Our pirated works on multiple sites

[MillieDynamite]

Okay, I wasn't looking for my work at other sites, but I found them. Several free reading sites have many of my works taken from other websites where I'm a member (including here). What's most disturbing is they even have some comments and my responses. Some are as if I posted them, and stories of mine in a collection. Others have someone posting my stories (with my copyrights and me credited as the author) under someone's account. Some guy named Thom or Tom at one site.

I have no idea how to remove them, and not sure it is worth the effort. However, a few are only available if you pay. I know we get this all time and have talked it to death. But I hadn't seen my works out there this way. At least it isn't someone making money off my stories. (Well, some sites have endless popups that I'm sure makes the jerk who runs the place bread)

 

[Emotional]

Ok question.

Does anyone take the time.to copyright their stories?

If not, can they say you actually stole it from them?

 

[MillieDynamite]

When you publish it for the first time, it establishes your copyright.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Ok question.

Does anyone take the time.to copyright their stories?

If not, can they say you actually stole it from them?

Generally they don't change my name as the author. They acknowledge I'm the author, but the creeps are still stealing my stories.

 

[KeithD]

When you publish it for the first time, it establishes your copyright.

*Sigh* Which, legally, means absolutely nothing in the United States. In fact, if you don't file a formal copyright on it and the one who swipes it does, it's legally theirs.

The answer is not to file a formal copyright (which involves money, not just time) and then post it for free on the Internet, because, legally, when you've done that, you've valued it at zero (you gave it away to the public for free). Chances are near zero that you would find someone real to take to court, even if you owned the copyright, which is required to take it to court in the United States. And even if you could, valuing it a zero by posting it to the free-use Internet, you wouldn't be rewarded more than zero. The answer is not to post your stuff on the free-use Internet if you want to control its use in any way.

Reality time.

 

[SimonDoom]

When you publish it for the first time, it establishes your copyright.

Not exactly. Under U.S. copyright law, you own the copyright in a story from the moment it's "fixed in a tangible medium of expression." 17 U.S.C. section 102(a). Publication is not necessary. The instant you save it to your computer hard drive, you own the copyright.

But KeithD is correct that it's a hollow right, for purposes of enforcement, unless you have registered the copyright, because you cannot commence an action for infringement of the copyright in federal court unless you have registered the copyright. 17 U.S.C. section 411(a). And my guess is that very few authors at Literotica are willing to risk exposure of their identities by seeking registration of the copyright in their stories.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not upset that much that they posted my work, and as I said, they gave me credit. I'm upset they didn't contact me for permission. But you're wrong; from the US Copyright Office, "Copyrights can be registered in the Copyright Office in the Library of Congress, but newly created works do not need to be registered. In fact, it is no longer necessary to even place a copyright notice on a work for it to be protected by copyright law."

It doesn't mean you can get money out of anyone, and I never said that I could or even should. And as you said, even if you paid for the copyright, you can't normally receive a payment if they aren't charging for the work. Even if they are, you normally can only have them removed from sale. As they aren't actually for sale, there isn't much to gain in a lawsuit. For that matter, asking them to remove the stories is a lot of effort and probably time. When my father's works were pirated, lawyers did the contacting, and things were removed quickly. But pops would never have hired the lawyers for work. His publisher did.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK and the EU, your copyright exists from the moment of completion. But like in the US, that copyright is unenforceable if you publish on Lit for free. You cannot claim a financial loss.

My stories have been pirated all over the world. the latest places are Turkey and Israel, but they are also in Germany and Austria (translated), the Czech Republic, and many sites in SE Asia.

Usually they leave my statement 'Copyright oggbashan'.

 

[RejectReality]

If you start, it's an endless task. Most of these people are based in other countries and then using services based in yet another country. If you do get them taken down, another or even another by the same person pops up just as fast.

If you want to enjoy watching one go away ( Just don't get caught up in the whack-a-mole spiral ) then start checking the Who-is information and anything else you can find out about the registrars, hosting, advertisers etc. The overwhelming majority of the time, plagiarism is but one of the rules they're breaking, and probably not the one that's most likely to cause fits to the people they're contracting services from, so leverage that. Report the plagiarism to pile on, but start with the other offenses. There's a high probability that they're also using other copyrighted material such as images coming from entities that have far more resources than you. If you can track that kind of thing down, you may be able to report them to those copyright holders and get someone else to do the work for you.

