Pat Robertson

[elsol]

God invented evolution... how hard is that to fucking understand!!!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[sweetnpetite]

"There are some upon this earth of yours," returned the Spirit, "who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us."
---Ghost of Christmas Present/Charles Dickens

 

[thebullet]

Copy of a post from another thread:

There was an interesting discussion about Intelligent Design on This Week on Sunday morning. The consensis of the pundents was that ID has become an embarrassment to the Republican Party.

FYI, none of the 'pundents' - today they were Sam Donnellson, Cokie Roberts, and George Will considered ID to be anything but the intrusion of Religion into the classroom. The term 'medieval' was bandied about.

All agreed that the support for ID from such Republicans as GWBush, Bill Frist and others was to pander to the Social Conservatives (read Christian Right} due to the support they receive from them, rather than any real belief in this religion-based 'theory'.

George Will was especially adament in his belief that unless the Republicans drop their support for Intelligent Design, the party will become a laughing stock.
________________________________________________________________
BTW: I saw this on a website:
_______________________________________________________________


OPEN LETTER TO KANSAS SCHOOL BOARD:

CC:
DOVER SCHOOL BOARD (PENNSYLVANIA)
OHIO STATE SCHOOL BOARD
RIO RANCHO SCHOOL BOARD (NEW MEXICO)
GRANTSBURG SCHOOL BOARD (WISCONSIN)
COBB COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD(GEORGIA)
SHELBY COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD(TENNESSEE)
CHARLES COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD(MARYLAND)
NAPERVILLE SCHOOL BOARD(ILLINOIS)
DARBY SCHOOL BOARD (MONTANA)
BLUFFTON-HARRISON SCHOOL BOARD (INDIANA)


I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.

Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.

Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.

I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.



In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

Sincerely Yours,

Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.

P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.

 

[Subo97]

For those with a direct line

I'm reminded of a Robin Williams routine:

"Jesus is coming, brothers, Jesus is coming"

"What? He's here?"

"Oh, shit.................."

 

[SeaCat]

Could he be any more of an ass?

How do people like this get away with calling themselves Christain? it's appaling.

Sweet,

The problem lies not with Mr. Robertson and his ilk. It lies with the people, of whom there are way too many, who do not, can not and refuse to think. They prefer others to do their thinking for them and follow the person or orginisation with the loudest voice.

Idiots like Mr. Robertson often have the loudest voices and therefore have the most followers. The bible has several comments about people like this. It is unfortunate that people like him forget to read the bible as a whole and just take what they want, what is convenient for their personal beliefs from it. Maybe this is why I don't believe in organised religeon.

Cat

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Sweet,

The problem lies not with Mr. Robertson and his ilk. It lies with the people, of whom there are way too many, who do not, can not and refuse to think. They prefer others to do their thinking for them and follow the person or orginisation with the loudest voice.

Idiots like Mr. Robertson often have the loudest voices and therefore have the most followers. The bible has several comments about people like this. It is unfortunate that people like him forget to read the bible as a whole and just take what they want, what is convenient for their personal beliefs from it. Maybe this is why I don't believe in organised religeon.

Cat

It's deeper than that. The vast majority of his followers have never cracked a bible unless instructed to. Tell them to open their bibles to judges and give them a verse to read and they do. And they take the verse literally. Ask them what a judge is, and they are lost. Roberston and his ilk surivie on a lack of contextural knowledge among their flocks.

Mossaic law, as provided in Deuternomomy and Leviticus, is draconian. It lacks any kind of compassion and is inflexible. It's also contravened in many cases directly, by the teachings of Jesus. But if you don't understand the context, jesus seems to be speaking into the air.

the biggest failing of most of his followers isn't that they are your run of the mill imbecile. Or that they are too lazy to think for themselves. It's that they have no appreciation of the context of their holy book. And the Robertson's of the world make out like bandits because they can selective quote scripture to support just about any far fetched idea that comes to their heads.

 

[Boxlicker101]

But people do take him seiously, that's the problem.

I think he meets with GWB as well.

To most people, he is a dolt and a buffoon. However, to a small minority he is next to God, and they will do whatever he says, including sending him money and voting the way he says. Because of his almost total control over that small minority, he is courted and sucked up to. One of these days, God will get pissed off at him and Falwell and others like that and strike them down with a series of lightning bolts. That would be a great day for all of humanity, especially the USA.

