Out of Control

[SweetGigi]

So I am reading a new book. Now I've never been one to read self help books, but I have to objectively look at myself and understand that a change needs to happen some where; and if a book helps to facilitate that then why not at least give it a go?

I am gonna post an excerpt from the book below and I'd like to get some feed back on the information. The blurb is really positive and very enlightening, however I would like to see what those of our lifestyle think about this line of thought and get a D/s perspective on it. I look forward to your input. Thanks, y'all.

(Oh, and don't be overwhelmed, I know it looks like a lot, but I promise it reads quickly. About 5-10 mins, honest.)

A MISTAKE ALMOST ALL WOMEN MAKE WITH MEN... AND
WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT...

There's one mistake that almost all women
make with men they're interested in.

This particular mistake is the source of so
many different problems women have in their
lives and relationships, that dealing with it
should be a healthcare benefit or something.

Ok, maybe that's a little extreme, but you
get the point.

And by the way, men make a similar mistake,
but it shows up in different ways.

The mistake is allowing yourself to become
OVERLY EMOTIONAL around the person you're dating
in a negative and self-destructive way.

So then what happens?

The short-lived emotional outbreak that was
only a big deal to you at the time, finds a way
to screw up the great situation that you have
going.

What's going on here with how men react?

Why do some men make such a big deal out of
having strong feelings, caring so much and wanting
to talk and share?

The truth is, doing these things is showing
the man that you're EMOTIONALLY OUT OF CONTROL.

And nothing says "RUN" to a guy more clearly
early on than these intense negative emotional
"episodes" and an out-of-control partner.

Let me remind you of something important...

When most women start dating a great guy, they
have a whole slew of POSITIVE FEELINGS, IDEAS and
BELIEFS about where things are going and how they
might work out.

These are common, satisfying and exciting
thoughts.

And often times, it's the power of these
positive feelings that are the catalyst in helping
women look past the FEARS and NEGATIVE FEELINGS
from past situations and move into something new.

In other words, these POSITIVE FEELINGS and
BELIEFS become the driving forces to "try it
again."

In this situation, lots of women tell
themselves in the back of their minds:

"I'm smarter now."

"This time it's different."

"I'm over that bad period of my life where I
let jerks and immature 'boys' mess up my life."

"This guy wouldn't hurt me the way that other
jerk did."

But the reality is that lots of women who
tell themselves this aren't actually "different"
or "smarter" at all.

The only thing that's changed is the scenery.

Instead, they still carry the FEARS and
NEGATIVE BELIEFS that hold them back from creating
new situations and experiences in their lives.

But then it happens...

In the new situation, with the new guy, things
suddenly stop being so easy, so new and so
"perfect."

And eventually something seems "off" or goes
wrong here too with the new guy, even if it's
something small.

And "WHAM!"

All the old fears and negative beliefs come
rushing back out of nowhere.

That familiar sick feeling in the stomach is
back.

The guy problems they thought they had left
behind followed them here too.

So they FREAK OUT.

They become anxious and those voices start
playing in their head again.

"There must be something wrong with me."

"There are no good men... they're all selfish
jerks and I'll never find one who gets me and can
really love me for who I am."

"I'll never find true love, so I should just
give up and stop putting myself through so much
pain."

I bet you've got a few of your own here to add
to the list from that negative voice in your head.

We all do.

And you know what?

All of these are utter and total CRAP.

Here's what I've learned about these voices...

When these negative voices start getting
louder, most women leave behind the confidence,
"positivity" and optimism they had with a man that
helped create the great situation in the first
place.

And they literally become DRIVEN by fear.

All the goodwill disappears and is replaced by
defensiveness and negative sensitivity.

This is what it's like having ZERO control of
your emotions.

And guess what?

This is 100% "GRADE A" MAN REPELLENT.

Men do not want to get involved or committed to
women who act emotionally dependent from the start
and "lose it" at the first sign of difficulty.

When most women see the first signs of trouble
or that a man is acting "non-committal" after
becoming close and "invested" in the situation,
they FREAK OUT inside.

When a man doesn't call back or starts to
withdraw, they get upset and afraid and act in
fear.

When a man doesn't share the same feelings at
the same time in the same way, they become nervous
and unsure in everything they do with a man.

The point I'm making here is that if you allow
yourself to become TOO emotional and fearful in
situations with men, and dependent on their
behavior for your emotional state, it will screw
you up.

Guaranteed.

And even worse than letting your emotions
control you and your behavior is trying to TALK
men through all of the emotions and fears.

This is a nail in the coffin.

Think about it for a second...

Most men don't even talk through their feelings
or fears with their BEST FRIENDS.

Men prefer to confront, challenge, ignore or
break through fear in some kind of masculine way.

