Perversions, Perversions, Perversions...

[VerbalAbuse]

I reckon a lot of authors write about things they are NOT interested in in real life.

Example: I imagine that although there are some incest writers that have a real life interest in incest, most of those that write incest are not into actual incest.

Likewise, I feel inclined to write about stuff that would not interest me in real life.

I'm talking about kinks and perversions, of course.

Any intelligent or less than intelligent thoughts about this?

 

[StillStunned]

My personal tastes are entirely vanilla: just me and my redhead, that's all I want. But it doesn't make for very interesting stories.

I wrote a brother/sister story to tap into the I/T readership. It was quite a success (among the most read stories over the past 12 months), but I felt like a bit of a sell-out. Even so, I wrote a follow-up for the Winter Holiday contest, and by then I'd become intrigued by Sal, the sister character. Right now I'm working on a fifth instalment, and the whole incest thing has faded to be background for me. It's all about Sal.

I have a creepy obsessive voyeur story. Not saying I don't like watching, but not as obsessively as the narrator in that story.

I also wrote a mother/child story as a 2P POV challenge to myself. Not because of the fetish, but because the story needed a topic with a "forbidden" aspect.

Another story that I wrote in 1P present tense needed a twist to raise the story to the next level, so I introduced a trans woman. Again, it was a case of the medium requiring something more than straightforward sex. Also, even if it's not my "thing", I still think it's a totally hot story.

So if I have an intelligent thought on the matter, it's that different themes (to avoid using the word "kink") let me do things as a writer that I couldn't do if I limited myself to my own personal sexual preferences.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I introduced a trans woman.

I think you're gay.

 

[AchtungNight]

I personally write about various slutty celebrities and original characters, a few of whom are based on me and people I know. They all live in an alternate universe that is not reality. I make that clear in every one of my stories. As far as specific perversions that aren't my thing IRL...

- I've never used a vibrator or dildo, though I have featured characters fooling around with them. Might be fun to use such toys, but I have yet to find an interested partner. The same is true of BDSM, anal play, and tit fucking. I'm pretty sure I'm not into the first two, but I've never been asked about them either. Never been in a polyamorous relationship either, though I have decided I'd probably be okay with it if I ever found one or more partners willing to consider the idea. I have read about such things and written about them also, just never done them in real life. My avatar character in my stories is a bit more experienced.

- I'm a man and I've written about lesbian porn and polyamory, also many times from the female perspective.

- I'm not into non-consensual stuff at all, though again, I have written about it. I'm not a fan of excessive drug or alcohol use either, though I have written about victims of such activity and their abusers.

- I'm completely straight IRL, but have included gay and bi male characters in my stories. Mostly for solidarity, I do have a gay brother and other queer friends. I also have included a gender-fluid Faerie Alien Hybrid in my stories. I have known trans women and flirted with them, but never got past platonic friendship. I admit to being a fan of transgender celebrities, though I have yet to feature any as onscreen characters in my works. Same for crossdressers- I have yet to ever meet any of those.

- I'm okay with same-generation (sibling and cousin incest). I'm also okay with polyamorous and polysexual relationships, long as everything is consensual, not harmful, and openly communicated on a need to know basis. I will gladly debate anyone who wishes to argue with me that such things are wrong. I don't intend to change my beliefs either. I would not seriously consider any incestuous behavior IRL- none of my family are interested and I don't wish to threaten them by bringing it up- but I will gladly read about such things and let myself get turned on by them. As for polyamory, I have flirted with it but never done it. My wife was aware of my interest in it when we were married, but we never seriously discussed it and I was too committed to her to approach anyone else beyond casual flirting right up until she told me she wanted to call it quits. Probably will remain the same with any women I date in the future, though I will always be a proud ethical slut.

- I'm strongly in favor of safe sex and have always used condoms, not penetrated, or pulled out in real life. My stories don't always feature this attitude, but most do.