Concentrate on the most egregious one. Someone who's charging money, pimping something else with the stories as a draw, using it for malware distribution, etc.

For the sites crediting you by name, take it as free advertising. If they're not horking everything you have, then finding something good might encourage a reader to seek out more of your stuff and find you here. Even if they are posting every work you have available as fast as it goes up, people still may come looking for you, thinking there's a possibility of finding something new. Odds are that Lit has more to offer than these cheap fly-by-night sites, and they'll end up staying here.

 

[oggbashan]

Apart from the pirated works, many sites link back to Literotica. That is acceptable.

 

[KeithD]

I'm not upset that much that they posted my work, and as I said, they gave me credit. I'm upset they didn't contact me for permission. But you're wrong; from the US Copyright Office, "Copyrights can be registered in the Copyright Office in the Library of Congress, but newly created works do not need to be registered. In fact, it is no longer necessary to even place a copyright notice on a work for it to be protected by copyright law."

It doesn't mean you can get money out of anyone, and I never said that I could or even should. And as you said, even if you paid for the copyright, you can't normally receive a payment if they aren't charging for the work. Even if they are, you normally can only have them removed from sale. As they aren't actually for sale, there isn't much to gain in a lawsuit. For that matter, asking them to remove the stories is a lot of effort and probably time. When my father's works were pirated, lawyers did the contacting, and things were removed quickly. But pops would never have hired the lawyers for work. His publisher did.

Just stop it. You are giving other writers disinfomation on their functional copyright protection, which they nullified in any event by posting their work for free on a free-use, open Internet site. Posting the stories is fine to do if you aren't letting yourself be bamboozled by false protection claims (which I have accepted for my own stories with eyes wide open).

Just stop telling folks they have control and recourse they don't have. If they love playing whack-a-mole and don't mind the effort of the slight chance of getting the material taken down, that's just fine--but it's all bluff and it's sticking a finger in a hole of a leaky dam.

If you don't want to effectively lose control of your stories do not post them to a free-use, open Internet site.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Just stop it. You are giving other writers disinfomation on their functional copyright protection, which they nullified in any event by posting their work for free on a free-use, open Internet site. Posting the stories is fine to do if you aren't letting yourself be bamboozled by false protection claims (which I have accepted for my own stories with eyes wide open).

Just stop telling folks they have control and recourse they don't have. If they love playing whack-a-mole and don't mind the effort of the slight chance of getting the material taken down, that's just fine--but it's all bluff and it's sticking a finger in a hole of a leaky dam.

If you don't want to effectively lose control of your stories do not post them to a free-use, open Internet site.

I absolutely didn't say anyone had control to prevent or force anyone to remove anything. I said I hadn't a clue how you might accomplish the removal.

I did say my father's publisher had a lawyer force the removal of my father's copyrighted stories from websites that had stolen the work.

I love how you change what others say to make your point like you are. I don't, KeithGod, maybe! Is that your true identity?

I know you hate me and take every chance at belittling me. I'm glad I able to make your day!

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not upset that much that they posted my work, and as I said, they gave me credit. I'm upset they didn't contact me for permission. But you're wrong; from the US Copyright Office, "Copyrights can be registered in the Copyright Office in the Library of Congress, but newly created works do not need to be registered. In fact, it is no longer necessary to even place a copyright notice on a work for it to be protected by copyright law."

It doesn't mean you can get money out of anyone, and I never said that I could or even should. And as you said, even if you paid for the copyright, you can't normally receive a payment if they aren't charging for the work. Even if they are, you normally can only have them removed from sale. As they aren't actually for sale, there isn't much to gain in a lawsuit. For that matter, asking them to remove the stories is a lot of effort and probably time. When my father's works were pirated, lawyers did the contacting, and things were removed quickly. But pops would never have hired the lawyers for work. His publisher did.

I'm not wrong. You cannot commence an action for copyright infringement until you have registered the copyright.

"Except for an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A(a), and subject to the provisions of subsection (b),[1] no civil action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until preregistration or registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title."

17 U.S.C. section 411(a). The U.S. Supreme Court affirmed this view in 2019 in the Fourth Estate Public Benefit case.

Copyright distinguishes the ownership of a copyright from the ability to sue. You own the copyright from the moment you fix the work in a "tangible medium of expression." But you can't sue until you register it.

