Peace On Earth: Goodwill To Men?

[oggbashan]

When will we ever have Peace On Earth: Goodwill To Men?

For the whole of my lifetime some part of the world has been at war. There are still several declared and undeclared wars happening now.

Is peace on earth possible?

 

[sr71plt]

I doubt that it ever will be, Ogg. I think to get there, there would have to be one universal government over all, and I don't think that makes a pretty picture either. We can keep striving in the direction of peace rather than war, though, and at least keep the combat tampered down a bit.

 

[AllardChardon]

Og, I have often wondered this very thing myself, and have come to the realization that those warrior genes, so useful for so many centuries, might be part of the current problem. What is a warrior supposed to do in the absence of war?

 

[Dual_Triode]

I do not believe it will come to pass in my lifetime, but that doesn't stop me from wishing it so.

Imagine - John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[oggbashan]

Christmas Truce 1915

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT0ysO58KXE

 

[litfan10]

My moment of "ENOUGH!" came a couple of years ago when a dear friend of mine started his homily with "Right now at this moment there are forty-six armed conflicts going on around the world. Not random violence, but actual organized groups sent by others to kill each other."

He didn't have to say another word.

There is not much I can do against governments and organized military units, but I can smile a lot and give as much love as I can every day and if enough did the same maybe it will be enough some day.

Merry Christmas, the War Is Over.

beautiful words from somebody who himself was gunned down.

A very, very heartfelt peace and love to you all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think Peace on Earth is possible. But if we keep working towards it, we might get pretty close.

 

[Handley_Page]

I quite agree with Stella.

 

[njlauren]

Peace on earth is kind of like trying to live up to religious teachings, it is a goal that we strive for but probably won't reach. I could argue that compared to prior centuries, it is a lot more peaceful on earth, and make a pretty strong case for it if you look at the scope of the wars. We fought two major global conflicts in the 20th century , WWI and WWII, that killed probably close to 70 or 80 million people and left a lot of Europe in Rubble (people used to muse what WWIII would look like, in terms of destruction, and I pointed out that outside the US, take a look at what conventional weapons did, what London looked like, what Berlin and Stalingrad and so forth looked like, what Tokyo looked like and so forth, and then get scared.

The 19th century saw a lot of large armed conflicts as well, and prior centuries were not so peaceful, either, and of course the irony that somehow people living in biblical times were special kind of falls apart when you look at the history of that region, and realize war and conflict were constant.....

I think if you look at the impact of wars, too, the scope is a lot less (doesn't make it any less horrible), we have a population of 6 billions, what percentage of those people are subject to the casualties of war at any time? And how does that compare to past centuries?

I think that it has gotten better, 300 years ago and before Europe was wracked by wars of religion and land and ideology, it hasn't happened, and large swaths of Asia, once war wracked, have been relatively peaceful for the past 40 years as old ideology and hatreds kind of die off (North Korea is no garden spot, but I suspect their day is drawing to a close).....South America was rent by constant military coups and revolutions, that is not going on any more. There are still problems with drug cartels and some revolutionary (read criminal) movements, but they are criminal matters, very different. Most of the big conflicts can be narrowed to some specific areas, Africa and the Middle East, so progress has been made, even in my lifetime. The threat of nuclear anihilation is also a lot less likely then it was for most of my growing up and adulthood, we faced the threat of a global wipeout, that is growing less and less likely with time (doesn't mean the threat of nuclear weapons isn't there, just means it won't be the armageddon of WWIIII).

Outside of religion, specifically the threat of fundamentalism, the biggest problem is economic, much of these wars are being caused by economic issues, economic disparity, fighting over natural resources, plus there also is the old tribal nonsense, and the news on that is that tribalism is fading over time, too.

I don't think there will ever be a peace on earth as a perfect state, but I think we are heading to a place and time, prob not within my lifetime, where war becomes more and more localized and affects less and less people.

 

[Handley_Page]

When will we ever have Peace On Earth: Goodwill To Men?

For the whole of my lifetime some part of the world has been at war. There are still several declared and undeclared wars happening now.

Is peace on earth possible?

I recall reading that up to a few years ago, the only year since the War that has not featured some military conflict was 1963.