- Regarding the characters based on real people in my stories, I either operate under parody and satire as protected speech, I have consent in a few cases, or I have altered the character enough to not make it the same person. I have yet to receive lasting challenge on this by appropriate complainers (the offended person or an agent speaking on their direct behalf) in all my writing days. I'm not going to sort out the characters in my work as completely original or otherwise here- it would take too long. I have only gotten close to a couple of the celebrities I've depicted in real life- I saw Katie Holmes on Broadway and cheered for her, but did not meet her and I had the chance to meet Alicia Witt at a concert where she sent me a free VIP invite after canceling a larger planned event but turned it down. Too many other fans mobbing her at the autograph table, so I walked away rather than wait till I could get her attention. It was also during the pandemic and I never received an explanation for the invite. She may not have been aware of my fanfics, which were all at least ten years old at the time. I certainly didn't intend to bring them up if we did meet. It could have been a random fan drawing or she may have not sold many tickets and thus scaled back the event... I am happy having no idea. I know celebrities self google, but having one tell me they're aware of my parodying them in stories has yet to happen. I'm also aware Jerry Falwell and Larry Flynt were friends IRL despite having that in their past, and aware of shows like SNL and Simpsons where celebs are okay with being parodied, so my personal ethics allow it. But I do not stalk women- if I sense my flirting is not welcome to them, I cease it and apologize. Nor do I ever plan to stalk a woman IRL- there are laws against such things. That includes celebrities. People who read my stories should also note that all the sex in them involving celebrities is consensual in every case. Kathleen Ansley is a fictional character, same for every other would-be rapist I have depicted. I feature such characters as either a horror or cautionary tale. Their victims are also fictional characters in most cases. Again, I'm not going to take the time to sort everyone out.

- Yes, I include things I'm not into for attention. It's also a radical therapy intended to help calm my histrionic bipolar narcissism- a lot of artists have similar disorders. You may react to this as you will. I have made peace with my mental health long ago and sworn off many behaviors that were worse such as gaslighting and criminal mischief. Perhaps I will improve further in due time. I really was the honor graduate of a police academy at one point, and I have saved lives, so I'm not all bad. Heh.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I reckon a lot of authors write about things they are NOT interested in in real life.

Example: I imagine that although there are some incest writers that have a real life interest in incest, most of those that write incest are not into actual incest.

Likewise, I feel inclined to write about stuff that would not interest me in real life.

I'm talking about kinks and perversions, of course.

Any intelligent or less than intelligent thoughts about this?

Why do people write incest, though...
It makes sense that most of the writers here aren't into incest in real life, but where does the motivation come from? Is it the alluring nature of taboo? Is it just because those stories are so popular?

I mean, I write mostly what I am turned on by. I write about femdom, foot fetish, and so on, and while I wouldn't do all of the things I describe in real life, some of the sexual parts of it I would definitely do. That is why non-commercial incest writers baffle me to a degree, I must say.

 

[StillStunned]

Why do people write incest, though...
It makes sense that most of the writers here aren't into incest in real life, but where does the motivation come from? Is it the alluring nature of taboo? Is it just because those stories are so popular?

I mean, I write mostly what I am turned on by. I write about femdom, foot fetish, and so on, and while I wouldn't do all of the things I describe in real life, some of the sexual parts of it I would definitely do. That is why non-commercial incest writers baffle me to a degree, I must say.

Like I posted above, there's a massive readership there. If only a small percentage of them enjoy my writing enough to follow me to other categories, it's still hundreds or thousands of new readers for my SF/F stories.

You might as well ask why publish anything at all if it's not commercial. After all, what difference does it make if one person reads our stories, or a hundred thousand?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Like I posted above, there's a massive readership there. If only a small percentage of them enjoy my writing enough to follow me to other categories, it's still hundreds or thousands of new readers for my SF/F stories.

You might as well ask why publish anything at all if it's not commercial. After all, what difference does it make if one person reads our stories, or a hundred thousand?

The more people read you, the more likely it is that your story touches someone in the right way, and I guess that is something that would be important to some authors. But your reply reminded me of something that happened on the board, like a year ago, when this exact thing was being discussed, writing a story in a popular category in order to lure readers into reading your other, very much different stories. Let's just say that Simon wasn't happy about some of that discussion

 

[AlinaX]

There's a lot of eroticism in what's forbidden, and incest lends itself to that. So much of sex has lost its taboo nature over the years. Someone here was asking why 60s photos are more erotic than modern photos, and its mainly because go back a hundred years and even an unclothed ankle could shock. These days an exposed pussy has limited shock value, but incest...

