Personal space

[Guest]

Good boy!

I'm waiting for other American women to respond. I'm hoping I'm just an anomaly and have "touch me" stamped on my forehead or something.

I've had the same thing happen, min. But as I said before, I am extremely sensitive there, and any unexpected shoulder gropes will cause me to react in a very negative manner with a loud "Ouch!" and "Please don't do that!"

Maybe the word gets out.

But people are touchy-feely in this country, and the same thing used to happen when I was pregnant.

Strangers would come up to me when I was in the grocery check-out line, for instance, and coo at my expanding tummy and then reach for it with one outstretched hand.

I had a defensive posture I finally adopted, both hands crossed in front of me as I backed away. They looked startled, but then seemed to realize what they were about to do. (Touch a complete stranger on her stomach!!)

For one very aggressive toucher I reached out and touched HER tummy back (she wasn't pregnant). Freaked her the fuck out.

Good.

 

[Honey123]

There is a Frenchman in my town that basically undresses me with his eyes everytime I am in his company!!!! It's uncomfortable to say the least...

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

As a "touchy feely" kind of person, who craves random hugs now and then, even I know that especially with women, its always best to let them set the parameters of personal space. Even other men, deferring to their comfort level is wisest.

I've learned to just wait, watch and see how they react with other people and what kinds of levels they establish. If they shake hands with some people, hug others, even do the cheek kiss thing, it normally only takes a few instances of watching to see how most people define persoanl space and interactions.

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

I've learned to just wait, watch and see how they react with other people and what kinds of levels they establish. If they shake hands with some people, hug others, even do the cheek kiss thing, it normally only takes a few instances of watching to see how most people define persoanl space and interactions.

*gigglesnort*

Some of us would overload your system, man. Wouldn't know WHAT to do.

 

[oggbashan]

When in Rome...

Normally I maintain a comfortable distance most of the time except when I'm in France. There cheek-kissing is as impersonal as an Englishman's handshake but far more frequent. A person returning to the living room after a visit to the bathroom might kiss everyone present on the cheek again but even for the French that is extreme.

Several women friends, that is women who are friends of my wife and I, hug me everytime we meet, whether or not my wife is present. My wife gets hugged by them and their husbands, whether or not I am present. I never start the hug, but accept them gratefully.

At a family funeral earlier this year, almost everyone present hugged each other even though many had never met before or were very distant relatives who had met once of twice in their lives.

When in costume as Henry VIII complete strangers seem to want to have pictures taken hugging me. Usually the strangers are female, but sometimes they are a couple. Small Japanese tourists seem to value a picture of themselves with a large Henry VIII.

I work fairly frequently with (and against) our local council. In the last couple of years Lady Councillors and Officers have hugged me in public as thanks for supporting their work. At least one Lady Councillor does it to make a political point, as if she is including me with her political party. The last time she did that at a meeting, the ladies of the other parties all hugged me and she looked annoyed.

Does physical size and being slightly overweight make me more huggable? Except after asking permission, I try never to initiate a hug but I never refuse one.

Og

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I believe there is a time and place for everything, but I am not very weird at all about personal space. There are, of course, exceptions but it's rare for me to feel uncomfortable in close proximity to most strangers and rarely ever with friends/family. The personal space/human touch phenomenon is one that I think of a lot. I actually posted a blog about it.

Here it is:
Is there anything better than the touch of another? It's been studied in various different fields, always showing miraculous results. I can't count the number of stories I've heard or read where the simple touch of another has changed a life forever. The medical world can only scratch its head at the phenomenon, but they have no choice but to recognize it as a valid method of therapy and healing. Hell, there's an entire discipline titled Therapeutic Touch. Even with all this I feel like there's not nearly enough touching going on.

