Phobias and BDSM

[Phirefly]

This is a strange topic, I know.

I've been sitting here in Lansing, MI all day watching very dangerous storms blaze through Chicago and head straight for me. It's still about an hour until it gets here, and I've sat here with the urge to throw up for the last three hours. Why, oh why, am I so terrified of thunderstorms? I hate it so much. It literally interferes with my life.

Just as idle speculation, I've been sitting here and wondering if a D/s relationship could be used to help someone get over a phobia. Could a sub's devotion to their master be strong enough that she/he could overcome their basest fears if the Dom worked with it? Or maybe even the feeling of such a safe presence of a Dom could help. Possibly just distraction - positive reinforcement - every time there's a thunderstorm the sub gets something special. Heh.

It's all just idle speculation, trying to keep my mind off the rotation-producing storm that will be here in an hour. But has anyone else thought about this? Or maybe even experienced help in getting over a phobia?

*goes back to her corner and huddles*

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure, honestly. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

I think it depends on the severity of the phobia. I've got a bachelor's in psychology, and I've trained horses for years, but I wouldn't dream of trying to help someone with anything more than a minor fear. Most Doms just don't have the proper training, subs' devotion notwithstanding. You can screw someone up a lot faster than you can fix 'em if you don't know what you're doing. Furthermore, even if said Dom has PhD in psychology or an MD with a concentration in psychiatry, it's not exactly ethical to "work" on people you're close to.

For example, I'm terrified of both fire and heights. I can sort of control my fire phobia, so I'd let B. do fireplay on me as long as I wasn't restrained. On the other hand, I have absolutely no control over my fear of heights, so neither of us have any interest in taking me mountain climbing.

Did that answer your question at all? LOL.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I think it would depend on the specific phobia and the volition of it . In past relationships I have been guided to face things that would normally throw me into a state of panic or at least feeling compromised. I survived them . It's quite possible the potential to do on my own reconnaissance always existed , perhaps a sense of bravado prevails in the context of by failing yourself you fail your dominant.

I do recall a very specific situation that put me well out of my league of previous experience and terrified me at several levels . I had to conclude the business 'alone', I was wearing a locket with my partners hair and a piece of his tartan sealed in it. Small amount of focus on the amulet was distraction enough to see things 'concluded'. At least it served to get from the point of feeling like I was going to be sick/pass out to actually moving forward and presenting normally.

Interesting topic.......

Hope you're okay Phirefly . Fu and I actually chatted earlier , we both like storms. I think they are hawt , joked that they are 'domly'......lol

 

[Phirefly]

That's my problem really.. if I could just get over the nausea and trembling that comes TWO HOURS before a storm even arrives... I'd be so much better. If only I was only afraid for the duration of the storm - they're usually fast, and many times they never show up at all, even though they are forecasted.

My other minor phobia is flying, although I never let it stop me from going places. One time, when I was 16, I was flying alone and we ran into a big thunderstorm over Lake Erie. We circled in the storm for an hour and I don't know if I've ever been more afraid. How did I survive without going crazy? By singing in my head, over and over "Hold My Hand" by the Thompson Brothers. No clue why that song, but it saved my sanity for that hour.

I think that's all I need - a FOCUS. I think, for me, a Dom could find many ways to help me focus. And if not, well He sure could just be reassuring and supportive of my fear. But any friend or lover can do that... doesn't at all need to be in the D/s context. And for Bunny's comment... well, if I say "mess with my head, dammit" then maybe it'll be more ethical! *grins*

Storm eta: 20 minutes.
Phirefly's location: In her bathroom, door shut, both cats enticed in with treats... both of which who are now spending time playing in the tub... at least I have my cats... which is ALMOST as good as a man. Hehe

 

[jennyleigh]

i wish i could be with you, if only to be scared together.

for me, if my Master were with me during a storm, it would help greatly. but He is also my lover and best friend and companion. my true four leaf clover. i really think without Him having to do anything special, if i were more focused on His pleasure, it would decrease my awareness of time and space and the oncomming storm.

be safe, as i have seen this one on the news (was watching cleveland ohio news) have a cell phone and radio ready. *hugs*

pet your kitties.... the ones playing in the tub, and the... other one... might get your mind off of it?