There are genetic reasons why incest is bad, and that has led to legal reasons too. The power imbalance and safeguarding issues add further incentives to keep incest illegal. Our own heads tend to suppress attraction (romantic, at least) towards close family members.

So the stigma of the forbidden is there, and that excites, and even if we aren't attracted in real life to our own family, the idea of it happening in other families (in a nice, safe and fully consensual way) has an erotic thrill.

 

[StillStunned]

The more people read you, the more likely it is that your story touches someone in the right way, and I guess that is something that would be important to some authors. But your reply reminded me of something that happened on the board, like a year ago, when this exact thing was being discussed, writing a story in a popular category in order to lure readers into reading your other, very much different stories. Let's just say that Simon wasn't happy about some of that discussion

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take away from this information.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take away from this information.

Nothing much, really. Your post just jogged my memory about a previous discussion. Anyway, your reasons for writing incest are quite clear and understandable and they fall into the category of "writing something because it's popular", but I was more interested in hearing the thoughts of people who truly enjoy writing incest even if they aren't into it in real life. I mean, I am guessing there are reasons for writing incest that go beyond its popularity.

 

[AlinaX]

It's fun?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's fun?

That's not good enough, damn it!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I wrote an incest story to see if I could write a story where the key erotic parts are totally unerotic to me. And see if the readership really was as enormous as I'd been told.

Within hours it was clear that yes, 10x as many people were reading the story, several were commenting, and after 1000+ votes I guess it merits the red H it has.

Only I really don't want to write incest ever again, so the 60-odd new followers I got have mostly run away, thanks to my stories since.

Generally I don't write much I haven't done, though obviously I'm not a man (but have watched a bunch of them fucking), and I did hugely big up the details of an enema story for the Fetish crowd. But all the BSDM stories and polyamorous bisexuality are derived from experience - mine or people I know. Take loads of fragments of reality, stir around, and you have pure fiction.

Even my immortal hellbeing in Erotic Horror seems to have rather a lot of my personality...

I keep wanting to write more heterosexual stuff to get more readers, but a lot of the time, my brain isn't wired that way.

 

[nice90sguy]

When I started writing I wanted to challenge myself writing about "other people", whose sexuality and or kinks were far from my own, It's a good thing to do, because it helps you understand people who are different from you, and learn more about your own sexuality. But writing a hot story that doesn't turn you on is really difficult. If it doesn't pass the arousal test for me as the writer, it probably won't pass the mustard or the cut the muster with readers.

 

[CalebZhass]

Why do people write incest, though...
It makes sense that most of the writers here aren't into incest in real life, but where does the motivation come from? Is it the alluring nature of taboo? Is it just because those stories are so popular?

I mean, I write mostly what I am turned on by. I write about femdom, foot fetish, and so on, and while I wouldn't do all of the things I describe in real life, some of the sexual parts of it I would definitely do. That is why non-commercial incest writers baffle me to a degree, I must say.

I do believe, that a lot of people out there write about stuff they find interesting, alluring, tempting themselves.

Unless you write something on demand, anything you write will need to have a motivation that is connected to you.
I mean, let's face it. Writing is inherently fantasizing and then putting those fantasies on paper. Now you can do this for several reasons, below are just the few I can think of to be common:

• The explorer - you are genuinely interested in a subject, or at least fascinated by it and want to explore it through fantasies. Maybe because you have no means to explore it in reality, maybe because you are afraid of doing so, or maybe because doing so would be highly illegal.
• The teacher - you want to teach about a subject and write about it to show how it's good or bad, or just how you think it should be or shouldn't be done.
• The writer - you are writing something on demand, to fulfill someone else's fantasy. This actually can manifest in multiple ways:
  • straight up fan service, where you write about something that someone asked you to write about
  • chasing popularity, where you write about subjects you know are popular and can yield high number of readers / likes
  • challenging yourself to write about something "random", that you would not otherwise be interested in. You are artificially creating the demand.