Why is that? Are we so obsessed with personal space that we put up some kind of invisible shield? Or is it that we're so proud or so full of ourselves that we feel others should earn the priviledge? I've stated these both in a rather plain and ugly manner, but I believe both of these to be true in certain situations. Any ideas? Any personal feelings with touch? I guess I've never really understood it. The only time I really get antsy or irritated about being touched is when it's blatantly inappropriate or when it's a matter of being disregarded as unimportant. For example, when a drunk guy at a party reaches out and grabs a handful of tit. Yeah, that gets my ire up. The other time I get fed up is when I'm in line somewhere or in a large crowd and the person behind me simply must lean on me for support lest they fall. Or then there's the ever aggravating intermittent oops bump. You know the one. Person behind you has a clipboard and they're so lost in their own world that they have no clue they've jabbed the corner of it into your spine about fifteen times in the last three minutes.

Those are about the only two I can think of that really get under my skin. The rest of the time I don't much mind being touched. I have friends, however, that get really antsy about any kind of touch. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many times a stranger wandered up to me in public while I was pregnant and laid their hand on my belly. I think it took me a little off guard the first time, but I never felt overly weird about it. At times, it was really nice, in fact. I can meet a stranger in the grocery store and be just fine with them grabbing my shoulder at the end of the conversation.

Those are the public examples. Now for the personal stuff. I don't know how it is for everyone else, but I physically crave touch. Not the accidental brush in the hallway or the playful ass-slap but the deliberate act of touching that carries with it something basic and natural ... something I feel a bit unbalanced without. What is that thing? What is it about someone reaching across your personal space, ever closer, until their flesh comes into direct contact with yours? I have a few hypotheses, but just as soon as I'm ready to accept one as the definitive reason, another crops up and makes a pretty strong case in challenge. *sigh* Will I ever find the answer?

I dunno. What I do know is that I need it the way I need sunlight. After a few days without it, I begin to feel off and antsy a bit like those with seasonal affective disorder must. Anyone else crave and need the touch of another to feel whole and balanced? Or is this whole ramble just confirming my ever increasing oddness?

Touch me!

 

[Ken Nitsua]

No touchy, no feely

When amongst friends, there's obviously not the same formality, but you wouldn't dream of an Englishman laying hands on any part of an acquaintance, or even remotely invading his personal space.

Is this a peculiarly English trait, or are there other nations that don't touch unless very friendly?

The Earl

Are there other nations?! Most Asians don't even shake hands. In Japan there are countless lifelong friends who have never once touched each other.

best,

Ken (of Asian extraction)

 

[Zeb_Carter]

As others have stated there is no place for it in the work place. Now having said that, I have on several occasions been asked to rub the shoulders of a female colleague. I happily complied but I was asked, in front of witnesses, everything out in the open.

Now I had worked with these colleagues for a long while, 5 or more years, and we were a very close knit group, so I didn't feel uncomfortable with the requests. And they didn't feel uncomfortable with my massaging their shoulders.

Other then those specific times I have never invaded a colleagues or a strangers space it would be unthinkable.

 

[sweetnpetite]

...and Mexicans are lazy and Japanese are hard working and Iranians are extremist.

Anyone have a bit of a touchy spot for the profiling, here?

You know, I really don't think it's the same thing. For one thing, we are mostly talking about our own culture. And I think it's very unfair to say that cultures don't have different norms, customs, taboos and so forth. Of course they do! Let's not get so PC that we are blind. Do you think anthropologist are bigots for recognizing and labeling cultural differences? I hope not. I think that's all we're doing here.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I can't say much about other countris. I'm one of those who has only left the US once, when I was young, to go to Canada. I don't remember much about it, and it was one of those, cross for a few hours and go home type deals.

Here's what I've noticed about over here: It's hard sometimes to tell the lines and where they should be drawn. Yes, the workplace is a more easily interpretted situation. Touching is primarily prohibited, and should be used with extreme caution. Lines become blurred when we make friends at work, people we primarily see there, and we don't want to seem too-standoffish or impersonal, but it is always acceptable to not touch anyone, aside from the hand-shake of course.