 

[FurryFury]

I'm not sure that one should expect a Dom to do therapy for them unless said person is actually equipped (with education and experience in therapy), to do so.

OTOH, I'm sure quite a few subs have felt helped by a Dom. In fact recently there was a thread here about Dom's saving subs lives.

That's a hellva lot to put on another person, IMO, any other person.

Wow.

Fury

 

[Phirefly]

Ah, well, I wouldn't DEMAND it of someone, of course not. That is a lot to put on a person, and I wouldn't want someone I loved to feel like they failed if my phobia didn't get better, because, well... let's face it, a phobia is a phobia and it's pretty much uncontrollable.

I probably just needed to post something to distract myself, but I appreciate your guys' comments!

 

[FurryFury]

Ah, well, I wouldn't DEMAND it of someone, of course not. That is a lot to put on a person, and I wouldn't want someone I loved to feel like they failed if my phobia didn't get better, because, well... let's face it, a phobia is a phobia and it's pretty much uncontrollable.

I probably just needed to post something to distract myself, but I appreciate your guys' comments!

I wasn't trying to be harsh but it does sound like a LOT to put on another person.

Lot's of people, guys in particular, easily fall into the "white knight" syndrome. That can be a terrible thing for both parties.

I'm sorry about your worries. I truly am.

*HUG*

Distraction is good at times like these.

I freak out about hurricanes and tornadoes because they screw up my life from time to time and I know some who have died in such horrible storms.

My husband watches the weather. If he is home I do not because it freaks me out so bad.

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Nothing short of an act of God would get me up high in anything without me freaking out. I nearly threw up when I had to ride the tram, and the tram driver was asking if I was going to pass out.

On the other hand, the only reason I go to the dentist is cause K makes me. So I gotta agree with BiBunny, depends on the severity of the phobia.

 

[neonflux]

I feel so ambivalent about this question.

On the one hand, The New Topping Book has a whole chapter on deep play, which I think can have the side benefit of being therapeutic. I do know of people who have been helped with experiences as difficult as ongoing prejudice/discrimination. Last year, when I was completely falling apart, but "too healthy" to qualify for more than once-a-month therapy at Kaiser (read, not suicidal and not substance-addicted), a BDSM cleansing was the one thing that helped me to stabilize and continue functioning. But, I worked with a good friend who was experienced in same to structure and set up expectations for the experience.

On the other hand, I found myself agreeing with BiBunny (edited):

...I think it depends on the severity of the phobia. I've got a bachelor's in psychology, and I've trained horses for years, but I wouldn't dream of trying to help someone with anything more than a minor fear. Most Doms just don't have the proper training, subs' devotion notwithstanding. You can screw someone up a lot faster than you can fix 'em if you don't know what you're doing. Furthermore, even if said Dom has PhD in psychology or an MD with a concentration in psychiatry, it's not exactly ethical to "work" on people you're close to.

On another note, how are you doing? Sending big {{{{{{Phirefly}}}}}} your way.

Neon

 

[museofdragon]

Dragon got me over my fear of flying.

There was a visa snafu that left him stranded in Scotland. The only way i was able to get to him, was to get on a plane.

Now me getting on a plane before had never been successful. i used to get nauseous when i would get within sight of an airport. Dragon sent me a lock of his hair and one of his t-shirts to wear. He also gave me an assignment of writing down every thought in my head during the flight. i was still nervous and queasy, but i was able to not disrupt the flight (which i have done in the past -- even causing an emergency landing once ~~blushing~~)

All that being said, the minute i saw him in the airport in Edinburgh, i crumpled into a sobbing heap in a fetal postion. But ever since then, i have been able to fly -- i am still not the happiest camper on the plane, but i at least can get where i need to go on a plane when necessary.

 

[Toa_lin]

okay, my two cents.

I've had SOME experience with this, and it IS possible to help with certain phobias..... but depends on what started them.

A.K.A. some people have always been afraid of teh dark, adn always will, wiht no real explanation why. Something that's always been I DON'T think can be fixed by a Dom, unless it's a minor phobia.

