Pain, a facet-nating(msp intended) thing

[RJMasters]

Oh the many facets of pain! Pain, a mysterious jewel in life, which even the most valuable diamond would be envious of. There are so many facets to pain, and I would like to start a discussion on it.

Here are some thoughts to get it rolling, take it where you will.

Pain is used to describe so many things:

A broken leg is painful, Birthing pains, Emotional pain, Physical Pain, I even heard tell of a window pane, but since I don't do windows I will skip this one.

What is it that makes pain so painful? And how is it that pain can be used so many different ways to bring about so many different results? What is this thing we call pain? To stop and ponder it can be overwelming. How can one embrace pain in one moment, but flee from it the next?

For me Pain is life's tool neither evil nor good and can be used for both. It is like one big swiss army knife with a million gadgets. It has a tool(facet) which is perfect for almost any situation in life. Take for instance an infected sore... what do you do? Love it to heal? Hell no! You get a scrub brush and scrub the hell out of it with some iodine and cleans it. Painful? Hell yeah. A pain which brings cleansing so that healing may result.

Pain also to me is life's great announcer. As an example, I think of a woman giving birth. Amazing such a beautiful result of such pain. Or when a bone breaks, oh the pain! But its just life way of saying, hey I'm broken! I think pain as an announcer, as I secretly also think that "mending" is either lazy or asleep, and it is pain's job to wake mending up at the appropriate time. After the pain, mending comes and mends that which is broken.

Pain to me is also a Vehicle. A means for transportation. Emotionally and Mentally from one destination to the next. It allows us to escape the physical and transend into something more than what we can taste touch and feel. Dom space/sub space need I say more?

Pain to me is a way to measure and test the endurance, courage, love, and devotion of another.

For me there is a purpose for pain, and I never have believed that pain is for pain sake alone. For ever facet of pain there is a purpose for which it is intended to be.

However, the greatest result pain can yeild IMO, is the bonds or bonding that occur between those that share some facet of pain together.

There was a saying in the marines that goes like this...

"The bonds of honor, respect and loyalty are formed in the trenches."

And it is struggling through the pain together, which these fine and noble words of honor, respect and loyalty derive their meaning.

Pain is an awesome thing to ponder its complexity. It is both terrible and beautiful at once. It is a mystery and one of life most precious, if not interesting jewels.

I leave you with this parting thought and hope you all will jump in on this thread and contribute your thoughts and ponderings of pain.

Never laugh or mock another person's pain, as it is just life's way of trying to mend someone who is broken.

Peace to you A/all.

 

[serijules]

Nice post, thank you.

I like pain. My favourite implements are the cane and the bullwhip. Why? Because they are pure pain play. The people that I play with that use these implements on me are not people I submit to but bottom to, so while I always treat them with the utmost respect, I do not submit to them. I submit to the pain. This seems to open up that part of me that *loves* pain, and the places I go and the things I take are incredible. Painful, yes, but incredible.

When I am playing with my dominant, my ability to handle pain is much much lower. Her quirt on me can make me cry in a matter of minutes. 10 strokes of the cane are almost too painful, where I can take dozens and dozens usually. I submit to her, thus, I submit to the pain, and take it for her. But it's painful.

If I stub my toe, or break a bone, or whatnot...I'm a complete and total wimp. Hell, it's painful!!

For me, pain is all in the mind. The physical aspects of it are irrelevent.

Emotional pain is a whole 'nother chapter. That one starts in the heart though.

 

[graceanne]

Pain can also be a warning. A warning to stop. So you have to be careful with S/M play, and learn the differences between, ow that hurts, and OW YOU NEED TO STOP NOW.

 

[RJMasters]

I submit to the pain. This seems to open up that part of me that *loves* pain, and the places I go and the things I take are incredible.

Pain is like a human can opener, or perhaps a good onion peeler.