Anything but observe or share fear. It's not
part of their make-up.

I know it doesn't make sense, but it's the
truth.

Get where I'm going with this?

But hold on a second...

Emotions are GOOD, right?

Shouldn't we listen to them and respect what
they're telling us?

Doesn't a man need to be there for his woman if
she's going through something?

Aren't emotions the thing that allow us to
really EXPERIENCE life in a deep, rich and
meaningful way?

And isn't it wrong and harmful to try and
"control how you feel?"

Isn't it better to just "be who you are" and
not beat yourself up because you feel or think
about things in a certain way?

And wouldn't ignoring or avoiding your feelings
turn you into someone you're not?

Have you ever heard a woman (or a man) say "I
can't help the way I feel"...?

We all have.

We even have TERMS that we use to describe when
we're overly upset and just need to "get it out."

We call it "venting" or "dumping."

I call it the "drama vomit." lol

So here's the question I'm getting at...

Is it "OK" it to be upset, to get emotional,
and to show EXACTLY how you feel inside with men?

YOU CREATE WHAT YOU SHARE

To make things simple, let's put emotions into
two categories...

There are those that you could consider
"positive" emotions or those based in "joy."

And then there are "negative" emotions. or
those based in "fear."

In other words, there are the emotions that
make you "feel good" and emotions that make you
"feel bad."

We all know that emotions aren't
"self-contained."

Isn't it frustrating when you feel angry or
down and you just want a man to hear you and
listen to you - but then they get all wrapped up
and intense just because you wanted to share?

Well, if you've ever had this happen to you and
you got frustrated or angry about it, then you've
got something important to learn.

Emotions are CONTAGIOUS.

In other words, when you feel an emotion, you
can very easily pass what you're feeling on to the
person you're sharing it with.

And the stronger you feel the emotion, the more
it will "override" the other person and get them
on your emotional level.

Even if their level is CONSTRUCTIVE and
POSITIVE and yours is DESTRUCTIVE and NEGATIVE.

And when an emotion starts to become too
strong, it literally TAKES OVER your mind and
body.

Then you're driven with your body language and
your words to share that feeling.

In some situations, this can be a very
powerful, POSITIVE thing for a person.

Imagine your favorite actor or singer giving
a world-class performance... you can literally
FEEL the emotions they're feeling.

Or how about when a man surprises you with a
romantic night with candlelight and he's open,
connected and sharing himself with you.

It can be an amazing experience when they allow
their emotions to take over. And you get to go
there with them.

But it can also be a very powerful NEGATIVE
thing as well.

Have you ever been spending time with a guy
and he became LESS CONNECTED to you as you were
becoming MORE CONNECTED to him.

It probably made you so nervous, anxious and
out of control that you made yourself sick.

When an emotion becomes so strong that it
actually "becomes you", your behavior and your
sole motivation... then you're out of control.

Emotions can actually trick you into trying to
CONTROL others, just to get back to where you feel
comfortable.

And instead of simply communicating what it is
that you're going through and what you want, you
actually try and make the other person FEEL the
bad things that YOU FEEL.

Ouch.

And sure, the short-term payoff for this is
usually some sense of immediate relief or
resolution.

You get your feelings off your chest and get
to release them, which can feel great at the time.

But the long-term effects aren't so sunny.

So let me ask you...

What if your quality of life and your
relationships could be BETTER than the negative
emotions and fears that hijack your mind?

What if you made a man feel a deep sense of
LOVE instead of sharing the contagious NEGATIVE
EMOTIONS that come from your fears?

And what if you broke out of those same old
patterns that keep happening again and again?


FEAR AND THE UNCONSCIOUS POWER OF EMOTIONS

Strong emotions create strong MEMORIES.

We tend to remember things better if we were
feeling a strong emotion at the time.

Especially if the memory came during or after
an intense emotion.

I can remember so many situations in my life
where I was too nervous and afraid to share myself
completely with a woman or to "be myself."

So I kept one foot out the door and I'd never
say much about what I really wanted and needed in
a relationship.

It was my secret excuse and my way of staying
unhappy so that I didn't have to fully commit to
creating a great life with the woman and take any
responsibility for my own experience or the
woman's.

I can vividly remember situations TEN YEARS AGO
where I was so nervous and uncomfortable when
relationships became serious that the emotion
burned the image into my mind.

When this kind of thing happens a lot (like it
has with me), it starts to make a "feedback loop."

In other words, most of the strong memories I
had about relationships with women were situations
where I SCREWED UP and made myself feel unhappy,
unheard and uncomfortable... so as the years went
by, I had less and less comfort and confidence
that I could never feel happy in a long-term
relationship.

Give me a nod here if you know what I'm talking
about.