Civilisation ?. Start with honest education, it strikes me as needed.

 

[Blind_Justice]

It would be so much easier if any kind of disagreement could be solved by other means instead of violence. Let two nations, instead of sending armies, send a chess master each and have them duke it out. The better man wins and no one has to die. But as long as it is so much easier to just kill the opposition than to accept that you are in fact WRONG, then nothing ever will change. Look at Syria. It's blatantly obvious no one wants the prez around any more, but he still has the means to hire more and more soldiers and won't consider stepping down.

 

[oggbashan]

I recall reading that up to a few years ago, the only year since the War that has not featured some military conflict was 1963.

Civilisation ?. Start with honest education, it strikes me as needed.

That is the only year in which British troops were not involved, not a year without wars.

Over the last 300 years, British troops have been in action in most countries of the world. Among the very few exceptions is Switzerland.

 

[PoppingTom]

Peace on earth is possible.

It's what nearly the entire Western world lives the last 60 years.

The rest of the world will follow, sooner or later.

War lost a lot of its maleness. Instead of sides, people begin to watch about the actions.

I'm not blind to wars existing. But I believe in the human kind. It's the only belief I got.

 

[TE999]

As long as Religion's exist, there will be war. Throughout history, more people have died over theological differences than for any other reason.

Likewise, The Seven Deadly Sins are firebrands that have ignited many a conflict. Lust, Greed, Gluttony, Sloth, Pride, Envy and Wrath are in the saddle and ride Mankind.

Until the above are expunged from the human psyche, watch your back and keep your Powder dry.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Hey, what's wrong with a little lust now and then?

 

[TE999]

Hey, what's wrong with a little lust now and then?

Lust for a woman=good.

Lust for power=bad.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Tell that to the Trojans

 

[sr71plt]

Tell that to the Trojans

You talk to condoms?

 

[Bramblethorn]

When will we ever have Peace On Earth: Goodwill To Men?

For the whole of my lifetime some part of the world has been at war. There are still several declared and undeclared wars happening now.

Is peace on earth possible?

If you want some cheering up, Steven Pinker argues that the world is actually a less violent place now than in any time in human history, and that it appears otherwise because the violence that does happen gets more and more coverage.

Stats here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html (disclaimer: I am not a fan of HuffPo)

I don't know whether that trend is going to continue, but it's good news as far as it goes.

 

[colddiesel]

Among the very few exceptions is Switzerland.

I don't think so Og. The Swiss have made fortunes financing wars and illegal terror. One of the most morally corrupt nations on the planet.

Personally I think some wars are both inevitable and necessary. If we cease to fight for what we think is right, we cease to be human. I contend that in many circumstances, that to turn the other cheek is morally indefensible.

Killing people is an ugly business but sometime it has to be done.

 

[oggbashan]

I don't think so Og. The Swiss have made fortunes financing wars and illegal terror. One of the most morally corrupt nations on the planet.

Personally I think some wars are both inevitable and necessary. If we cease to fight for what we think is right, we cease to be human. I contend that in many circumstances, that to turn the other cheek is morally indefensible.

Killing people is an ugly business but sometime it has to be done.

My statement was that British troops have not fought in Switzerland. Whatever your country, it is statistically probable that British troops have fought in it sometime in the last 300 years.

 

[TxRad]

Peace On Earth: Goodwill To Men?

More Piece on Earth would make for more peace on Earth.

 

[njlauren]

I recall reading that up to a few years ago, the only year since the War that has not featured some military conflict was 1963.

Civilisation ?. Start with honest education, it strikes me as needed.

I think you may need to find a recap, in 1963 the US had 'advisors' in South Vietnam and there was a reason for that,the vietnam war was on..plus I believe several revolts were going on in Africa, the ANC was fighting the apartheid regime in South Africa......

 

[oggbashan]

I think you may need to find a recap, in 1963 the US had 'advisors' in South Vietnam and there was a reason for that,the vietnam war was on..plus I believe several revolts were going on in Africa, the ANC was fighting the apartheid regime in South Africa......

As I said above, 1963 was the only year the BRITISH weren't involving in a shooting war. 1963 didn't apply to other nations.

For example: Algeria and Morocco were at war on their borders in 1963.