It peels the outter layers so that the inner most part of our being may be exposed and touched. It appears this exchange strengthens you and your inner-being. You take a certain pride in your ability to endure and that is very interesting.

If that is what you meant, thank you. If that is not what you meant please share a bit more, I would like to understand.

 

[RJMasters]

Nice

Pain can also be a warning. A warning to stop. So you have to be careful with S/M play, and learn the differences between, ow that hurts, and OW YOU NEED TO STOP NOW.

Pain is like a guardian at times isn't it? Or a great big STOP SIGN, or maybe more acurate a WRONG WAY sign.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[serijules]

Pain is like a human can opener, or perhaps a good onion peeler.

It peels the outter layers so that the inner most part of our being may be exposed and touched. It appears this exchange strengthens you and your inner-being. You take a certain pride in your ability to endure and that is very interesting.

If that is what you meant, thank you. If that is not what you meant please share a bit more, I would like to understand.

Yes, that is what I meant. The "layers" as you call them that are allowed to breathe are different though. On one hand, sometimes it peels back the emotional layers and just lets me enjoy *feeling* physically. That is when I enjoy pain play the most.

On the other hand, sometimes the emotional investment is so high that pain becomes almost unbearable....but the thrill of emotional release at that level is a form of pain play itself.

And yes, I do take pride in my ability to endure, thanks for noticing

 

[Kajira Callista]

pain only hurts because someone told you it did.

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

pain only hurts because someone told you it did.

Good response. I was wondering how long it would be before you showed up in this thread.

Me, I'm a masochist too. Pain I don't like falls under the category of illness and arthritis. Most other physcial pain is a surface sensation and it feels good. When it's inside it feels bad. Being cut a little can be pleasurable, being stabbed isn't.

Sorry if that's a bit confusing, that's the best sense I can make of it.

Mental/emotional pain is something I'm all too familiar with. Don't like it.

 

[shy slave]

Pain can also be a warning. A warning to stop. So you have to be careful with S/M play, and learn the differences between, ow that hurts, and OW YOU NEED TO STOP NOW.

I like this line: My mother has always said 'pain is natures way of syaying STOP!!!!'

Ahh if only she knew

Kajira~ I am not sure it only hurts because someone said it did, when He is on one end of the cane and my ass is on the other it BLOODY hurts, but only I have said so ~ funny He nevers agrees with me!!

Pagen~ I agree mental /emotional pain is true hell. Physical pain is a pleasure and a pain. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it sometimes I hate it so much but want more when it stops. I guess I confuse myself never mind anyone else.

Serijules~ When the physicl pian starts to peel back the layers it can give emotional freedom to cry about those things that have been stored up because of emotional / mental pain.

And it is struggling through the pain together, which these fine and noble words of honor, respect and loyalty derive their meaning.

RJM Its been said many times in our vanilla lives that shared pain can make or break a relationship, the ultimate pain being the death of someone close the the relationship. Many couples grow stronger at this piont and many fall apart.
In D/s the maso/sadistic side can make a bond stronger if everyone in the relationship wants that level of physical pain, if not then it falls apart.
More and more I notice parallels between D/s and vanilla, as if one prepares us for the other and vice-versa.

Interesting thread

 

[DreamsSurrender]

Honestly I never found myself to be into pain but it was never a limit either,lately I have been going more into some S/m but I want to avoid emotional pain. Its funny how one could get turned on by pain sexually...but also wanting to avoid it at the same time,isn't it?

 

[graceanne]

I guess I should explain why I put what I put. I enjoy pain, to some extent, I'm not as masocisitic as some. But I have crohns disease, which means I have problems with ulcers in my colon. Hubby and I have been wanting to try anal sex, but have been afraid to. Last night we tried, but had to stop when it started hurting. I bled lightly the rest of the night. I'm glad that I listened to my bodies signals, because I can't afford to relapse.

 

[RJMasters]

Yes and thats because...