What this means as a practical matter for Literotica authors is that, while you can rattle the cage and try to get someone to stop their infringement without registration (and it may work--I've done this successfully), you cannot sue someone for infringement unless you have first registered the copyright.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm not wrong. You cannot commence an action for copyright infringement until you have registered the copyright.

"Except for an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A(a), and subject to the provisions of subsection (b),[1] no civil action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until preregistration or registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title."

17 U.S.C. section 411(a). The U.S. Supreme Court affirmed this view in 2019 in the Fourth Estate Public Benefit case.

Copyright distinguishes the ownership of a copyright from the ability to sue. You own the copyright from the moment you fix the work in a "tangible medium of expression." But you can't sue until you register it.

What this means as a practical matter for Literotica authors is that, while you can rattle the cage and try to get someone to stop their infringement without registration (and it may work--I've done this successfully), you cannot sue someone for infringement unless you have first registered the copyright.

I wasn't arguing that point. However, when I pointed out plagiarism of my work to Amazon, with a link to the free sites where it had been published, the powers that be there, pulled the pirated version from sales, and the offending author was gone. All of this within 24 hours of my reporting.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wasn't arguing that point. However, when I pointed out plagiarism of my work to Amazon, with a link to the free sites where it had been published, the powers that be there, pulled the pirated version from sales, and the offending author was gone. All of this within 24 hours of my reporting.

That's a good point. You don't have to have registration necessarily to assert your rights with an online publisher like Amazon. I've never registered any of my stories and I don't think I ever will but I contacted a publisher once when someone infringed my story and it was taken down immediately.

 

[Voboy]

Let's cut to the chase, OP. Exactly what remedy would you like to see in this case? What do you want to have happen?

Instead of just saying, "Our works have been stolen, FYI!" and expecting others to be as outraged as you, let's change the dynamic. What do you want? Tell us that, and we can probably give you some reasoned opinions as to whether it's possible.

Otherwise, it's just a complaint. Which doesn't really need a response IMO.

 

[MillieDynamite]

That's a good point. You don't have to have registration necessarily to assert your rights with an online publisher like Amazon. I've never registered any of my stories and I don't think I ever will but I contacted a publisher once when someone infringed my story and it was taken down immediately.

The great thing about a real publisher, as opposed to a mom-and-pop operation, is they see that you have a copyright that's purchased and in your name.

 

[KeithD]

I absolutely didn't say anyone had control to prevent or force anyone to remove anything. I said I hadn't a clue how you might accomplish the removal.

I did say my father's publisher had a lawyer force the removal of my father's copyrighted stories from websites that had stolen the work.

I love how you change what others say to make your point like you are. I don't, KeithGod, maybe! Is that your true identity?

I know you hate me and take every chance at belittling me. I'm glad I able to make your day!

Yes, well the way you talk about your father is part of why I think you are underage for here. Added to that is your claim to be a professional ghostwriter, which tells me you are full of shit.

Telling folks that their copyright ownership of their stories means a damn thing functionally or even legally in United States simply because the Berne Convention that the United States declined to ratify for a hundred years specifically on this point says they hold copyright upon creation is grossly uninformed and naive and false comfort.

Let's move on to another dose of reality on this issue:

The United States government does nothing to support anyone's copyright claims who has not obtained a formal copyright through application through the U.S. Copyright office (and you have to do in traceable name, so the comment further up the line that not many writing erotica or porn are going to do that is relevant here).

There's isn't any more reason that Amazon would decide who owns what without seeing this formal copyright from one of the claimants as well. There is no reason why a writer should expect them to. Why should they get embroiled in anything the U.S. government itself sidesteps so it doesn't have to try to expend resources making an impossible determination? When a Lit. author goes to complain that someone has stolen their work and put it on Amazon, how in the hell is Amazon supposed to know who's telling the truth unless they're shown a formal copyright? If they take something down otherwise they are making a guess, and it may be a wrong one. And it's the result of one bluff being better than the other one.

I've already suggested the two ways for assured response from Amazon. (1) already have your work published with them, which shows who submitted it to them first, or (2) point out it's being offered free somewhere on the Internet, which breaches the Amazon rules (but also can bounce back to restrict what the writer can do with it).