THE "EMOTIONAL ATTRACTION" THAT WILL MAKE A MAN
ADDICTED TO BEING CLOSE TO YOU

I'm sure you've already figured out that I'm
going to suggest that you learn how to "own"
your emotions in situations with men.

Let me talk for a moment about the reasons WHY
it's important to do this.

Remember, when it comes to ATTRACTION, all of
the "logic" changes.

You have to stop thinking about what you've
learned about being "in touch" with ALL of your
emotions and realize that a man's ATTRACTION isn't
triggered by you being EVERYTHING that you feel.

That's a nice fairytale, but it's a lie.

Your friends, your parents and your
girlfriends might give you "unconditional love"
and understanding in this way, but men won't
start to feel love, passion and connection with
you if you're playing out ALL the things you feel
with him.

So I have TWO good reasons why you need to
learn how to own your emotions around men:

1) If your emotions "own you" early on, you
probably won't even be able to talk to him or
date in a fun and spontaneous way that men crave.
You'll just be too FREAKED OUT to even get to the
good stuff with him - and God forbid, help him see
his way through all his potential hang-ups.

(Not that you want to...lol)

2) Men aren't ATTRACTED to women who let their
emotions control them all the time and drive
their interactions. This is ESPECIALLY true when
women act needy or overly sensitive to anything
the guy does or says. Overly needy women will
never figure out how to get to that fun, playful,
risky, passionate state with a man that brings him
close and spells "long-term girlfriend material"
in his mind.

We talked about the first reason already.

Let's talk about the second one.

Why don't men like women who are
overly emotional?

Because men NEVER feel ATTRACTION for women
that they can CONTROL.

The more control a man has over you, the less
ATTRACTION he feels for you.

The less of a CHALLENGE you are - and the more
PREDICTABLE you become - the less ATTRACTION he
feels. It's very simple.

To put it another way; if you're the type of
woman who lets her emotions TAKE OVER, then you
need to learn how to "own" them.

If you don't, you're going to have a VERY hard
time succeeding with men after a date or two.

THE FIRST STEP...

I think that the first step in learning how to
own your STRONG emotions is to realize how they're
created or "triggered."

Most strong emotions are TRIGGERED.

Something happens that "pushes a button" inside
of you and BAM!... the emotion happens before you
even have a chance to think about it.

But the fact is that these "triggers" have a
structure to them.

There are all kinds of little things that
happen during that "trigger."

One of the biggest insights that I've had about
these "triggers" is that they're usually caused by
making something that happens MEAN something
negative.

In other words, it's not the actual situation
itself that "pulls the trigger" or "pushes the
button"... it's what you think it MEANS.

For instance, let's say that you've met a
great guy, went on a few amazing dates, and then
he wasn't as quick to call you and make plans as
he was at the very start.

You wait a day or two, and he doesn't even
call.

What do you usually think?

"Maybe he doesn't like me. Maybe he has a
another woman. Maybe he's trying to avoid me.
Maybe he's withdrawing like those other guys
did in the past."

In other words, we make the fact that he
didn't call back MEAN all these different things.

Another HUGE insight I've had in this area is
that women allow their imaginations to take over
and imagine the WORST possible outcomes.

Then they get nervous about that outcome
happening and FREAK OUT.

The point is that most of us (men and women)
use our minds to imagine the WORST possible
outcomes for dating and relationship situations...
and it pushes all the wrong buttons, and gets us
all nervous and upset... which, of course, makes
us screw everything up.

When it comes to men, it's important that you
lose the need to make everything MEAN something...
and STOP imagining the worst.

Think about those situations when a man
doesn't call you back... or plays hard to get.

Yeah, thinking that someone is playing games
sucks, but the belief that there's a "game" going
on is exactly the kind of negative meaning I'm
talking about.

If you immediately start to wonder where he
is... what he's doing... and who he's with, you
create the game in your mind.

Then you make up pictures in your mind of him
out with other women, doing fun things without
you, etc., and it's really upsetting.

Bad idea.

This is the kind of thing that makes us do
all KINDS of stupid things that scare the other
person away... like calling 100 times a day,
asking where he was and what he was doing, etc.

Instead, start doing yourself a favor and:

1) Visualize your ideal outcome.

2) Make POSITIVE meaning out of the experience for
yourself.

If he doesn't call you back right away, imagine
that he is freaked out with his own life and
schedule (maybe his boss just threatened to let
him go), and make it mean that when he finally
DOES talk to you, he's going to be even MORE
interested because it took you so long to catch
up with each other.

If he tells you he's not ready for a
relationship right now because of his past,
realize that he's first of all feeling that way
because he REALLY likes you and has had to think
about being in a relationship because his
feelings are so strong.

