Partner's Insecurities

[vre_11]

Hi! I've been lurking here for a while. Finally have the guts to ask a question. I'm sorry that it's so long.
First, a little bit of background. I've been with this guy for a little over 2 years now. However, we've known eachother and been very good friends for about 7 years. His first love was with a woman that was very unloyal to him. He has come home early from work and found her with another man, and manipulated him in other ways. She would always beg for forgiveness, and tell him how much she cared for him (ahem bullshit... ahem). I have seen her screw over everyone that has ever crossed her path and his family agrees. It seems that her lies and bullshit has given my guy alot of insecurities when it comes to women. I love him with all my heart, and he has even brought up the possiblity of marriage in the future.
The problem is, everytime we reach a new level of our relationship, he does something to fuck it all up and push me away. (I am majoring in psychology, and so I try to find the root of the problem.) The conclusion that he seems to agree with, is that he has a hard time trusting women after this girl, and so he subconsciously tries to screw up, so he wont feel as bad if I leave him. He thinks he is not good enough for me, and doesn't want to get hurt, so it will soften the blow if he's the one at fault for the breakup. I have told him that I love him with all my heart and i never want to do anything to hurt him, I can see him making me happy for the rest of my life.
The past things he has done have been minor. Recently however, I found out that he had been e-mailing the elusive ex-girlfriend for the past couple months. They started off... relatively innocent, growing incresingly sexual, and even talking about personal problems that I was having and gripes about our relationship and our kinky sex life that she was intrested in ("in a big way"). She is married now, and has a new baby, and in the last few e-mails they had exchanged phone numbers and the very last one he told her to give him a call the next time she's in town, and he'll make up an excuse so the can go off and have sex basically.
When I found these, i was FURIOUS! He was actually crying more than me, telling me that he was glad that I found them before anything happened, and it will never happen again and so on. He sounded incredibly sincere, he has never cheated on a girl but I told him if it (or anything like it) happens again, I am marching out the door and never looking back.
Since this has happened last week, he has been mentioning marriage more, (even to his mother!) and there was a family reunion kind of thing that he was really excited for me to go to, I met aunts, uncles, cousins, everything...and said things like how I fit in well with them and it seems that they all really like me. I think he might really mean it. I know he wont propose anytime soon, we both want to wait 4-5 years before we get married to anyone, but is it possible that it's in the cards and it will work?
Although I love the idea of us being together forever, I still have it in the back of my mind that something like this will happen again. I think he may have hit a bottom, is it possible that he gets it now, and will stop pushing me away? Even if it doesn't work out between us because we grow in different directions, i'm okay with that, i just don't want it to end because of something like this bullshit. I don't know what i'm asking for in this post. Just some insight from another point of view mabye. Thank you so much!

 

[SweetErika]

Welcome to posting.

I'm curious as to what else was going on that would encourage you to violate his privacy by reading his email. Or, did he print them out and leave them around for you to find?

There'd have to be something MAJOR happening for me to read my husband's, even though I have full access and an open invitation to be in there (as he does with my stuff). I still ask permission or let him know when I'm logging in, just as a matter of habit and courtesy. Maybe I'm weird that way, but I just can't imagine looking at anything other than what I'm there for, or reading his correspondence without an invitation.

It also seems odd that he'd jump to sex with her, especially after what she did to him. All of the men I've heard from who have been hurt by being cheated on won't do that to another guy, even if they don't like him, too. I'd wonder if he'd already cheated with her or others, and if maybe that was an inherent flaw in him. I certainly wouldn't count on him turning over a new leaf.

It sounds like your guy is trying to put a bandaid on it with commitment, getting you involved with his family, etc. Smart girl, NOT jumping into marriage for quite a few more years.

Why would it be okay for you if this relationship doesn't work out? I've got a hunch there are some gut feelings there.

With trust issues and him cheating (intent counts in my book), I'd require individual and couples therapy. He clearly has issues to work out before he can be a healthy partner, and so do you as a couple.

 

[vre_11]

I'm curious as to what else was going on that would encourage you to violate his privacy by reading his email. Or, did he print them out and leave them around for you to find?

I had gone to bed before him as usual, and woke up before him... as usual. When I got on the computer, he had the screen minimized, and when I clicked on it to close it, I saw what it was.

It also seems odd that he'd jump to sex with her, especially after what she did to him. All of the men I've heard from who have been hurt by being cheated on won't do that to another guy, even if they don't like him, too. I'd wonder if he'd already cheated with her or others, and if maybe that was an inherent flaw in him. I certainly wouldn't count on him turning over a new leaf.