 

[cantdog]

I think Pat is getting a little senile lately, don't you? In his glory days, running for GOP nomination, running for President, he was much more canny. He now makes these off-the-cuff wacko pronouncements.

You can see it in the faces of the men (always men) on camera alongside him, when he begins to extemporize. The faces freeze into this half-smile, their eyes lock onto him. They may as well have a voice balloon over their heads: "Oh Jesus! What's he gonna say this time??" And he says the most incoherent things! Usually, anyway. Once every two weeks or so, he comes out with a real doozy, one everyone can understand. And it's just off the wall.

The one about how we ought to send black ops to shoot Chavez, for instance. There was a man on the set next to him, when he laid that one on us. His face was a study. It was hilarious.

Have you seen the 700 Club broadcasts, lately? The dude is doddering! He is likely to say any damn thing! If they allow him to keep on appearing without a tape delay, the whole edifice of this 700 Club will self-destruct. Because, seriously, the man is really confused.

 

[mcopado]

I sent this letter to the editor of my local paper. Oh yeah don't be shocked to find a minister who is an active member of literotic There's probably a few of us out there, but I am very open about my view of spirituality and sexuality...Plus I come from a very very liberal non-denominal movement-We were the first to ordain women and gays.... We also consider ourselves to be more spiritual than religuous-Although I identify as a "Christian" I have studied with muslims, buddahists, pagans etc....

but here's what I sent to the Detroit Free Press...I doubt if they'll publish it.
Would appreciate your comments.

I am writing as both a Christian and as a minister to thank Pat Robertson for once again blackening the eye of our faith and our vocation, with his recent comments concerning the town of Dover, PA and their decision to oust the school board members who were attempting to push the theory of intelligent design into the science curriculum.

As a man of deep faith I have never had a problem with reconciling the scientifically sound ideas of both the "Big Bang" and of Darwinian evolution, with Genesis' story of creation. I have always believed that the Bible was an inspired work, written by divinely inspired men, who attempted to define the world around them in spiritual terms, but based on the limited intellectual knowledge of the time it was written. If a rock fell from the sky and destroyed a town, and there was little knowledge of astronomy or meteors, then to those who witnessed the event it could only be the work of an unseen Divine hand, and an angry one at that.

To me, the creation story as found in Genesis represents man's Spiritual Evolution, beginning with nothing, to the creation of the stars, then to the firmament (the substance that the planet formed into), the separation of earth and water, the development of plants and animals, into early (prehistoric, animalistic) man and concluding with the first moment where the "Breath of God" was felt by humanity- the first awareness we had of that there was something divine outside ourselves, who we called God.

Many faithful yet mostly silent Christians see the creation story, and the whole Bible for that matter, as I do, as an allegorical, metaphorical and poetic work, not as something to be taken literally. If it were to be meant to be taken literally, then we would still be stoning people for committing adultery, and other supposedly "heinous" acts.

The God I passionately believe in, and serve, is not a God of punishment, nor of apathy. God neither causes natural disasters such as the recent hurricanes which devastated New Orleans and the gulf (despite what other of Robertson and his ilk said a few weeks back) as punishment for our acts, nor does God turn away from those who suffer. The God I believe in is present; comforting those afflicted, and manifests through the actions of the rescue workers on the ground, and the countless prayers and monetary donations of the rest of us. And the God I believe in neither agrees with nor condones the hate disguised as piety of Pat Robertson and his type of "religion".

Thank you again Pat for turning faith back into superstition, and making it the brunt of stand up comedy, and late night television.

 

[CopyCarver]

Uncomfortably close to the truth

Pat Robertson announced today that he’s convinced George W. Bush to change the US Government’s emblem from an eagle to a condom because it more accurately reflects the Bush Administration’s political stance.

A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed.

 

[cantdog]

I used to take Genesis, you know, the creation parts of Genesis, the way i would any creation myth. Raven capturing the sun, Bifrost and whatnot, the Titans and the gods-- every creation story has a lesson for us, an aspect to consider out of all the myriad aspects of Life.

But it seems to be different with Genesis. Because people take it literally. Not as a myth, but word-for-word. So, alright, okay-- literally, then.