He's scared of his deep feelings for you and
doesn't know how to deal with that yet.

And that once he figures it out for himself,
he'll miss you and want you... and you don't have
to be there waiting around for him to grow up.

There's nothing wrong with you or how you are.

And it's great that you got to see this problem
of his early on, and that it's his to deal with.

Does this stuff sound strange?

Well, I'll tell you something...

All of the women I know who end up in great
long-term relationships, with great attractive men
think this way.

This is their mindset.

Have you ever noticed that confident people
seem to get more confident...

That optimistic people tend to get more
optimistic...

That people who believe in luck seem to get
more and more lucky...

And that people who are negative seem to become
more and more negative?

It's almost like a universal magic. The more we
expect things to go well, the better they go. Try
it; it works.

Also, start noticing those particular things
and situations that trigger your strong "negative"
emotions.

Learn to spot the signs that it's about to
happen, and then learn how to keep yourself
centered.

If you can learn how to do this, the quality
of ALL your relationships in your life will
improve DRAMATICALLY.

Especially with men.

Now, this is just the tip of the iceberg, so
to speak.

It's also important to learn how to improve
your self-image, overcome FEAR, maintain your
emotional and physical attractiveness, and
communicate using your "truest" indicator of
desirability to a man - your body language...

Then you can learn how to learn, grow and
stay connected with a man in each and every
situation that comes up.

It goes on and on but this is the basic jist of which I would like to get your input. Thanks again, y'all.

 

[intothewoods]

I'll have to go back to it later. The overuse of ALL CAPS is too distressing to me. THAT MAKES ME FEEL OUT OF CONTROL AND LIKE I AM BEING YELLED AT.

I tend to not place a lot of value on pop psychology. What's the research behind the advice? This sounds like an episode of Oprah, which I love, but I don't need to read a book on Oprah. That's what my dvr is for.

 

[SweetGigi]

Yeah the caps get to me too, but I just have to work through it, ya know?

This man is a field tested and extremely successful matchmaker who was tired of watching good women be unlucky and unhappy in love. So he took ten years and researched all the things women do 'wrong' in relationships that scare men off. It has received rave reviews, so I thought why not?

 

[TeachMeSir]

I remember you mentioning this book.

I am not a big fan of following self-help books like they are scripture. Which I know is not your intent.

It seemd a great book to help someone look into their own motivations & feelings.

I need to read this trhough again & think about it some more.... but let me try & phrase what I get from it.

It is not saying that men want a woman who does not feel. Your empathy can be a stregth as long as it doesn't rule your life. But nor does a man, or really any partenr or friend want to feel responsible for someones moods. You do well at owning your decisions & thus your reactions & moods.

While I agree with what was written to a certain extent... I fear that some others less in tune with themselves would take this to mean that they were to put on the "ice-queen" facade. And this just leaves the partner wondering if they are cared for at all. This has obvioulsy never been an issue for you & I don't see it becoming one.

It's a matter of balance, showing rational emotions. Even though past hurts have conditioned a person to have a negative feeling, swining like a pundulum from the positive feeling of a new relationahip to the negative feelings of "I'mgoing to loose him", or "what is wring with me" can introduce issues from pervious relationships that have no place in the new one. But I know it is hard to start with a clean slate. Expereinces help us shape who we are. You shoudl not deny yourself the wisdom of personal experience, but one needs to be aware that what is past is past & this is a different relationship.....

I'm starting to ramble & confuse myself .... so my apologies.

Look after youself, own your decisions & emotions, love yourself, not inspite of yourslef but because of who you are. And in doing so you will become more desirable, appreciated, loved, respected. This is what you deserve. Belive it.

 

[SweetGigi]

Thanks, SS.


I'm sure Carlos will agree with you.

 

[WickedEve]

I didn't read the entire, long post, but...

I can tell you about my personal experience with out-of-control emotions. I informed my Dom from the beginning that I was functionally insane and that I was full of drama, moody, etc. He took this as a challenge, I suppose. He went through some emotional Hell with me. Then things improved. I got control of the negative emotions and fears that I had pent up in me from past relationships. Actually, I guess he was the one who got control over me and helped me in that way. I honestly believe I need a dominant partner in my life. I tell him often that he keeps me grounded and without him, I'd just float away.

But I still share my emotions with him. They're just more in control now -- most of the time. Actually, if I get to overly emotional, he says a good flogging will fix it. Hmm... Anyway, it usually does. It relaxes me, relieves stress, helps me focus and, well, I just like it.

 

[FurryFury]

Okay, I spaced out a bit while I was reading it but here is what I think.

Consciously working on sending ourselves positive messages is an important thing because most of us are unfortunately filled with negative messages. Said negative messages are often on an unconscious level and well as a conscious one.