I have known him since his first girlfriends. Serious or not, he has never cheated on any of them. He did used to sleep around a bit with random girls, I think he got out of that phase quite a while before we got together. It puzzles me too that since he does know what it's like to get cheated on, why he would even think about it. I also think that this might be one of those fantasies that sounds hot in your mind, but when it boils down to it, you probably wouldn't do it, but I could be wrong. We were having ups and downs in the relationship when the e-mails started, so I think he wrote most, if not, all of them after an arguement. (which is no excuse) He was very forward and up front with me about everything I asked him... He said that the idea of sleeping with a married woman was a turn on, plus the problems we were having, and since we were having problems, it lowered his esteem and caused him to try to ruin the relationship by screwing up. The problems we were having were not that I was unhappy with him, I was unhappy with some very stressful situations I was having and I'll admit, even though I didn't mean to, I took some of it out on him.
The ex was also jealous I think because she saw us together a couple weeks before the e-mails and she tried to talk her marriage up, but you could tell that alot of it was just bullshit, and she really wasn't happy with the guy. I think she tried to fuel problems in our relationship, because I also had a past with her, and really... she is absolutely nothing but trouble. I even e-mailed her about the e-mails... or I think she e-mailed me first, and she brought up things that had nothing to do with the e-mails, trying to justify herself... like why we quit becoming friends and she tried to turn me and my guy on eachother. Just random bullshit to try to start stuff. I didn't tell her husband because she has a child now and I didn't want to be responsible for that. They'll probably get divorced soon anyway from what I've heard.

It sounds like your guy is trying to put a bandaid on it with commitment, getting you involved with his family, etc. Smart girl, NOT jumping into marriage for quite a few more years.

It really doesn't seem that he's trying to make things better by showing me he's up for commitment. I asked him if he wants to end the relationship, he blurted out a desperate 'NO!' We visited his dad and stepmother the next day, and it was like she read our mind on what was going on. (She is a Psychologist) and it seemed alot of the conclusions we came to could be quite possibly true. We told her nothing of the incident, she was jsut giving random relationship advice. On the drive home, we were talking about it, he brought it up, about how happy I make him and so on... I told him that he has the potential to make me happy for the rest of my life as long as he wants to put forth the effort too, and since, he has brought up marriage a few times. and sounds genuinly excited to spend his life with me. I think that he finally does realize that I'm not her, and I'm not going to do what she did to him.

Why would it be okay for you if this relationship doesn't work out? I've got a hunch there are some gut feelings there.

What I meant by this was, that I know we are young, and although now I feel like there is no other man for me out there that would make me happier, I realize that I am young. I still have growing to do. I feel that we will grow together, and want nothing more than that, but since I am young, I don't want to jump into things, you know? I think I have always felt that there is something different about him. We had sex a few times early on in our friendship, and I felt a connection with him that I had never felt with any other guy, even when I didn't love him (or at least didn't realize it). I don't mean just a sexual connection, I mean we do have great chemistry, but an emotional one... right from the beginning.I would be devestated if we broke up, but I feel that if we do, we will continue to be friends forever, and although it will be a different love, I will have a place in my heart for him for life, just like my first love. There's a reason you fall in love with someone, unless they totally fuck you over, I don't see why you can't be friends.

Sorry for talking so much, I have a tendancy of over-analyzing things...

 

[Exciteher]

...because I also had a past with her, and really... she is absolutely nothing but trouble....

I have the same questions SweetErika has.

You know ver_11, sounds like no matter what you tell yourself, your fed flags are waving. Which is why you must have posted here. (Welcome!)

Given you have known this woman, and I would assume your b/f must have seen at least a glimpse of her and her antics before he got involved with her, I think you have to ask yourself how or what in your b/f attracted him, or compelled him to marry his ex in the first place???

And not only that , but why he put up with all her crap, and given that, why the hell he cheated with her behind your back. Ironic he would complain that she wounded his trust in women, given that he chose her. And he put up with the instrument of his "abuse" for so long .. and not just once, but now twice?

I do not buy the "she made him not trust women" theory of why he is pushing you away, not by a long shot. This sounds like a manupliation or rationalization.

Here is what I think... bottom line. He chose her because he knew she was not really emotionally available... this is what attracts him to her now, and why he always (and it is always... is it not?) pushes you away when things get close.

He is not ready, and is not "finished" or resolved with whatever it is in him that attracts him to women like his ex.

Why is he like that? I have no idea, but he must have had "that" BEFORE he met her... so, as much trouble as she may indeed be... remember it takes two to tango.

Erika is right, I think individual and couples therapy is a must if you are serious about this relationship. Because you also have to ask yourself why you are atracted to a guy that was attracted to a girl that behaves (blatently it appears) like her.

Listen to your inner voice, your gut.