I wantcha to take note that Mankind is created twice in Genesis. Once, by 'Elohim": Male and female he created them.. and once, by 'Yahweh': the one where the dude is formed outta clay and breath, the dude gives birth via his extracted rib to Woman, and the whole serpent and garden scene, quite some time further on in the Genesis book as a whole.

So if we take it literally, we have two creations. The first one, men and women are made right along with the beasts, or shortly thereafter, by 'Elohim.' Now, that's aplural. Gods. The gods made all this. Go forth and multiply and be fruitful and overcome obstacles.

Later, we have the singular god Yahweh, who evidently decides to make a separate human couple all by himself, in this paradisiac garden. He isolates his human couple. We get a good deal of detail about clay and breath and ribs and all. Then Yahweh gives 'em the run of the place, except the trees. Don't eat the fruit, for like it'll kill ya. That's the lie he gives the human couple.

The serpent gives 'em the real skinny. You won't die, man, he says. It'll just give you Godly knowledge, is all. Your call.

Adam lives hundreds of years and begets lots and lots of descendants, by the way, before he dies. And he does get some Godly-type knowledge, just as the serpent said. Yahweh lied, and the serpent told the truth. Notice that.

Anyway, the couple eat and get evicted. They go off to the outside world. Their kids go off and find mates and marry them and have descendants and all that. So who are all these other people, with their Land of Nod? Who are all these guys to the East of Eden and elsewhere? They are, of course, the people, or rather the descendants of the people, which were already created by all the gods well before.

So it is ONLY the descendants of Adam, ONLY the semites, I suppose, Yahweh's chosen people, his own special creation, who have the big problem of Original Sin, the big atonement due for blowing off Yahweh's lies and believing the Serpent's truth. All those other people have no original sin, because they didn't do any of that Garden and serpent shit. I am not semitic, personally, for instance, so I consequently have no need to atone. I have no Original Sin. I don't require salvation. None of the Other People do. Only Adam's descendants.

If you insist on literalism, you have to go along with me about the Other People. Otherwise, Cain's kids were all children of incest, and so were any other descendents of Adam and Eve. The casual references to moving off out east to live make little sense otherwise.

 

[SeaCat]

Pat Robertson announced today that he’s convinced George W. Bush to change the US Government’s emblem from an eagle to a condom because it more accurately reflects the Bush Administration’s political stance.

A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed.

Time to clean the beer off the monitor again.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

It's deeper than that. The vast majority of his followers have never cracked a bible unless instructed to. Tell them to open their bibles to judges and give them a verse to read and they do. And they take the verse literally. Ask them what a judge is, and they are lost. Roberston and his ilk surivie on a lack of contextural knowledge among their flocks.

Mossaic law, as provided in Deuternomomy and Leviticus, is draconian. It lacks any kind of compassion and is inflexible. It's also contravened in many cases directly, by the teachings of Jesus. But if you don't understand the context, jesus seems to be speaking into the air.

the biggest failing of most of his followers isn't that they are your run of the mill imbecile. Or that they are too lazy to think for themselves. It's that they have no appreciation of the context of their holy book. And the Robertson's of the world make out like bandits because they can selective quote scripture to support just about any far fetched idea that comes to their heads.

Somewhat what I said.

Cat

 

[mcopado]

I used to take Genesis, you know, the creation parts of Genesis, the way i would any creation myth. Raven capturing the sun, Bifrost and whatnot, the Titans and the gods-- every creation story has a lesson for us, an aspect to consider out of all the myriad aspects of Life.

But it is the same, only our culture seems to think that it dropped onto our laps set in stone an un edited...Funny how the religuous right uses the king James version---The most highly edited of all and calls that Literal. LOL

I did a thesis on many of the creations stories, and the all tell the same story, The creation and the fall.

 

[cantdog]

Yeah. I think literalists amusing until I realize they will act on it. Not so funny, then. They drive airplanes into skyscrapers, or blow up abortion clinics.

 

[SeaCat]

But it is the same, only our culture seems to think that it dropped onto our laps set in stone an un edited...Funny how the religuous right uses the king James version---The most highly edited of all and calls that Literal. LOL

I did a thesis on many of the creations stories, and the all tell the same story, The creation and the fall.