People tend to believe their internal dialog and think it's "true." In many cases it's not. When it's negative it's usually not true.

When people believe the negative crap they have stuck inside their minds, they tend to think consciously working on replacing those "truths" with positives is wrong and a lie. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do expect my SO to be able to hear me when I'm positive or negative and deal with just listening to me. I also expect him to get pissed if I without important feelings from him.

That doesn't mean I expect either of us to wallow in said feelings. I don't expect him to "fix" the feelings. That's a toughie because most guys want to simply fix things for the woman they love.

So, in conclusion I moderately agree with what I perceive the post is saying.

Positive affirmations and thinking is great.

Emotions neg or pos are all okay. What you do about them is what's important.

You can change negatives into positives if you work at it hard enough taking those baby steps I talked about. I know because that's how I have changed (at least outwardly), from being painfully shy to outgoing.

Now I need to work on some self image. Some of you have met me. You probably would be shocked by what I see when I look in a mirror. I need to work on that.

 

[FuckMeEyes]

If this were posted on a couple of other boards I frequent, everyone would ask for a 1.5 (summarize all of that in 1 and a half lines) and never read it. Good thing I'm a quick reader. I'm selecting some bits to give my own opinion on it, as a man, but not trying to represent all men. Although, I'm sure the passage fits quite well with typical men. I also don't think this fits most women as some sort of rule book.

Why do some men make such a big deal out of having strong feelings, caring so much and wanting to talk and share?
Some is right. All of the decent guys I've ever known agree with me that we're not mind readers. If something is wrong, communication is key. Besides, no person is measured by how well they fare through the best of times, rather how they brave the worst storms.

In the new situation, with the new guy, things suddenly stop being so easy, so new and so "perfect."
At which point, for me, the relationship starts to feel more real, which is what I want anyways.

Men do not want to get involved or committed to women who act emotionally dependent from the start and "lose it" at the first sign of difficulty.
Depends on the "difficulty," but no I don't want to be with a woman that falls apart over every bit of stress. Especially if they have no desire to try to work through the difficulty.

Most men don't even talk through their feelings or fears with their BEST FRIENDS. That's kind of sad... Am I being too Emo?

Doesn't a man need to be there for his woman if she's going through something?
Some of us actually enjoy that.

There are those that you could consider "positive" emotions or those based in "joy." And then there are "negative" emotions or those based in "fear."
Is this guy the inspiration for Patrick Swayze's character in Donnie Darko? Where's all the gray that lies between?

And sure, the short-term payoff for this is usually some sense of immediate relief or resolution. You get your feelings off your chest and get to release them, which can feel great at the time. But the long-term effects aren't so sunny.
I agree, only because this makes me think of girls that dump their emotions on me instead of discussing them. The kind of dumping that doesn't care what I think or what advice I have to give, but they want me to listen and care. Well, sharing my opinion and offering suggestions is my way of showing my care, so it's a foreign concept to me to sit back and do nothing. I just don't live my life that way.

When it comes to men, it's important that you lose the need to make everything MEAN something... and STOP imagining the worst.
Absolutely agree! Men are supposed to be strong, have thick skin, be able to take it on the chin, and yet we're also expected to tippy toe around someone else's emotions? Most of us grew up taking our fair share of jabs from our friends and yet somehow everything we do means something about the relationship and that women should take what we say very personally. Last I knew there was still a line between joking about a girl being chubby, because we think it's silly of her to keep talking about how grotesque she looks and calling her fat, because we're jerks.

Also, start noticing those particular things and situations that trigger your strong "negative" emotions.
I view people living in negative and positive lights. Some people are drawn towards those on the opposite side of the tracks, to varying degrees. Although I like the message of being more positive, I don't think it's for everybody. It's just what I prefer; someone positive.

 

[Homburg]

Because men NEVER feel ATTRACTION for women
that they can CONTROL.

The more control a man has over you, the less
ATTRACTION he feels for you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*snort, choke*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*cough*

Okay, I'm better now.

*snicker*

No, really.

Seriously though, there's some good stuff in there for certain types of personalities. It's probably self-selecting. If your personality works like that, this will be a good book. If not, it won't. Personally, I don't have too much trouble talking about my feelings, and I don't have trouble hearing about feelings from my partners and friends. Doesn't bother me, and, as I have a vested interest in their emotional health, I consider it a damned good idea to listen.

Then again, I've been told before that this is a trait that makes me different. So perhaps I have answered my own question and self-selected myself out of the group what will find this book useful by virtue of the fact that I'm male, and don't fit the demographic it refers to within my gender.

 

[YourCaptor]

I didn't read all of it, only about 1/4, but this looks like crap, I wouldn't take this book too serious.