 

[njlauren]

I don't think it is the west has been without war in the past 60 years, it is that the west exported it or supported it. The middle east during the cold war became a proxie war between the US and the USSR, with the USSR supporting the egyptians, syrians et al and the US Israel; Korea was the US and some allies for the most part (with relatively little UN support) fighting North Korea who was supported by China and the USSR; Vietnam was a proxy war between the US and USSR backed north vietnam.Then you get the whole tangled politics of the middle east with oil, you get regimes that otherwise should be extinct backed by governments (the US in Iran and Saudi Arabia) that later bit us in the ass, China keeping the Sudanese government in business. 9/11 happened in part because of the US supporting the Mujhadeen in Afghanistan fighting the USSR, then walking away after Russia withdrew, which let the Pakistani ISI set up the Taliban in power, plus Al Qaeda was formed by the same people who had fought in afghanistan.....

War itself of course is changing, it is shifting from nations states fighting into wars of all kinds of terrorism, economic and otherwise. The so called war on terrorism has taken its toll on the west, both in costs and also in some scary moves towards violating basic rights (no, I am no absolute leftist when it comes to such things, I had absolutely no problem with the US taking out the Islamic douchebag over in Yemen who was a US citizen, once he de facto declared war on the US ,was promoting war against the us,he was no longer a citizen in my book, and therefore was an enemy combatant. There is legal precedent for this, during wartime other rights can be suspended, including the right of Habeus Corpus, which congress can suspend or as in the case of lincoln, grant the president the right to do it)..but then you had during the Bush administration the claim that if they did the intercepts on cell phones and such which were being doing without warrants, that if stuff turned up that was not related to possible terrorist activity, but illegal, that they could use that to prosecute someone in court .....I don't know if the courts finally squashed that, but it is scary, it is the right's wet dream to be able to violate basic rights, and don't think it would stop with criminal activity, ever read about what Hoover did as head of the FBI?

One poster's comment gave me food for thought, about that if we don't fight wars, it means we have given up fighting for what we believe in, and after some thought I am not sure I agree. Human beings can fight with tools much better then weapons, human beings have powerful weapons of words and idea, they also have the weapons of collective action, civil disobedience and the like. Sometimes war becomes a necessity, but generally wars happen because we failed to fight the good fight before the war. If western co mpanies and governments had refused to recognize Hitler, if they had boycotted Nazi German economically, if big banking and industrial firms had refused to do business with the regime, it is likely it would have fallen; had the french (who had the largest standing army in Europe, mind you) sent troops when Germany occupied the Rhineland, maybe a company or two, the German military had issued orders to retreat in the face of any resistance, and they likely would have pulled a coup and gotten rid of Hitler, but their occupying it with no resistance solidified hitler's power over the miltary, who had been not all that thrilled with him. (and yes, this would have been a military action, but given the devastation of WWII, it was more of a pretense then a real action. If we could get unified action on Iran, and literally cut off oil shipments from there and economically choke them, the mullahs would prob end up being overthrown (problem is we can't get unified action on that, plus everyone is too afraid of the panic from cutting off Iranian oil, and the CHinese would be likely to break the embargo)..... It isn't about fighting for what is right, it is fighting in the right way, where war, instead of becoming a primary instrument, becomes truly a last resort.

I also have reason to be cynical, the US has helped drive ourselves economically into the ground (sorry, Tea Party, but it wasn't social spending that did this) by spending close to 3 trillion on Iraq and Afghanistan [the official figures are way, way off, they don't include a lot of the costs of those wars, it doesn't include rebuilding Iraq, it doesn't cost the heavy, heavy medical costs for the wounded, ,lost economic activity and so forth) on two wars that basically have done nothing useful, but you can bet next time something comes up the gun happy crowd will be raising the troops and such....I hope against hope that when we look at the cost of these wars (which were by any standard small in scope,compared even to Korea and Vietnam, not to me mention WWII) we will figure out it is economic suicide to use the military the way we have. People in the cold war claimed war was obsolete because the cost of war was just too high, but while it did help prevent a nuclear holocaust, it didn't stop war; I am hoping that the cost of conflict, at least to the big economies, is such that they turn their back on it, but I am not that optimistic about it.