You too huh? I got thrown out of school for mine though. (Never write something like this in New England.)

Cat

 

[Huckleman2000]

I used to take Genesis, you know, the creation parts of Genesis, the way i would any creation myth. Raven capturing the sun, Bifrost and whatnot, the Titans and the gods-- every creation story has a lesson for us, an aspect to consider out of all the myriad aspects of Life.

But it seems to be different with Genesis. Because people take it literally. Not as a myth, but word-for-word. So, alright, okay-- literally, then.

I wantcha to take note that Mankind is created twice in Genesis. Once, by 'Elohim": Male and female he created them.. and once, by 'Yahweh': the one where the dude is formed outta clay and breath, the dude gives birth via his extracted rib to Woman, and the whole serpent and garden scene, quite some time further on in the Genesis book as a whole...

ONe of my favorite classes in college was titled "God and Man in the Old Testament". We spent quite a lot of time on the Pentateuch (the first five books). Biblical scholarship has discerned and separated several distinct voices, or oral traditions, that have been interwoven into the eventual written text. As you point out, they differ on such things as what name they use for God, as well as their take on various events. The research indicates that the different oral traditions arose during different times, and reflect the spiritual lessons that the originators considered important within each historical context.

I also took the follow-on class on the New Testament, which was not nearly as interesting.

 

[cantdog]

Lucky bastid. I went to a state U. There was a seminary in town, but those guys wanted real valuta to take a course, so I never took that sort of instruction.


That's the dues for marrying young. You hafta pay for your own education.

Hey, preacher-man! Hang out in the Author's Hangout a while, if you can. I am enjoying your company.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I always wondered about literalist acceptance of the genisis creation story. Some of the people in the OT are pretty bright, but can you imagine God trying to tell teh writer of genisis what really happened?

God: Okay Bubba, time to write down how I made all of this.

Bubba: Okay God, got my quil and ink, you talk I'll write.

G: Okay, we start with a singularity. Now...

B: A singuawhat?"

G: A singularity. It's basically the only thing, all mass and energy packed into a point, the size of...well smaller than a flea.

B Every thing's in there?

G: Right.

B: So you fit this whole mountain into there?

G: Not just the mountain, thw whole cosmos!

B: Cos what?

G: Planets, stars galaxies, the whole smash

B: We'll stars aren't that big, but I can't believe you got this whole mountain in there.

G: Well I did, just write it.

B: you're the boss

G: So souddenly this singualrity explodes, driving all matter and energy away from itself at...

B: explodes?

G: Right

B: Like a dead camel when it's been in the sun too long?

G: well, yeah, kinda

b; Okay

G: Now you get stars forming..wait a minute, did you actually put that part about like a camel inthere?

B: yes.

G:Well take it out. it's not the same.

B: But you said.

G: Nevermind. Leave some blank pages. lets just get to creating the planet, I'll fill you in hte rest later.

b: All right

g: Now, you start with the primordial soup.

b: Is that like sheep soup or vegetable soup?

G: neither really, it's a mix of water, carbon molecules..

B: molewhats?

G: Just write it bubba, you're already bucking for some boils here.

B: Yes god.

G: So anyway, I've got all the ingredients for life here and now all we need is...Bubba, why are you staring at me like that?

B: Sorry, what's the soup in? A pot or did you just start in the bowl?

G: neither, it's...Bubba, try and stay with m hre, it's not soup, it's just called a soup. It's really just water and carbon and electrolytes

B: no meat?

G: No.

B; Not a very hearty soup then?

G: Arrrgh....

 

[mcopado]

Great post Colleen,

It reminds me of this Poem, that I am oneday going to use as part of a Metaphysical Christmas Service,

God is Born
D. H. Lawrence

The history of the cosmos
is the history of the struggle of becoming.
When the dim flux of unformed life
struggled, convulsed back and forth upon itself,
and broke at last into light and dark
came into existence as light,
came into existence as cold shadow
then every atom of the comsos trembled with delight.
Behold, God is born!
He is bright light!
He is pitch dark and cold!

And in the great struggle of intangible chaos
when, at a certain point, a drop of water
began to drip downwards
and a breath of vapour began to wreathe up
Lo again the shudder of bliss through all the atoms!
Oh, God is born!
Behold, He is born wet!
Look, He hath movement upward! He spirals!