For one, all "problems" listed hear come from one simple issue, and that is picking the first guy who shows interest in you. Real interest, not no stings attached night interest.

Anyway, that guy is not someone special, thats just another guy.

Love is something else entirely. Actually one way to test if you have love is to do all these and then see if you are still holding hands when you come out the other side.

 

[rida]

There are good things in what he says, but I would like to point out what I think is the major flaw:
Motivating healthy changes because you want a man instead of because it is good for you is not going to work.

Leaving that aside, he has a couple of very good point:
Own up to your emotions and do not dump them on your loved one/ones
Do not let the power of negative thinking make self-fulfilling disaster prophecies come true.
Do not speculate on worst case scenarios without having facts (and I would add: give the benefit of the doubt and take things at face value).

Now for my personal view:
It is hard to have a successful relationship if you don't like yourself, if you don't love yourself. If you think you are not worth it, you will not be worth it. If you think you do not deserve to be loved and cared, you will not be loved and cared. It is true that there are bad, selfish, commitment-phobic men out there, but I believe we attract what we believe we deserve. So first step is to believe yourself worthy of what you seek.

As how to handle yourself once you have met potential mister-right. Yes, you do not want to scare them away. But you do want someone that can deal with you ... the all of you: the good and the ugly. At the same time you also have to understand that most of the time men indeed react in a way that is different than women. So knowing how to talk to each other and listen to each other very important.

-> major generalization ahead <-
When facing a problem, men want to DO SOMETHING AND FIX IT; women want to TALK ABOUT IT. The reason thou is that because what if it can be fixed, or they really want to fix it, women do it right away. And when they want to talk about it, they might not be ready to fix it yet and they are just sounding themselves out. Men, on the other hand tend not to see a problem until it gets to the point that it need fixing, or they are ready to do so. And as such the realization of a problematic issue comes with the need to take care of it. (The Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus book is not totally off mark.)

Ultimately it comes down to communication. And honesty. And trust. Sound a lot like the requirements for a successful PYL/pyl relationship, isn't it?

(a book that I though very insightful on relationships without being a self-help book is A Bridge Across Forever by Richard Bach)

 

[madetotakeit]

I agree about the overall message of being more positive. Easier said than done. With the number of self help titles at the local book stores I would say it is very difficult for someone who is negative by nature to be able to actually become a positive based thinker. This strikes me more of teaching yourself to present an image of being a positive thinker rather than actually becoming one. It comes across to me as a bit manipulative, kind of "What to do to snare and keep a man" rather than what you can do to help yourself. I think it is key to find peace within yourself rather than how to train yourself. Addressing the root of the problem will also address the issue the above covers. Too much emphasis is put on what to do to keep the man rather than what to do to find happiness in yourself.

I also have issues with him suggesting the blanket statement to always assume there is nothing negative going on. I've always been one to take factors into consideration, but at the same time that nagging voice or gut instinct if you will is there for a reason. To let you know there is a bigger picture, there is something you need to look into.

IMO if a relationship gives constant fears and causes the doubts to come spewing forth uncontrollably then there is something wrong with the relationship. Yes, the problem may stem from the woman, but it can also be that the two were not meant to be. Think about it, if we weren't meant to date multiple people before we find the one who would you be with? It's part of the learning experience of being human.

There are those that you could consider "positive" emotions or those based in "joy." And then there are "negative" emotions or those based in "fear."
Is this guy the inspiration for Patrick Swayze's character in Donnie Darko? Where's all the gray that lies between?

After reading this I couldn't help but hear Patrick Swayze saying all of that. Good but strange, strange movie. Killer soundtrack too.

 

[faeriefire]

Some of this makes sense to me and some of it seems like hogwash. Basically I think it's ok to be female and to let emotion guide me. Feelings, urges, hunches have led me to made some serious decisions, some good, some bad. I'm not big on spreadsheets or risk analysis for every choice I make. Just the big (financial) ones. If I feel like processing something I know which friends are cool with that and can respond with questions to help me clarify the issue. And I dunno. There are some guys who love to know how a lady's mind works, want to hear what she's thinking, constantly asking for her take on things. Then some would prefer more non-verbal communication of the grunting variety, a few bows and kneeling thrown in for good measure And some lie between.

I'm definately not a fan of someone else fixing my issues. But help is nice. I really value the friends who can cut through my spinning thoughts and say: so what's really important here? what are the pros and cons? what has you frazzled? what about this situation is making you feel on top of the world? why are you off-balance? I don't want someone to tell me how to think or what to think. Self realization is good, and if someone helps me get to a conclusion faster all the better. I dislike the thought of being needy in the whiny, clingy, emotionally bipolar way *shudder* That said I think it's important to share both good and bad with a significant other. For me I'd much rather have a sounding board than a Mr. Fix-it. And Cro-Magnon man definately won't cut it.

