth im not going to buy your cd/tape because i dont know what type of music you play if its any good if it will appeal to me ... i cant see you play because im in the uk its doubtful im going to hear you on the radio being your in the us again ... so how can i listen to your music ... an mp3 would be a good way ... and after i listened to it if i did enjoy it i would buy a cd

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Woodsy: You're right. And none of that is an argument for theft. It's high tech vigillantiism.

 

[DriveSouth]

-girl

And how often do you download only the 2 songs you like from a CD and compile those into a:

sexy-girl's FAVS

and keep it around and listen to it till ya can't stand it any longer?

oh yeah, nearly forgot -

CDs are $15.00, Cassettes Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[sexy-girl]

never i dont have any mp3's burnt onto cds ... but my point is if people do that and had these "favs" then surely they would be intrested enough to buy your album too ... i own about 200 cds all paid for ... i like music alot and listen to it alot ... from me i dont think anyone has lost any money beacuse of mp3's ive downloaded ... infact ive bought a number of albums i wouldnt of because i listened to them on mp3 first

 

[DriveSouth]

-girl

I've got no surveys or fancy numbers to support this, but I feel you're the exception to the rule. Like you, I own hundreds of CDs but can count on both hands the friends I have who are the same. This isn't an accusation against you, but the many many who'd just as soon copy. I have a brother like that. He makes CDs for the car, has a second harddrive solely for mp3s and it's connected to his home stereo -

283 oldies on one CD he boast!


oh yeah, nearly forgot -

CDs are $15.00, Cassettes Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[nasty]

I HAVE to put in my pov

Napster is just wrong. They have just made it easier for people to "personalize" their CD's. If you REALLY like an artist, BUY THE CD. Make them happy to know they have a fan that cares about their success. Don't give me the argument about, "What if I go home, and I don't like a few songs." LISTEN to it BEFORE you buy it. You CAN do that know. Also, I get people saying that when they went on Napster, they found an artist they never heard of. I still think Napster is wrong. They just MAKE IT TOO EASY TO PIRATE A SONG!!!!!!! If these "smaller" artists made it big, you'd hear them on the radio. And if you like their stuff, go out and get the CD. If they didn't ever make it big, well, at the risk of sounding like a prick, their lose. I TRULY am sorry if I DID sound the a prick, or offended people.

 

[sexy-girl]

yes i agree fully that theres alot of people that abuse mp3's and only download mp3's ... but would these people have bought cds anyway ? ... its not a loss if they wouldnt of paid for it anyway ... im sure its very hard for an up and coming band to sell any cds other then from people that see them play live ... what have you got to lose ? .. your brother has 283 oldies on one cd ... but if napster didnt exsist would he have bought 283 cds to have those oldies

 

[DriveSouth]

-girl

Would the bank robber have a quarter mil without people depositing there $ into the bank?

Seems to me that today's money would be in a system that would allow you into a music store/outlet/website, sit down and enter the songs you want and have a custom CD burned for you on the spot, paying for each song individually as you checkout.

oh yeah, nearly forgot -

CDs are $15.00, Cassettes Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[nasty]

im sure its very hard for an up and coming band to sell any cds other then from people that see them play live ... what have you got to lose ? .. Sorry sexy-girl, but I have to disagree with that statement. You know I love you, but my favorite singer sold more than a million copies of her debut CD. I bought my copy before I even saw her for the 1st time live. That's the last I should say, I don't want to get into a debate with you, bubbe. You seem like a very sweet person. Sorry, bubbe's from "Snatch."

 

[sexy-girl]

you both disagree with me and thats fine i'll add one more thing though im sure your fav artist had a record deal nasty and all the promotional power that gos with that


Drivesouth doesnt have one so its slightly different ... we're not talking about what things might happen ... just if its worth taking advantage of what exsists at the moment but anyway im not trying to change your mind i just was trying to offer you some information you might not of considored ... good luck drivesouth with your music i hope you do well

 

[DriveSouth]

Don't you recognize shameless self promotion?

*wink*

oh yeah, nearly forgot -

CDs are $15.00, Cassettes Tapes are $10.00

email orders only please.

 

[nasty]

GOOD LUCK!!!!

I hope things all go well with you. Perhaps I'll see your CD on the shelves soon. You got me, sexy-girl, she had a deal. I wasn't paying close enough to the conversation with Drivesouth, I guess.