And so, in the great aeons of accomplishment and debacle
from time to time the wild crying of every electron:
Lo! God is born!

When sapphires cooled out of molten chaos:
See, God is born! He is blue, he is deep blue,
he is forever blue!
When gold lay shining threading the cooled-off rock:
God is born! God is born! bright yellow and ductile
He is born.

When the little eggy amoeba emerged out of foam and nowhere
then all the electrons held their breath:
Ach! Ach! Now indeed God is born! He twinkles within.

When from a world of mosses and of ferns
at last the narcissus lifted a tuft of five-point stars
and dangled them in the atmosphere,
then every molecule of creation jumped and clapped its hands:
God is born! God is born perfumed and dangling and with a little cup!

Throughout the aeons, as the lizard swirls his tail finer than water,
as the peacock turns to the sun, and could not be more splendid,
as the leopard smites the small calf with a spangled paw, perfect.
the universe trembles: God is born! God is here!

And when at last man stood on two legs and wondered,
then there was a hush of suspense at the core of every electron:
Behold, now very God is born!
God Himself is born!

And so we see, God is not
until he is born.

And also we see
there is no end to the birth of God.

***

By the way great AV, is it you?

 

[woodnymph_O]

Great post Colleen,

It reminds me of this Poem, that I am oneday going to use as part of a Metaphysical Christmas Service,

God is Born
D. H. Lawrence

The history of the cosmos
is the history of the struggle of becoming.
When the dim flux of unformed life
struggled, convulsed back and forth upon itself,
and broke at last into light and dark
came into existence as light,
came into existence as cold shadow
then every atom of the comsos trembled with delight.
Behold, God is born!
He is bright light!
He is pitch dark and cold!

And in the great struggle of intangible chaos
when, at a certain point, a drop of water
began to drip downwards
and a breath of vapour began to wreathe up
Lo again the shudder of bliss through all the atoms!
Oh, God is born!
Behold, He is born wet!
Look, He hath movement upward! He spirals!

And so, in the great aeons of accomplishment and debacle
from time to time the wild crying of every electron:
Lo! God is born!

When sapphires cooled out of molten chaos:
See, God is born! He is blue, he is deep blue,
he is forever blue!
When gold lay shining threading the cooled-off rock:
God is born! God is born! bright yellow and ductile
He is born.

When the little eggy amoeba emerged out of foam and nowhere
then all the electrons held their breath:
Ach! Ach! Now indeed God is born! He twinkles within.

When from a world of mosses and of ferns
at last the narcissus lifted a tuft of five-point stars
and dangled them in the atmosphere,
then every molecule of creation jumped and clapped its hands:
God is born! God is born perfumed and dangling and with a little cup!

Throughout the aeons, as the lizard swirls his tail finer than water,
as the peacock turns to the sun, and could not be more splendid,
as the leopard smites the small calf with a spangled paw, perfect.
the universe trembles: God is born! God is here!

And when at last man stood on two legs and wondered,
then there was a hush of suspense at the core of every electron:
Behold, now very God is born!
God Himself is born!

And so we see, God is not
until he is born.

And also we see
there is no end to the birth of God.

***

By the way great AV, is it you?

I for one am glad to see a Christian, with some bit of spirit and logic combined, nice to see ya honey.
I agree the stories of evelotion are numerous, and really don't vary alot from culture to culture, just the names change. I have my own beliefs there also. Believe as you might in your own MYTH you have to wonder when it all stops. What if people who believe UFOs were responsible for creation want that taught too, It really all becomes a class of what ifs. So 9th grade science would be designated "the year of what if". Then the children could sit around and suppose if creation of Humankind , was the result of the mixture of giraffe feces and coconuts.
As for Pat Roberts, I sometimes think he is the "Antichrist so many worry about. To take it literally it means opposite of christ. Pat Roberts is definately the opposite of all I learned of christ.
the Jackass
Nymph

 

[sweetnpetite]

If you insist on literalism, you have to go along with me about the Other People. Otherwise, Cain's kids were all children of incest, and so were any other descendents of Adam and Eve. The casual references to moving off out east to live make little sense otherwise.

Yeah, but assuming they did exist, they were destroyed in the flood. Hence, everybody now alive is a decendent of Adam.