I like that the post made me think. The bit about game-playing I'll think about some more, cuz I've definately projected that kind of thing on friends. I don't intend to go buy the book or to take it verbatum as truth. But I like that it's got people thinking, myself included. Cool post, Gigi.

 

[Netzach]

Um, I've seen many many more men punishing new women for the baggage of their past rels. than vice versa. I may be biased, but I don't see this as an especially female tendency to repeat the past, we just worry about doing it more.

Yadda ya, be positive, love yourself. Not much to negate there.

 

[SweetErika]

I got a ways through it, thinking the point was just around the bend.

WRONG!

It seems to be aimed at women who do crazy things at the first sign(s) of perceived trouble. You know, the ones who blow things out of proportion, pick fights out of FEAR, get upset when plans go awry, may be prone to fishing for compliments, being too clingy or stalkerish behavior, etc.?

Yeah, of course that shit is a turn off.

Bottom line, I've got to have a partner who will embrace my sensitivity and need to share my excitement, hurt, gush and whine every now and then. I try to keep it to sharing appropriate amounts at appropriate times with the appropriate people (not gonna bitch the whole night early in the relationship, or ever, really). Of course I don't want my partner to hurt, but I love being able to be fearless enough to share the things that cause me fear and pain, knowing they'll listen and support me, and vice versa. Gladly taking on some of the pain and having a shot at making it a little better is intimate and caring.

I guess I'm just looking for people I can censor myself less, not more, with.

 

[snowbyte]

tl;dr

The most common mistake that women make about men is to harbor the belief that they can 'change' him. Most other mistakes are predicated on this one.

And Yes, this is a gross oversimplification.

 

[intothewoods]

This seems more like dating advice rather than relationship advice.

At the end of the day, both men and women project their own issues onto their partners. Each person needs to become conscious of those issues, and own them. Otherwise the cycle is repeated with the next partner, and on and on.

 

[kinkyknickers]

I dunno, I can see the point but as far as I'm concerned my biggest mistake with relationships to date is relying too heavily on what my friends or family think.

Ergo, not too many people know about my current relationship... ergo I am only involved with two people, not 102.

Much better.

KK.

 

[FuckMeEyes]

After reading this I couldn't help but hear Patrick Swayze saying all of that. Good but strange, strange movie. Killer soundtrack too.

Yeah, great soundtrack and yes a strange movie. I've watched it three times and I'm finally getting it. There's so many references within itself as to the meaning of the whole film. The book they discuss in class, about the kids burning the house and leaving the money, was the piece that made me say, "ah-ha!" I think it's very well done, as complicated a film as the emotions seem to feel that young teenage boys feel at the point where Donnie Darko is portrayed.

 

[Caitlynne]

Um, I've seen many many more men punishing new women for the baggage of their past rels. than vice versa. I may be biased, but I don't see this as an especially female tendency to repeat the past, we just worry about doing it more.

Yadda ya, be positive, love yourself. Not much to negate there.

I agree. There was/is a lot of gender bias in the original excerpt.

That said, I do think that a major mistake [maybe not *the* major mistake] of both males and females is that they are not capable of handling their emotions and they do require emotional rescue.

The sense that if one 'feels' it, it is someone else's to fix. Which for the most part is hog wash. Our feelings are our own to deal with. No one is obligated to rescue us from our own emotions. To think so, is to be out of control.

That's not to say that what others do doesn't influence how we respond emotionally, because emotional responses are in fact part of human interaction. But I do think that the mistake many [both male and female] make is to think that those reactions are something another must rescue us from.

 

[the_pet]

~quote~

The more control a man has over you, the less
ATTRACTION he feels for you.

~end quote~


....tell that to my SO when the more helpless i become the more raging hard his dick gets.

throw the book away and be yourself!


crazy bitch and my SO knows it
pet


P.S. I do applaud you for your desire for self-improvement.

 

[minx1]

A MISTAKE ALMOST ALL WOMEN MAKE WITH MEN... AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT...

There's one mistake that almost all women
make with men they're interested in.

The mistake is allowing yourself to become
OVERLY EMOTIONAL around the person you're dating
in a negative and self-destructive way.

So then what happens?

The short-lived emotional outbreak that was
only a big deal to you at the time, finds a way
to screw up the great situation that you have
going.

What's going on here with how men react?

Why do some men make such a big deal out of
having strong feelings, caring so much and wanting
to talk and share?

The truth is, doing these things is showing
the man that you're EMOTIONALLY OUT OF CONTROL.