Obviously, those categories above can mix and match to an extent. You can be chasing popularity and write about something that interests you or write to also teach with your work. However there has to be some sort of base motivation for you to begin writing.

If I'd have to hazard a guess, I'd say that most amateur writers fall into the explorer category for the simple reason, that they are not motivated by fame or fortune, just sharing their stories.

So why would someone be interested in something that's illegal and is that really a problem? We all have dark impulses, or at least the overwhelming majority do. There are things, that are morally, socially, legally questionable or even illegal, but they still interest or fascinate us as topics. The difference between a normal person and a psychopath lies mostly in impulse control. The ability to recognize something to be wrong, illegal, taboo and not do it, even if you are curious about it.

When we get to sexuality, it gets even more complex, as many of the "taboo" interests can probably be traced back to psychological reasons.. improper attraction towards minors, improper attraction towards family members, fantasizing about forcing yourself onto someone else, or forcing them to experience things against their will.

I'm sure if someone has such fantasies, their therapist feels like it's Christmas, as it probably gives them material to milk those wallets for months, if not years

Still, we also cannot ignore the fact, that many of today's societal standards are relatively new, and not at all uniform across the world. The age of consent for example, we all accept as the right thing, but if we look at it from a distance, it's just a variable that has changed all the time and will likely be changed again in the future. No sex between family members is a rule born out of the simple necessity of preventing all the genetic issues arising from inbreeding, but in all reality, as medicine and genetics advance, and as the power of religion over society diminishes, over time it might very well fade into obscurity. Rape is also a touchy subject. We - hopefully - all agree on the value of consent, but in all fairness, when it comes to instinctive behavior, we are evolutionary wired to take what we desire, fuck the other person and their needs or wants. (in this case literally)

I could give you an actual testimonial from myself, as I have plenty of dark fantasies, but let's just say, that would probably be a bit of an overshare. Suffice to say, that though I have no problems consuming some darker works, I'd never write about them myself, as for me, writing about it is already crossing over from "thinking" into "doing".

That's just me however, and as we can see, those subject fascinate a lot, so a lot will be writing about them.

 

[alohadave]

There's a lot of eroticism in what's forbidden, and incest lends itself to that. So much of sex has lost its taboo nature over the years. Someone here was asking why 60s photos are more erotic than modern photos, and its mainly because go back a hundred years and even an unclothed ankle could shock. These days an exposed pussy has limited shock value, but incest...

There are genetic reasons why incest is bad, and that has led to legal reasons too. The power imbalance and safeguarding issues add further incentives to keep incest illegal. Our own heads tend to suppress attraction (romantic, at least) towards close family members.

So the stigma of the forbidden is there, and that excites, and even if we aren't attracted in real life to our own family, the idea of it happening in other families (in a nice, safe and fully consensual way) has an erotic thrill.

And the forbidden aspect never goes away. It's not something that you can overcome once, you have to keep it hidden from everyone lest you be shunned and possibly face legal consequences.

That opens up opportunities for situations for your characters. Blackmail and coercion by others. The risk of arrest. A common element is fantasizing about moving away and starting a new life where they can live openly.

 

[AchtungNight]

I write about incest for "explorer" and "writer" reasons. I believe the laws against consensual incest are unjust. And per a great American civil rights leader, it's our duty to disobey unjust laws. It's not illegal in every state either. That said, once again, it's not my intention to ever engage in incest. All my female relatives in my generation are not people I feel would accept me as sexual partners, and I'm not into the older or younger generations of my family. So, I have to be content reading and writing about it. [shrug]

Some of the characters I write about engaging in incest and other deviant sexual acts may be high-functioning psychopaths. I also might be one. Not that that's always a bad thing.

 

[Omenainen]

You might as well ask why publish anything at all if it's not commercial.

And this in reverse, is it explanation enough for absolutely anything to say “it sells?” I might be old fashioned, and prissy, and probably making enough easy money in my day job, but for me the list of things I wouldn’t do for money and/or popularity is long and varied.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Some of mine is pure romantic fantasy, some an exploration of desires of people unlike myself, and others are simply letting the intrusive thoughts win.