But Say, a girl got raped at sunset, adn ever sicne was always scared of it..... With the help of a Dom, or just a luving boy-friend they CAN get past it, for the msot part, sometiems they might have little regressions due to a flash-back or something, but they CAN get past it. (Am a walking talking proof that us guys CAN help our girls in that sort of situation)


So put simply, if it's always been, and is strong, the mind is too complex to try and force it not to be afraid of it anymore, because that can simply make things worse. If There was a time the fear wasn't there, and then it was brought about, it CAN be back-tracked to no-more fear, with patience luv, and understanding.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm not sure that one should expect a Dom to do therapy for them unless said person is actually equipped (with education and experience in therapy), to do so.

OTOH, I'm sure quite a few subs have felt helped by a Dom. In fact recently there was a thread here about Dom's saving subs lives.

That's a hellva lot to put on another person, IMO, any other person.

Wow.

Fury

i saw you made the same comment in the other thread. yes, these issues would be a lot for a submissive to "put" on another person, however these issues are not burdens being heaped on the Dominant's back, rather many Dominants willingly and forcefully take these issues on because for them it is part of the control and power dynamic. to take someone broken and then guide, train, condition and mold them into someone whole, beautiful and priceless is heady rush for some, and for others, like my Master, it's just a natural part of dominating.

to the OP, i've heard of Masters helping their sub or slave to overcome phobias before, sometimes thru force, sometimes thru gentle conditioning. like others have said i think it would just depend on the severity of the phobia, as well as the nature/mind of the submissive. i have a handful of phobias...driving, slugs, crowds. but my Master has never expressed any desire or intent to cure me of them...he likes anything that makes me more vulnerable.

 

[FurryFury]

i saw you made the same comment in the other thread. yes, these issues would be a lot for a submissive to "put" on another person, however these issues are not burdens being heaped on the Dominant's back, rather many Dominants willingly and forcefully take these issues on because for them it is part of the control and power dynamic. to take someone broken and then guide, train, condition and mold them into someone whole, beautiful and priceless is heady rush for some, and for others, like my Master, it's just a natural part of dominating.

to the OP, i've heard of Masters helping their sub or slave to overcome phobias before, sometimes thru force, sometimes thru gentle conditioning. like others have said i think it would just depend on the severity of the phobia, as well as the nature/mind of the submissive. i have a handful of phobias...driving, slugs, crowds. but my Master has never expressed any desire or intent to cure me of them...he likes anything that makes me more vulnerable.

I've had people try to put me in that position. I guess that's why it pushes my buttons.

IMO, if you and here are happy, in the end, then it's all good.

Fury

 

[Phirefly]

Bah. The storm didn't produce nearly a third of much as was expected. That's *always* what happens when I watch a storm grow and grow.. ten minutes before it hits me it just... poof! Disappears.

My thunderstorm phobia started when I was 9 years old. I had never seen a thunderstorm before, as I spent the first 9 years of my life in San Diego during a drought. Earthquakes, I've seen (and I'm not afraid of). I remember tsunami warnings. But no thunderstorms. We were up at my grandparent's cottage on Lake Michigan and one of those MONSTROUS lake storms built up over the lake and came sweeping in. Grandpa had to board up the cottage, we lost power, there were 80mph+ gusts and trees fell (one big branch fell right onto our car!) I wish I could've been in awe of it, as a little curious kid, but it terrified me. Ever since, I've been scared.

I think most of my phobia is based around tornadic possibility, even though I've never even been close to being in a tornado. And the physiological phobia - the actual thing that makes all those creepy physical reactions occur - sweating, clammy hands, nausea, etc. Thunder. Not lightning, not wind. The dumbest, most stupidest and HARMLESS thing in a storm. Yep, thunder.

But I think I could be worked through it. I've gotten better. I just don't do well when a) I'm completely alone (like today) or b) if a big storm comes in the middle of the night - anytime between Midnight and 5.

Anyways, I do appreciate the hugs, and the comments. Phobias are a fascinating thing. There should be a way to condition me to get turned on by fear - then I'd *really* be set in a thunderstorm

 

[FurryFury]

I understand. That is part of what makes me so nuts about storms. That happens most of the time. Thank goodness but damn it's frustrating.

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Dragon got me over my fear of flying.

There was a visa snafu that left him stranded in Scotland. The only way i was able to get to him, was to get on a plane.