And nothing says "RUN" to a guy more clearly
early on than these intense negative emotional
"episodes" and an out-of-control partner.
Let me remind you of something important...

When most women start dating a great guy, they
have a whole slew of POSITIVE FEELINGS, IDEAS and
BELIEFS about where things are going and how they
might work out.

These are common, satisfying and exciting
thoughts.

And often times, it's the power of these
positive feelings that are the catalyst in helping
women look past the FEARS and NEGATIVE FEELINGS
from past situations and move into something new.

In other words, these POSITIVE FEELINGS and
BELIEFS become the driving forces to "try it
again."

In this situation, lots of women tell
themselves in the back of their minds:

"I'm smarter now."

"This time it's different."

"I'm over that bad period of my life where I
let jerks and immature 'boys' mess up my life."

"This guy wouldn't hurt me the way that other
jerk did."

But the reality is that lots of women who
tell themselves this aren't actually "different"
or "smarter" at all.

The only thing that's changed is the scenery.

Instead, they still carry the FEARS and
NEGATIVE BELIEFS that hold them back from creating
new situations and experiences in their lives.

But then it happens...

In the new situation, with the new guy, things
suddenly stop being so easy, so new and so
"perfect."

And eventually something seems "off" or goes
wrong here too with the new guy, even if it's
something small.

And "WHAM!"

All the old fears and negative beliefs come
rushing back out of nowhere.

That familiar sick feeling in the stomach is
back.

The guy problems they thought they had left
behind followed them here too.

So they FREAK OUT.

They become anxious and those voices start
playing in their head again.

"There must be something wrong with me."

"There are no good men... they're all selfish
jerks and I'll never find one who gets me and can
really love me for who I am."

"I'll never find true love, so I should just
give up and stop putting myself through so much
pain."

I bet you've got a few of your own here to add
to the list from that negative voice in your head.

We all do.

And you know what?

All of these are utter and total CRAP.

Here's what I've learned about these voices...

When these negative voices start getting
louder, most women leave behind the confidence,
"positivity" and optimism they had with a man that
helped create the great situation in the first
place.

And they literally become DRIVEN by fear.

All the goodwill disappears and is replaced by
defensiveness and negative sensitivity.

This is what it's like having ZERO control of
your emotions.

And guess what?

This is 100% "GRADE A" MAN REPELLENT.

I confess I didn't read all of it.

My first reaction to this is fuck me, live in a vacuum all your life, don't experience anything or feel anything and you know what, you _might_ just keep a man.

I hate the way its written; the stereotypes and the blanket one rule for all pisses me off. And actually thats a shame because I think there is some merit in it. Emotions can be difficult to explain, to deal with and are contageous....for both parties in a relationship.

We (men _and_ women) learn that 'negative' behaviour......its called living. Complex people with complex brains and emotions and pasts. The problem is with how some of us manage our emotions. I have problems with that myself. I just think its so simplistic to apportion the blame of relationship breakdown on the emotions of women. It may have relevence but if the relationship has any worth, it will not be that in isolation...surely.

If it were so easy to unlearn it, I would have done it by now. I understand where it comes from, how it manifests itself, what triggers it and how destructive it can be. Do I still feel it? Yes.
Do I believe I can learn to manage it better? Absolutely I do. But these types of behaviour, that have taken years to develop will take time to re learn.

The author says don't dump or try and talk things through.
They are my emotions and I take ownership of them but the reality of life is that other people and circumstances will have some bearing on them. I need to learn how to not let things affect me so much, how to feel secure in myself and my relationships with people. That is the answer, not bottling them up.

I want to deal with it but not in a way that represses it completely. I want to manage it...take control of it. But I still want to feel and not become some artificial, one dimensional character, who has to keep a feelings to myself for fear I might scare my partner away.

I _want_ to be able to talk to my partner about it. I don't want to dump on them, but I do want them to understand it and what can trigger it. I don't live in a vacuum...I'm human; I will feel negative emotions at times and the way we conduct our relationship can assist me in tackling it. Afterall its a relationship, where two people bring different things to the table; both positive and negative. He will have lived also and learnt behaviour or complications that I will in turn try to understand or accept.

As for a D/s perspective, I can only really comment from my own perspective but I can't see a PYL not wanting to know how their sub honestly feels. I know sometimes dealing with it (me) is a real ball ache and sometimes D may decide that he doesn't want to deal with it there and then. Usually if thats the case he will tell me its inappropriate and that we will discuss it later. Ultimately as my Dom he will suggest how best to deal with it and I trust him to be able to.

The author says nothing will see a guy off faster. Well If a guy is going to run purely because a woman is emotional then perhaps it speaks more about their character than it does yours.

Anyway...thats my perspective lol. Perhaps I should read it again.....incase I have ranted! *laugh*