Well the point of this thread is to discuss the many "facets" of pain. Sometimes we talk around "It", and often it remains in the background of our thinking in some kind of foggy haze.

I like to snatch those things and bring them to the surface for a sharp focus.

I appreciate Callista's response and Pagan's follow up. But as soon as Callista posted, I drew crosshairs to it. Was just waiting for more responses to come in to address it properly.

Your response is short and clear, if not an equally conditioned response.

pain only hurts because someone told you it did.

pain doesn't hurt only because someone told you it didn't.

This of course is a symatics game to skirt around the subject at hand, but I am glad it was offereed as it does give others a new way to view pain, or to even question what they have been taught. This to me is a good thing which can only stir growth so thank you Callista.

Pagan's response however is more than just symatic and tries and succeeds in describing what pain really is. Its a sensation.

What I find so amazing about it, is that one word is used to described so many different types of sensations. Some good sensations, some bad, but so many, so many!

I personally think the sensation of "pain" is very real, and shy slave's response is delightfully honest when she says it hurts when her ass is being whipped.

Many of us skirt pain and have our own defenses when it comes to dealing with pain of any kind. I don't fault for this, but I do encourage to sometimes give credit where credit is do.

Pain, no matter how you want to define it, is real, or the sensation there of.., and that is why it so powerful. It's force is capable of tremendious re-shaping power.

I am not trying to deify pain, but to give pain its proper due.

Parting thought for now... There are things in life that should be nutered, "pain" shouldn't be one of them. It should be as shocking as being hit in the face with water from a cold mountain stream. Stunning you at that moment, but refreshing afterwards. The reward for dealing honestly with pain can be great indeed.



PS: Callista, excuse my attention and focus upon you in this reply, as my days of Gor draw me affectionately to your name. Me thinks you will have no problem with the extra lavashed attention.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Pain

It is a needed thing (at least for me). It relaxes me, all of me, all over. I can drown in it, wallow in it. Relish the feeling of being ALIVE. It is more than the sensation. It is more than the snick or swap of a flogger, a crop, a strap. It is my body's response to being FILLED. It is the way I begin to feel human.

The sensation can be small (a stubbed toe, a slammed finger) and yet my response is the same as a big hurt (a flogged bum, a face smack). I lose ME and become something more, something better. I thrive there, in that place of dark reds, burning heat and bruises. It is that little beast insde of me that requires these things. These things are air to me.

On the other hand: emotional pain or purely physical pain for punishment, is NOT my cup of tea. I can not use it on my pets. I adore them too much to set out to hurt them more than they need. To teach, to expand, to help them grow..yes. But to hurt for no reason...no can do. It is not the type of Dominant I want to be.

Luna

 

[RJMasters]

Big Grinz Luna

No dodge here! A sweet example of embracing the reality of pain and thank you for sharing the effects.

The feelling of being full of life... I can think on that for some time.

It is a provacative(sp) thought. [wiggling eyebrows]

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Yes and thats because...

Well the point of this thread is to discuss the many "facets" of pain. Sometimes we talk around "It", and often it remains in the background of our thinking in some kind of foggy haze.

I like to snatch those things and bring them to the surface for a sharp focus.

I appreciate Callista's response and Pagan's follow up. But as soon as Callista posted, I drew crosshairs to it. Was just waiting for more responses to come in to address it properly.

Your response is short and clear, if not an equally conditioned response.

pain only hurts because someone told you it did.

pain doesn't hurt only because someone told you it didn't.

This of course is a symatics game to skirt around the subject at hand, but I am glad it was offereed as it does give others a new way to view pain, or to even question what they have been taught. This to me is a good thing which can only stir growth so thank you Callista.

Pagan's response however is more than just symatic and tries and succeeds in describing what pain really is. Its a sensation.

What I find so amazing about it, is that one word is used to described so many different types of sensations. Some good sensations, some bad, but so many, so many!