Outside of work is where things get complicated.

I go to the club, and the place is crowded. If a guy is in my way while en route to another part of the club, usually the men's room but not always, then a hand to the upper arm, often turned so the back of the hand touches near the tricep, lightly touching and a nod if he can see, or a simple "excuse me" is usually how I go about making my way past him. If a girl is in the way, generally a hand turned inward, palm first, into the small of the back is the usual method, along with said nod or "excuse me" and often a smile.

I may rub the shoulders of a female friend, but rarely would I consider it in terms of male friends. And when parting with close male friends, the clasped hands and half-hug gesture might be used on rare occasion, though often just the clasped hands, and close female friends, often a hug, and more than half of those of the non-plutonic variety (meaning both of my hands around her waist and both of hers up near my neck of shoulders, as opposed to the plutonic one arm up, one down procedure). It's not uncommon for my female freinds to place their arms around me, and vice-versa, but not the male ones, though I have had male friends do so in the past, both hug and place their arms around me, though the hugs were always plutonic, and the arms were always the plutonic around the shoulders for both of you deals, as opposed to the arms around the waists.

I think the reason for these differences is more distinctly due to socialization. Not only are men and women often objects to another, and therefore holding the touching of one another and the intimacy implied therein of a different importance, but the boundaries are different (among straight men/women, though I'm sure there are similarities or comparisons among bisexual and homosexuals as well--I'm not knowledgable enough to attempt to comment on those, but... ) for how men act toward each gender, not only because of attraction, but also because of uncertainties. For instance, my female friends often set the stage for how we act toward one another. I've friends I've known for years and we've never hugged one another. More often, it's comfortable for the non-plutonic arms around one another and hugging, and they initiate in cases when I don't.

What I'm getting at is this: With men, our boundaries are different for different reasons, that i often feel are foolish, but still commonplace, and therefore they must be respected to a point. Some people are homophobic, and many men are raised not to be specifically intimate, touchy-feely in general, not just physically touchy-feely. We're not supposed to cry over movies, or talk intimacy with our male friends. We talk tough and make fun of so-and-so for being a sonafabitch. You don't hug other guys, because... well, isn't that "a little gay"? I'm not saying we're all homophobes, merely that this standard was upheld for a long time, the manly hunter-gatherer bullshit who takes care of "the little lady", and while we seem to be moving away from it, we still can't always see the defining line with other men, and we don't want to be misunderstood in our gestures. A tap on the shoulder is not a shoulder rub, and if the girl thinks you're interested in her it's a little different than a guy thinking it...

...especially when some men might be ass hole enough to fight over that misunderstanidng, and the girls generally just stiffen up and won't even slap your hands away.

Q_C

 

[Lovepotion69]

I think Swedes are contradictory. We like our personal space a lot, but we also have no problems touching really. Weird.

When I meet my girl friends we hug and do a lot of touching. I mean, a lot. We'll be laying out heads in the other's lap, leaning against each other, touch hands, brush away hair strands, hold hands etc etc. This is with the Swedish friends.

One of my closest friends is American and she told me her mom and her tried walking arm in arm when in England. They had seen other girls do it. They felt really weird doing it apparently. I used to do that a lot with my mom. My friends and I do it still. We have never really touched much, apart from when hugging after not seeing each other for long. Another American girl and I touched a lot though.

With the guys, yeah, there is touch as well. You learn where the line goes. At work there's not that much touching, but the occasional stuff, and probably the more you get to know each other.

 

[TheEarl]

...and Mexicans are lazy and Japanese are hard working and Iranians are extremist.

Anyone have a bit of a touchy spot for the profiling, here?

Oh come the hell on Joe! Different cultures are different; HSBC made a whole advertising campaign about different mores and manners in different areas. As a rule, English people tend not to like touching when it comes to strangers or no-close acquaintances. Yes, there are always exceptions, but I think we're grown up enough not to have to add BOCTAOE (But of course, there are obvious exceptions) to every statement we make.