 

[StillStunned]

And this in reverse, is it explanation enough for absolutely anything to say “it sells?” I might be old fashioned, and prissy, and probably making enough easy money in my day job, but for me the list of things I wouldn’t do for money and/or popularity is long and varied.

The question that I was answering was why anyone would write specifically a popular category if it's not for commercial purposes. I gave my reasoning: it helps to raise my profile among the Lit readership. "It sells", I suppose you might say, although "it helps to sell my other work" might be more accurate.

I too have a long list of things I won't do for money or popularity. I'm a fully rounded human being, after all, and I have principles. But writing a few I/T stories isn't one of those dealbreakers for me. That's not to say "it sells" is justification for absolutely anything, as you put it. Even when it comes to writing here on Lit, there are other categories I won't write, because I find either the subject matter or the readership's attitudes objectionable.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I don't see myself writing for the fans as a justification, unless perhaps this is practice towards writing commercially.

Why write for others, when this does not interest you and you get nothing out of it?

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I do believe, that a lot of people out there write about stuff they find interesting, alluring, tempting themselves.

Unless you write something on demand, anything you write will need to have a motivation that is connected to you.
I mean, let's face it. Writing is inherently fantasizing and then putting those fantasies on paper. Now you can do this for several reasons, below are just the few I can think of to be common:

• The explorer - you are genuinely interested in a subject, or at least fascinated by it and want to explore it through fantasies. Maybe because you have no means to explore it in reality, maybe because you are afraid of doing so, or maybe because doing so would be highly illegal.
• The teacher - you want to teach about a subject and write about it to show how it's good or bad, or just how you think it should be or shouldn't be done.
• The writer - you are writing something on demand, to fulfill someone else's fantasy. This actually can manifest in multiple ways:
  • straight up fan service, where you write about something that someone asked you to write about
  • chasing popularity, where you write about subjects you know are popular and can yield high number of readers / likes
  • challenging yourself to write about something "random", that you would not otherwise be interested in. You are artificially creating the demand.

Obviously, those categories above can mix and match to an extent. You can be chasing popularity and write about something that interests you or write to also teach with your work. However there has to be some sort of base motivation for you to begin writing.

If I'd have to hazard a guess, I'd say that most amateur writers fall into the explorer category for the simple reason, that they are not motivated by fame or fortune, just sharing their stories.

So why would someone be interested in something that's illegal and is that really a problem? We all have dark impulses, or at least the overwhelming majority do. There are things, that are morally, socially, legally questionable or even illegal, but they still interest or fascinate us as topics. The difference between a normal person and a psychopath lies mostly in impulse control. The ability to recognize something to be wrong, illegal, taboo and not do it, even if you are curious about it.

When we get to sexuality, it gets even more complex, as many of the "taboo" interests can probably be traced back to psychological reasons.. improper attraction towards minors, improper attraction towards family members, fantasizing about forcing yourself onto someone else, or forcing them to experience things against their will.

I'm sure if someone has such fantasies, their therapist feels like it's Christmas, as it probably gives them material to milk those wallets for months, if not years

Still, we also cannot ignore the fact, that many of today's societal standards are relatively new, and not at all uniform across the world. The age of consent for example, we all accept as the right thing, but if we look at it from a distance, it's just a variable that has changed all the time and will likely be changed again in the future. No sex between family members is a rule born out of the simple necessity of preventing all the genetic issues arising from inbreeding, but in all reality, as medicine and genetics advance, and as the power of religion over society diminishes, over time it might very well fade into obscurity. Rape is also a touchy subject. We - hopefully - all agree on the value of consent, but in all fairness, when it comes to instinctive behavior, we are evolutionary wired to take what we desire, fuck the other person and their needs or wants. (in this case literally)

I could give you an actual testimonial from myself, as I have plenty of dark fantasies, but let's just say, that would probably be a bit of an overshare. Suffice to say, that though I have no problems consuming some darker works, I'd never write about them myself, as for me, writing about it is already crossing over from "thinking" into "doing".

That's just me however, and as we can see, those subject fascinate a lot, so a lot will be writing about them.

I've written stories about perverted things that do not interest me because I felt that most stories on lit were wrong about it. Something like setting the record straight.
Is this "the teacher" reason?