I personally think the sensation of "pain" is very real, and shy slave's response is delightfully honest when she says it hurts when her ass is being whipped.

Many of us skirt pain and have our own defenses when it comes to dealing with pain of any kind. I don't fault for this, but I do encourage to sometimes give credit where credit is do.

Pain, no matter how you want to define it, is real, or the sensation there of.., and that is why it so powerful. It's force is capable of tremendious re-shaping power.

I am not trying to deify pain, but to give pain its proper due.

Parting thought for now... There are things in life that should be nutered, "pain" shouldn't be one of them. It should be as shocking as being hit in the face with water from a cold mountain stream. Stunning you at that moment, but refreshing afterwards. The reward for dealing honestly with pain can be great indeed.



PS: Callista, excuse my attention and focus upon you in this reply, as my days of Gor draw me affectionately to your name. Me thinks you will have no problem with the extra lavashed attention.

My response was in no way a conditioned one, it happens to be the easiest way to describe my view of pain, which has btw always been my view of pain...before my first bdsm scene, before my first Master before my first "rough sex"encounter. so the statement "pain doesnt hurt only because someone told you it didnt" doesnt apply here RJ. And yes im sorry to say that i do have a problem with the extra attention as i view it as a negative thing in your post.

 

[RJMasters]

Ahhh my favorite!

Foot sandwitch doh!

I wrong to have said such. I never mind admitting I was wrong when I am.

As to you taking offense to the extra attention. I hope the above will suffice and pardon my offense.

If not, I will more than welcome a PM to resolve the matter.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Re: Big Grinz Luna

No dodge here! A sweet example of embracing the reality of pain and thank you for sharing the effects.

The feelling of being full of life... I can think on that for some time.

It is a provacative(sp) thought. [wiggling eyebrows]

ahh thank you. Tis a difficult thing to seperate my need for pain as opposed to my inate need to control and dominate those I care for. The two are not mutually exclusive but sometimes it feels as if they are.

 

[Netzach]

Q: if the undergoing of pain is such a marvelous teacher, such a bountiful area of growth and understanding, why do we view it so often as an activity only apropos for submissives?

Not that *I* view it this way at all.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Q: if the undergoing of pain is such a marvelous teacher, such a bountiful area of growth and understanding, why do we view it so often as an activity only apropos for submissives?

Not that *I* view it this way at all.

Until recently I never thought of the need to feel pain as a dominant thing at all. It has always struck me as inately submissive..the giving up of control of one's self..letting another cause that sensation to one's body.

I don't know when or even if that thought (or mind set) changed..but I am getting better at combining these two sides of me (the pain slut and Dominant femme).

hmmm good question...

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

Q: if the undergoing of pain is such a marvelous teacher, such a bountiful area of growth and understanding, why do we view it so often as an activity only apropos for submissives?

Not that *I* view it this way at all.

Good question. Any de Sade reader knows that this "pain is for subs only" attitude is a relatively modern phenomenon. de Sade described several scenes in which the Tops were flogged or otherwise hurt by a bottom at their command.

Maybe that's my thing; I'm just old-fashioned. I know I have a taste for an ancient/old world style already in some things.

 

[RJMasters]

Q: if the undergoing of pain is such a marvelous teacher, such a bountiful area of growth and understanding, why do we view it so often as an activity only apropos for submissives?

Not that *I* view it this way at all.

Before answering I too will say ""Not that *I* view it this way at all. As I know there are facets of pain that are good for me to endure that helps me grow as a Dom. I am a cross between serijules and Luna. However offer the following to be torn or digested.

I have stated that pain is real, or the sensation of pain is real. The realness of it is what makes it so powerful. Hence, it is a power which if properly understood, can be weilded effectively to produce desired results. I think that this is the underlying current of thought that you hint at. A Dom/me who masters the art of delivering pain for the purpose of yielding a specific result or even fill a specific need is using this "power" as a tool(see original post about swiss army knife). Hence, the Dom/me masters pain, rather than letting pain master them. Or better said, Dom/me masters some facets of pain, which is probably more acurate.