Now me getting on a plane before had never been successful. i used to get nauseous when i would get within sight of an airport. Dragon sent me a lock of his hair and one of his t-shirts to wear. He also gave me an assignment of writing down every thought in my head during the flight. i was still nervous and queasy, but i was able to not disrupt the flight (which i have done in the past -- even causing an emergency landing once ~~blushing~~)

All that being said, the minute i saw him in the airport in Edinburgh, i crumpled into a sobbing heap in a fetal postion. But ever since then, i have been able to fly -- i am still not the happiest camper on the plane, but i at least can get where i need to go on a plane when necessary.

I occasionally have had to fly - note I'm terrified of heights. I made it through the flights with drugs. The last time I flew I had one person say 'you aren't driving when you get there, are you'? lol

 

[graceanne]

TMI

 

[JFJ_sub]

i think it depends on the situation and how deep it goes psychologically. In my eating disorder (yes i know not exactly a "phobia"), most people in my experience do not understand my illness for lack of a better word, and think it is simply a matter of saying well just eat. It *isn't* that simple. my current partner has helped me so much and has progressed to the point that 2 days ago we were on the phone, told him my family was getting together for dinner and i didn't want to go because my family would be expecting me to eat. i don't like eating, don't like eating in front of others, and am terrified of situations where i am forced to eat due to pressure/expectations from others. He told me i had to go and i had to eat, no exceptions. i did not respond at first, was just quiet. He said do you want to be in trouble with me? His tone, his words-that was all it took. i knew i was on the verge of displeasing him. i have become very dependent on him in that way. i get the shakes a lot and when he is here all it takes is that look from him and i know he isn't happy with me and i will eat an Atkins bar or drink an Atkins shake. i don't know if that dependency on him is healthy or right or wrong, but he has helped me so much in this way. He hasn't "cured" it. He can not. my eating disorder will always be there, even if not in a current flair, but he helps me when i need it, has made it clear i can reach out to him for help and i am safe in doing so. As i said in a previous post, there have been days i have text him and said please tell me to eat something today because i don't have the strength to do it on my own. my current flair has set me back almost 15 lbs. since he has been gone this time.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

...

My thunderstorm phobia started when I was 9 years old. I had never seen a thunderstorm before, as I spent the first 9 years of my life in San Diego during a drought. Earthquakes, I've seen (and I'm not afraid of). I remember tsunami warnings. But no thunderstorms. We were up at my grandparent's cottage on Lake Michigan and one of those MONSTROUS lake storms built up over the lake and came sweeping in. Grandpa had to board up the cottage, we lost power, there were 80mph+ gusts and trees fell (one big branch fell right onto our car!) I wish I could've been in awe of it, as a little curious kid, but it terrified me. Ever since, I've been scared.
...
Anyways, I do appreciate the hugs, and the comments. Phobias are a fascinating thing. There should be a way to condition me to get turned on by fear - then I'd *really* be set in a thunderstorm

This one would definitely be "fixable". It's a confrontable fear, an exposable fear, and one that you can be conditioned to associate with peace and serenity... Some of this you can do on your own, some you could do with a professional counsellor.

I had a similar fear at one time, but my father helped me over the fear. He would sit with me in our basement (house was on a hill, basement actually was a garage and opened on the lower portion of the hill under the house) and hold me while we watched the storms approach. I was still a child at the time, but his calm manner, the joy he felt at the wind and rain, the raw power of Nature in action slowly carried over into me.

When I was in college, I also got several vinyl albums called Naturescapes or something like that (have some CD's now from the In Harmony with Nature series that combine nature sounds with classical music) that were recordings of natural environments. Things like a city during a thunderstorm, surf and seagulls at the beach, rain forest during a rain storm, etc... I often fell asleep to the sound of thunder and falling rain.

Still, when a lightning bolt hits close by and that thunderclap goes BLAM and rocks my world, I can panic and run around like a chicken with it's head cut off for a few minutes. *chuckles and shrugs* I won't say I'm "cured" by any stretch of the imagination but normally it isn't a problem. Hey, subs aren't the only ones who have to deal!

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Overcoming phobias requires a series of sessions in which systematic desensitization is used to combat the undesired response to a stimuli or the phobia.
This is usually done by subjecting the individual in small doses to that which elicits the fear and each exposure is followed with deep breathing and/or other relaxation techniques. This can take days, weeks or even years depending on how ingrained the phobia is.