The Earl

 

[kendo1]

Mind if I touch you?
Ken

 

[TheEarl]

Mind if I touch you?
Ken

Are you strange?

The Earl

 

[SummerMorning]

There is a Frenchman in my town that basically undresses me with his eyes everytime I am in his company!!!! It's uncomfortable to say the least...

Honey, I don't just fucking undress ya every time I chat to yaz ... I damn well take you to town, toast you with caviar and moet and take you to bleedin' nirvana. So, leave the frenchmen their damn fantasies, ok babe?

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

Are you strange?

The Earl

Yes. Can i touch anyway?

 

[kendo1]

Just a death wish.

Ken

 

[Honey123]

Honey, I don't just fucking undress ya every time I chat to yaz ... I damn well take you to town, toast you with caviar and moet and take you to bleedin' nirvana. So, leave the frenchmen their damn fantasies, ok babe?

there's that charm I find so irresistable... 's

You can wine me and dine me anytime, handsome...

 

[Lovepotion69]

I thought of this thread last Friday when my work colleague out of the blue gave me a hug when saying bye before off for vacation. I was happy though.

 

[AppleBiter]

My 2 cents . . . I've never had a male coworker invade my space in such a way, but there was a woman who used to go around the office, when I worked for a phone company, giving people un-invited back and shoulder rubs. It really creeped people out, but no one ever said anything to her. Thank God, she never did it to me. I'm a very don't-touch-me person, and that could've gotten ugly.

 

[Lovepotion69]

AppleBiter,
I think it very much depends on how well you know the person and what the personal chemistry between the two of you is. How close you are and relaxed with each other. My company is very small and we get to know each other fairly quickly. We also all get along very well and such. The two male colleagues I share a room with are my age. We listen to the radio, talk, joke etc during the day. They are old friends from years back and both very nice relaxed guys.

When my colleague J began at the office I felt he was a relaxed person, so I kinda invaded his space by holding a hand or two on his shoulders when looking at his computer screen. Then I realised it might be invading his space, and far too early, so I stopped it. Now we're more relaxed and know each other better, so I think it'd be fine.

Besides, at the office we've already discussed love, life, politics and sex. We've covered a lot already.

 

[AppleBiter]

AppleBiter,
I think it very much depends on how well you know the person and what the personal chemistry between the two of you is. How close you are and relaxed with each other.

Depends entirely on the person you're dealing with, too. I've known people who I consider close friends that I've known for years who most certainly aren't invited to touch me in any way and it doesn't matter to me the closeness of the relationship or the amount of time I've known them. I'm just a don't-touch-me person, period. Gives me the heebie jeebies. *nods*

 

[Tom Collins]

I'm definitely a "don't touch me" kinda person. I don't even like shaking hands with people. It really doesn't even matter how well I know a person either, I just really don't like being touched by people that I'm not sexually intimate with. I hate hugging people in RL, though I do it because it's expected and I don't want to be rude by pulling away as if they had leperoucy or something. And it's not a cootie thing either. I just don't like having people that close to me if we're not sexually intimate or the expectation of such exists. *shrug*

 

[MaeveoSliabh]

I'm definitely a "don't touch me" kinda person. I don't even like shaking hands with people. It really doesn't even matter how well I know a person either, I just really don't like being touched by people that I'm not sexually intimate with. I hate hugging people in RL, though I do it because it's expected and I don't want to be rude by pulling away as if they had leperoucy or something. And it's not a cootie thing either. I just don't like having people that close to me if we're not sexually intimate or the expectation of such exists. *shrug*

Then there's the rest of us, who, when you meet us, get molestificated. Right? RIGHT??

 

[kendo1]

I could think of worse things than being moletificated by Mae.

Winning the lottery...

Ken