 

[vre_11]

well... the girl at first... you don't realize how she is. if you could automatically tell, she would never make friends. she has an addictive personality and it takes a while to learn not to believe her bullshit.

i think you guys make very valid points. and i will talk to him some tonight.
i will ask him if he thinks he is ready for us. if he really wants it. i have to hear from him that there is no doubt in his mind that he will not do this ever again. i'll ask him if there's anything i can do so he doesn't do this again, if there's anything that i'm not doing that's causing this. i have to get to the bottom of this.

i am so scared to lose him. i know i don't need him, but we are each other's best friends. i can't (or don't even want to )imagine not being with him at this point in my life. i was starting to feel happier than i have since i was 13. i feel like everything is where it needs to be now. this is not all because of him, but i feel like he fits with me right now. i feel like... at least right now... we should be together. it feels right. yet not.

 

[vre_11]

....

 

[Exciteher]

.....i'll ask him if there's anything i can do so he doesn't do this again, if there's anything that i'm not doing that's causing this. i have to get to the bottom of this.

Get it out of your mind that you did anything to "cause" this. No matter what problems you two have had, HIS BAD AND DISHONEST CHOICE in this case... was his and his alone. You cannot ask him what you can do "so he doesn't do this again." Only HE has any control over any of that. YOU CAN however TELL him what YOU will do if he does it again and if he does not get with the program. If he cannot be as intimate with you as you need... or want to put in the effort to try.. you will have your answers. No matter what he says, what he does will be the way you "get to the bottom of this."

i am so scared to lose him.

Yes, we all understand, we have been there, wish there were better answers.

Maybe it is time for you to let go for now, this incident is but one moment. Watch what unfolds. See if he makes the changes he has promised you. His actions will speak louder than any words, let the truth of his PATTERN of behavior be your guide.

i know i don't need him, but we are each other's best friends. i can't (or don't even want to )imagine not being with him at this point in my life. i was starting to feel happier than i have since i was 13. i feel like everything is where it needs to be now. this is not all because of him, but i feel like he fits with me right now. i feel like... at least right now... we should be together. it feels right. yet not.

Invest yourself in everything that makes you happy... not just one part of what makes you happy. Tell him what you need, watch what he does. Either he can get close to you... or he cannot. If it feels "not right" for too long, it is not all a loss, it just means you one step are closer to the time when "it feels SO, SO right".

....

awww.... hang in there. Take an emotional "time out" if you need to... visit with friends. Let us know how it goes.

 

[vre_11]

Maybe it is time for you to let go for now, this incident is but one moment. Watch what unfolds. See if he makes the changes he has promised you. His actions will speak louder than any words, let the truth of his PATTERN of behavior be your guide.

I spoke with my aunt last night. She knows him pretty well also. She thinks that I should let him try to work this out, because he's the only one that can. I decided to not bring it up to him right now... see how things go. We've already discussed it alot, and things seem to go better now. He was really down on himself about it last night, but I crashed pretty much as soon as he got home.

 

[Starbuck69]

I wish you luck with what happends, my wife when we first started living together accused me of seeing some one else for some time because her ex cheated on her, and no I never did cheat on her, even though I thought about it one time after a long fight with her telling me that I was, I thought what the hell Im already getting in trouble for it so why not, but after I cooled off and then started thinking about just how much I love her so I never did and after about two years it never even crossed her mind again.

But what he did was wrong, dead wrong and there was nothing that you could do to have made him do it, it was all him and he needs to work that out.

And if you are having problems like that already I think you should be very carefull and lesson to you gut.

It can work but he is the one that needs to change, and yes my wife and I have now been happily married for 19 years, so it can work if the two of you really do LOVE each other.

It takes time to change and as Exciteher said "His actions will speak louder than any words, let the truth of his PATTERN of behavior be your guide."

 

[silverwhisper]

did this thread get moved here from somewhere else?



vre: sounds to me like he was thinking threesome and is covering, frankly.

ed

 

[Exciteher]

did this thread get moved here from somewhere else?



vre: sounds to me like he was thinking threesome and is covering, frankly.

ed

Think it got moved from "HT" to here, glad you noticed that too SW, I was about to caulk it up to to my senility.

Jeez, now if I could only figure out where I left my car keys..lol!

 

[vre_11]

Yeah, I thought I was going a little crazy too.

I read all the e-mails, there was no mention of a threesome, and although I'm sure he'd be all for it, lol, he knows I would never do it with her especially.

I think what Starbuck mentioned sounds like a nail on the head. Since we were fighting, he was scared I was going to leave him, and at the time I was going through... I don't know a quarter life crisis or something, I had to get my life straghtened out, and I accused him of trying to cheat a few times (right before all this started) It seems my life has straightened out, we stopped arguing and there wasn't any follow ups to the e-mails since we've improved. I think things are going to turn out okay, and if they don't... I'll kick his ass to the curb. I don't need him (or any man), I want him, and now he knows the consequences if he fucks up again. It's his loss.

 

[Starbuck69]

That sounds like a good plan, and good luck