We're just lucky that Amazon hasn't just thrown its hands up and decided the aggravation of taking something that isn't covered by formal copyright (which is what most publishers do) and not taken self-published erotica at all OR that the thieves haven't wised to taking vast amounts of stuff stripped off the Internet and filed a formal copyright on it themselves before republishing it. When/if they realize they can do this, they can grab ownership of it.

Amazon isn't the evil guy here. We're just damn lucky they haven't closed handling self-published erotica/porn completely as more than a headache than it's worth yet.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Let's cut to the chase, OP. Exactly what remedy would you like to see in this case? What do you want to have happen?

Instead of just saying, "Our works have been stolen, FYI!" and expecting others to be as outraged as you, let's change the dynamic. What do you want? Tell us that, and we can probably give you some reasoned opinions as to whether it's possible.

Otherwise, it's just a complaint. Which doesn't really need a response IMO.

There are tons of stories on those sites, and several of the writers from here are on there. I don't see a happy ending to the story, they are sites bogged down with popups and malware waiting to gain a foothold on your computer. But for those wanting to republish my work, I'd appreciate them asking. There is no remedy when they don't. I get that. Despite some on here thinking I don't get it. I just would like a request when they want to publish my story before they do it. Odds are, I'll say yes.

 

[KeithD]

The great thing about a real publisher, as opposed to a mom-and-pop operation, is they see that you have a copyright that's purchased and in your name.

A real publisher is the one who actually files for the copyright (in the author's name) and at the publisher's expense. It's part of a REAL publisher's contracting of a writer's manuscript for publishing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Keith, I bet you had blue eyes until that shit you have backed in your system reached up and discolored them.

 

[MillieDynamite]

A real publisher is the one who actually files for the copyright (in the author's name) and at the publisher's expense. It's part of a REAL publisher's contracting of a writer's manuscript for publishing.

That's what the fuck I said, isn't it dipshit? Yes, it was! You're a fucking EB Farnum, aren't you, always repeating what others say in different words.

 

[KeithD]

That's what the fuck I said, isn't it dipshit? Yes, it was! You're a fucking EB Farnum, aren't you, always repeating what others say in different words.

No, you implied (before you edited your post) that getting a copyright was the author's responsibility when going with a REAL publisher. It isn't, and that shows that you don't know what is involved with going with a REAL publisher.

You are asserting expertise here you don't have. It goes with claiming you are a professional ghostwriter, when you show no knowledge (or writing talent or publishing experience) to have a clue how ghostwriting works in publishing (which in the field of erotica fiction would only be done for someone like Britany Spears and the ghostwriter would have deep writing talent and a whole lot of work to their credit that didn't reference their daddy a lot). All while you're sitting on daddy's lap.

 

[Voboy]

There are tons of stories on those sites, and several of the writers from here are on there. I don't see a happy ending to the story, they are sites bogged down with popups and malware waiting to gain a foothold on your computer. But for those wanting to republish my work, I'd appreciate them asking. There is no remedy when they don't. I get that. Despite some on here thinking I don't get it. I just would like a request when they want to publish my story before they do it. Odds are, I'll say yes.

Okay. So you're asking them for common courtesy, in other words. Seems reasonable, I suppose.

But people have been trying to force other people to be courteous for millennia. It still hasn't happened. So I'd suggest you're probably better off just accepting the disappointment.

I'd further suggest not posting a thread about that disappointment. Since this topic already has many, many threads about it, and all of them end the same way: in rancor. As you're finding out.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, you implied (before you edited your post) that getting a copyright was the author's responsibility when going with a REAL publisher. It isn't, and that shows that you don't know what is involved with going with a REAL publisher.

You are asserting expertise here you don't have. It goes with claiming you are a professional ghostwriter, when you show no knowledge (or writing talent or publishing experience) to have a clue how ghostwriting works in publishing. All while you're sitting on daddy's lap.

You can't actually read and comprehend what anyone but you writes. The bold part says the publisher purchased it in your name. I implied nothing about the writer having to purchase it. You’re a narcissistic asshole, is what you are! You really should get some professional help with that.

The great thing about a real publisher, as opposed to a mom-and-pop operation, is they see that you have a copyright that's purchased and in your name.