However, part of this thread is design to open minds for new thought about pain. Again I cite Luna as a perfect example. She uses pain as a tool "when neccessary to teach, to expand, to help them grow." as a Dominate, but also understands there are other facets of pain which she herself can derive pleasure from and grow.

As I said, Pain is a facet-nating thing. We have only begun to scrtach the surface, and yet I am truely blown away from some of the posts and questions thus far.

Thank you all for participating.

I have a follow up question to this one, but would like to wait for more response.

Ty NZ for that interesting question

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Pain...

For me as an individual, pain is seldom a good thing. Over more than 50 years (including many, many years as a baseball/softball player, coach, and umpire, which has caused problems with my knees), I have some arthritis in parts of my body, have had 1 1/2 heart attacks (went in for periodic tests, was on the verge of a second attack when they went in and ballooned me to prevent it), plus the damages caused by a few semi-severe auto accidents. So, there is not a day or hour - and hardly a minute - when some part of my body does not hurt to some degree. For the most part, I simply ignore it. I don't have the time to let it bother me. When it gets bad, then I deal with it. Otherwise, I work around it.

With my pyls of the past, I have used pain both for desired sensation and for punishment. Much depends on the context of the delivery of the pain. If it is done in an environment and context of something she wants, then she can take much more - and enjoy it - than when it's done in the context of punishment, in the specific place set aside for discipline, which includes discussion between us of the behavior that created the situation, and how she will ensure it doesn't recur. In that case, she often is crying before the first impact; if not, the amount of actual pain necessary to bring tears is much, much less than she willingly and happily takes in a play/scene situation.

Therefore, I would suggest that, for most people, pain is a very subjective experience, and that much of its effect is derived not from the actual degree of sensation but from the circumstances surrounding it.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Good question. Any de Sade reader knows that this "pain is for subs only" attitude is a relatively modern phenomenon. de Sade described several scenes in which the Tops were flogged or otherwise hurt by a bottom at their command.

Maybe that's my thing; I'm just old-fashioned. I know I have a taste for an ancient/old world style already in some things.

my exmaster taught me to do hurty things to him just the way he liked it done and directed me when he wanted it to happen...nothing extreme just little enhancements for him. i never thought about it then or questioned him wanting that but the thought of it now bothers me a bit ...weird eh?

 

[RJMasters]

Re: Pain...

Therefore, I would suggest that, for most people, pain is a very subjective experience, and that much of its effect is derived not from the actual degree of sensation but from the circumstances surrounding it.

Ty you Winston for addding to the mix here.

I agree with you in the context you made your statements. Seems serijules also brought that out in her posts as well.

Pain, or experiencing the sensation thereof, is subjective and depends largely on the state of mind of the one receiving it. I also think it varies from person to person as to tolerance of pain.

For example, take a needle in the arm. Administered exactly the same to two different people. Should it not create the exact same measure of pain from an inanimate object point of view? But interesting that it is the individual, who recieves the shot that determines really how painful the shot is.

An interesting point for Dom/mes to ponder, and requires careful dilegence not to become a creature of habit. What works for one may not work the same for another and may even vary for the one from moment to moment giving thier current mindset.

The subjectiveness of pain is a safety cache preventing stagnation for the careful observer, and can ensure an element of aliveness or a sense of newness even if this is the 100th time you deliver a well placed cane pole smack on the rear of the one before you.

 

[RJMasters]

Emotional pain

So far everyone has stirred pretty much away from this subject. It appears that most view emotional pain as a negative thing. Any thoughts or expamples of how emotional pain can be a good thing?

This may be cliche(sp) but the saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder".

Not that I agree completely mind you, but kinda throws out something to get the ball rolling.

Can emotional pain be good? If so, what kind and why?