This method has been used to help people overcome fear of flying, fear of tight spaces or claustrophobia fear of injections, what have you. Even something which most of us would think insignificant, like leaving the house can be a major traumatizing episode for those with that particular phobia or agoraphobia.

I will admit that I did not read the thread in its entirety and hope I haven't duplicated too much of what others have already said. and if I have just consider it another of the repetitive sessions required to combat phobias.

Oh and just for the record I love the power of nature. I have driven through hurricanes, watched for tornadoes and walked the beach in a wind storm that pitted the windshield of my friends car.

That's just me

d

Or maybe even experienced help in getting over a phobia?

*goes back to her corner and huddles*

 

[sigsauerprinces]

I sympathize with your fear of storms.. I could have easily had a storm phobia if not for having an amazing grandmother. I was a little kid and a huge storm blew in - dark purple clouds, huge gusts of wind - it started thundering, lots of lightning, and I got scared and started crying. My grandmother called me over to the window and told me to look out, which I did, relunctantly. The wind was blowing the birch trees so hard that they looked like they were growing sideways, and the rain was pouring, lightning struck again, and I started to cry again, and then my grandma said

"look at the trees, honey. See how beautiful they are, bending in the wind? Look at the raindrops trickling down the windowpane...look how dark the sky is, and how the lightning lights everything up so brightly.. isn't it beautiful?"

and somehow my feelings changed from extreme fear, to wonder and curiosity. I gazed out the window while sitting on her lap, and I wasn't afraid anymore. Ever since then, I've loved thunderstorms, and I'm so grateful to her for being so wise, and knowing what to say to a scared little girl.

I can relate to the phobia bit tho. I have a spider phobia. I've wondered before if having a Dom work on it with me would help. I think it might, due to my intense desire to please a Dom (when I have one, which I don't right now). On the other hand, my fear is so strong, I really don't know that it'll ever be cured. Last summer I saw a HUGE black spider on my wall - a good four inches wide with legs - and I almost fainted. I wouldn't even faint if someone was trying to break in with a gun, but the spider - thank god a friend of mine was here with me, and killed it for me. I don't like killing things, but it's kill the spider, or sleep in the other room for weeks cos I'm scared it's gonna crawl on me.

Good luck with your storm phobia. Maybe next time one comes along, try to look out the window and think about how beautiful it is

 

[myinnerslut]

i love storms, so i cannot relate to your specific phobia. personally, i am terrified (beyond frightened, scared, panicked, or any reasonable reaction) to scary things: movies, books, plays, huanted houses, music, commercials even. i had a childhood trauma that i have never been able to get over. there is no presence on earth that can get me to sit through a scary movie (even going to see a movie in theaters used to be terrifying becuase you can hear the sounds of the movies as you walk past the doorway to that particular film and there is always at least one scary movie playing) and i would safeword before the opening credits came on if a dom ever tried. some things just cant be fixed, but ive found that A, my friends, or even my little brother, have all been able to calm me out a a frenzy after ive accidenly seen or heard something scary.

 

[graceanne]

i love storms, so i cannot relate to your specific phobia. personally, i am terrified (beyond frightened, scared, panicked, or any reasonable reaction) to scary things: movies, books, plays, huanted houses, music, commercials even. i had a childhood trauma that i have never been able to get over. there is no presence on earth that can get me to sit through a scary movie (even going to see a movie in theaters used to be terrifying becuase you can hear the sounds of the movies as you walk past the doorway to that particular film and there is always at least one scary movie playing) and i would safeword before the opening credits came on if a dom ever tried. some things just cant be fixed, but ive found that A, my friends, or even my little brother, have all been able to calm me out a a frenzy after ive accidenly seen or heard something scary.

I was four when my babysitter let me watch my first scary movie. I was already afraid of the dark - my mom was PISSED at my babysitter. I can't watch anything even remotely scary. When K watches the LOR movies I'll be in the kitchen, ears plugged, at regular intervals. The music is just as scary!

 

[FurryFury]

I enjoy watching storms, particularly those with lightning.

What I do not enjoy is following the predictions and progress of tornadoes and hurricanes that might actually kill people I care about. That is what drives me NUTS.

Oh and if the power gets knocked out, I hate that as well.

Fury