(I told a christian friend of mine that the bible has 2 creation stories that are different and she didn't believe me.)

 

[cloudy]

I agree the stories of evelotion are numerous, and really don't vary alot from culture to culture, just the names change.

Oh, I dunno about that, nymphy.

Wanna hear the Choctaw creation story? I knew you would.

Many years ago, there were no men. Hush-tali was alone with our animal brothers.They gave him no comfort as they were busy playing Toli amongst themselves. Hush-tali asked Mother Moon why she shone so bright in her happiness at night. "I have my children, they play and hunt in the woods at night." Hush-tali asked Father Sun why he gave his warmth to the Earth each day. "To warm my children and give them light to play Toli." Hush-tali sat alone and thought about this for many, many years. Then Hush-tali decided that he must have his own children, too. First he built a great mountain, the one we call Nanih Waiya, to hold his children until they were born. You see, my son, there were yet no women on the Earth to a mother to men. Then, he placed the seeds of man deep within the bowels of the mountain. Knowing that they would be small and weak when they were born, Hush-tali dug a great cave in the side of Nanih Waiya. Then Hush-tali waited patiently, as any expectant father must do.

First born were the Creeks. When they came out of the cave, they climbed the side of Nanih Waiya and lay down in the light of Father Sun to dry themselves. "What is this place of light," they said amognst themselves as they lay drying. When they were dry, the Creeks walked round and round Nanih Waiya to see where they were. When they were tired, is was night and cold, so they built a the first council fire to give themselves warmth, and smoked many pipes of tobacco as they sat talking. In the morning, Father Sun came again, and they said to themselves, "Let us go to the land where Father Sun lives at night and it will not be cold." So they went to the East and there they gave birth to a Great People.

Then were born the Cherokees. When they came out into the Sun to dry themselves, the woods all around had burned, because the Creeks had been careless with their fires and their smoking. They lay on the side of the Mother Hill, Nanih Waiya, and when they were dry, they could not find the trail of their Creek brothers as the fires had burned away the trail. They walked round and round Nanih Waiya, then the wisest among them said, "Let us go this way and find a home." They went to the North and there they found a home for their Nation.

Chickasaw emerged from the Mother Hill next. As they lay, drying in Father Sun's warmth, they saw their Brothers walking to the North. They followed the Cherokee to the North land. They settled nearby, and their many children built the Nation of the Chickasaw close to their Brother Cherokees. There they stayed.

Our Choctaw people came last from the Mother Hill's belly and Nanih Waiya rejoiced that all of her children were at last born. The Choctaw walked round and round their Mother, finally lying down to dry in the Sun. When they were dry, they held the first council of the Tribe. There were many words, many voices. When it was done they decided they could not leave their Mother alone, they would stay within her sight where she could watch them and not worry. Around Nanih Waiya they stayed, they found no need to leave her.

Hush-tali smiled upon his children and it was good in his heart. This is how man was born from Mother Earth.

 

[CopyCarver]

I'm Saved, You're Going to Hell

How do people like this get away with calling themselves Christain? it's appaling.

A very wise old priest at Notre Dame, who was willing to talk with a hardcore heathen like me, once told me his secret for "grading" Christians:
"If they say they're trying to be good Christians but not succeeding very well, then they ARE good Christians in my book. If they say they're not, but that they want to be, then they're honest people and there is hope for them. But whenever someone says he or she is a good Christian or the best of all possible Christians, I know they're lying either to me or to themselves. Christianity is a very tough gig, and nobody since Jesus Christ has been really good at it. The secret is to be sincere and to try, not to brag and feel superior to others."

 

[thebullet]

(I told a christian friend of mine that the bible has 2 creation stories that are different and she didn't believe me.)

Sweetie, my college Religion Professor (A PhD in Comparative Religion and a Minister), claimed there were 4 creation stories in the first 5 books. (And that didn't include my personal favorite: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


According to him, sometime in the BC era, I don't know - 350BC or thereabouts (I'm guessing, this was 30 years ago for me), there was a convention held to reconcile all of the stories that were floating around back then and come up with a single, definitive Bible. The committete couldn't agree on just one story sometimes, so they let several versions remain in the final product.

That's what happened with the creation story. As you know, an elephant is a mouse designed by a committee.