Of course, people are interested in fantasies that make no sense or are outright dangerous.

Yet portraying things in a more realistic light should still be welcome.

 

[CalebZhass]

I've written stories about perverted things that do not interest me because I felt that most stories on lit were wrong about it. Something like setting the record straight.
Is this "the teacher" reason?

I would put it into that box, yes. Obviously, we can create many different boxes of vastly different shapes, sizes and names. Those are just mine, organized as I feel them to be logical.

Of course, people are interested in fantasies that make no sense or are outright dangerous.

Yet portraying things in a more realistic light should still be welcome.

For some, realism is important, but let's not forget, that one of the main allure of fantasy is that in our fantasies, anything is possible. There is nothing wrong in writing works to better represent how things would happen in reality, but there will always be those who simply do not care about that and just write whatever they want, because in "their world", those are the rules.

Truth is, that the reality of a fantasy world only has to be consistent with itself and doesn't have to adhere to any of the rules of the real world. In fact there is this "uncanny valley" effect in fantasy literature as well in my opinion, where the fantasy world can be realistic enough that we start to perceive it as the real world, yet it is off just enough to make it feel wrong.

"Uncanny valley" is a term that originated from robotics in the 70s and describes the phenomenon, that as things get more and more life like, our perception of how lifelike they are takes a dip towards the end of the graph, shortly before reaching 100%.


I don't subscribe to the notion that more realistic is automatically better, especially as it can at times push something straight into the valley, but also because not everyone likes realism. We are writing about fantasies after all, so what's wrong with letting those fantasies really take off?

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I would put it into that box, yes. Obviously, we can create many different boxes of vastly different shapes, sizes and names. Those are just mine, organized as I feel them to be logical.


For some, realism is important, but let's not forget, that one of the main allure of fantasy is that in our fantasies, anything is possible. There is nothing wrong in writing works to better represent how things would happen in reality, but there will always be those who simply do not care about that and just write whatever they want, because in "their world", those are the rules.

Truth is, that the reality of a fantasy world only has to be consistent with itself and doesn't have to adhere to any of the rules of the real world. In fact there is this "uncanny valley" effect in fantasy literature as well in my opinion, where the fantasy world can be realistic enough that we start to perceive it as the real world, yet it is off just enough to make it feel wrong.

"Uncanny valley" is a term that originated from robotics in the 70s and describes the phenomenon, that as things get more and more life like, our perception of how lifelike they are takes a dip towards the end of the graph, shortly before reaching 100%.

View attachment 2315606
I don't subscribe to the notion that more realistic is automatically better, especially as it can at times push something straight into the valley, but also because not everyone likes realism. We are writing about fantasies after all, so what's wrong with letting those fantasies really take off?

No right or wrong.

Just not intelligent.

Enough of that "50 shades of grey" nonsense, I say. Some, like me, want something that at the very least begins to make sense.

I can't buy it when it's that dumb.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why do people write incest, though...
It makes sense that most of the writers here aren't into incest in real life, but where does the motivation come from? Is it the alluring nature of taboo? Is it just because those stories are so popular?

I mean, I write mostly what I am turned on by. I write about femdom, foot fetish, and so on, and while I wouldn't do all of the things I describe in real life, some of the sexual parts of it I would definitely do. That is why non-commercial incest writers baffle me to a degree, I must say.

Good, interesting questions. Here's my answer:

I write, in part, about specific things that actually turn me on in real life. Like naked women. I just adore the sight of women, and I enjoy writing stories about women in bikinis, or in sexy outfits, or taking everything off indoors and out. I enjoy erotic photography, and have dabbled in it, and so that shows up as a theme in my stories. I have enjoyed dominance/submission play, so that's also a theme.

But on a more abstract, general level, I get erotic pleasure from the idea of pushing boundaries, stretching limits, and getting downright naughty and subversive. That's where the appeal of something like incest lies. I have no personal experience with it, and no, contrary to what ElectricBlue might think I have never actually lusted over, or fantasized about, my mother, or any relative. But I enjoy the somewhat goofy, over-the-top subversiveness of incest stories. The taboo of incest is an erotic stimulant. The pleasure of the forbidden.