Orientation conflicts

[Pure]

Bb,

here's to ya

your dom needs to be reminded that, just as he does not dominate the world, for instance Tony Blair or Madonna, you do not submit to it, just to him.

some of this is due to vast overuse of the terms 'dom' and 'sub', PYL and pyl. and endless discussions of the 'born dom' and 'born sub.' these labels fly in the face of Sadeian tradition as well as psychology.

in 'vanilla' couples, you don't hear people say 'he's the [universal] Fucker and she's the [universal] Fuckee. And asking her, 'well, if you're the fuckee, why didn't you do the guys at Joe's barroom last night?'

we'd call it psychotic confusion if Mr. Smith, President of Smith Farming Machinery, Sioux City, also fancied himself President of the US, and began issuing orders to the troops in Iraq.

 

[O'Mac]

Good post Marquis. It makes me wonder about what the interupting parties actually feel towards their own orientation or submissiveness/Dominance.

Haven't had it happen to me or anyone I've brought, but if it did, I wouldn't hesitate to call the monitor.

 

[John Doe]

I'd simply say they (m subs) make you uncomfortable.

All the rest is rationalization or self-promoting bloviation.

Whether they resemble typical American PW'd Men or you resemble Donald Rumsfeld is neither here nor there.

That I dislike them or disapprove of thier motivations does not necessarily mean that they make me uncomfortable. That makes no sense at all.

And the rest isn't rationalization or bloviation, it's my opinion. If you don't like it, that's fine, but that's no reason to insult me.

But in fact my point was not that they resemble pussy-whipped men, but that they are more obvious about it. Y'know, how you're obvious about your stupidity.

 

[Pure]

i second, that,

marquis: I've also had my fair share of conflicts with the male subs. This is strictly limited to my experience of course, but I find that male subs often feel a lot of pressure to prove their masculinity to male topsiders.

i don't know how widespread it is, but i've seen it--a real 'bitchiness' or chip on the shoulder. i think it parallels what's seen in some subset of effeminate gay males, some transgendered MTFs--claws and the temperament to use them.

OTOH, when a group is consistently shat upon, including by alleged liberals, one sees how some (minority of) individuals get to be 'hair triggered' and less than mellow of disposition.

 

[DollieLlama]

ykinmk

i'm puzzled and a bit disappointed in the amount of conflict people have experienced and described here. i've been very active publicly, and privately, both as a collared slave and as a free submissive. Those who have challenged me, in any form or venue, have almost universally been males, alleging to be Dominants, but who were not. i would describe them as men with some sort of inferiority complex who found abuse to be the best way to increase their flagging self-esteem.

One of the elemental principles i was taught was "Your kink is not my kink"; shorthand for tolerance of all orientations. While i admit i am squicked out by male submission, i also would never dream of insulting or belittling a man who found his bliss along that pathway. And my submissive tendencies have nothing to do with that attitude.

We who know and practice the joys to be found in power exchange, pain and humiliation, service and domination are undoubtedly in the minority. It only behooves us to have tolerance and a live-and-let-live philosophy. Fortunately, this seems to be the ruling practice in the society of perverts in which i move.

 

[Pure]

question for the dollie llama,

what do you mean 'challenged'? what usually happens?

devoh taye

 

[DollieLlama]

Challenges

Pure:

What i was referring to was the questioning of the degree of my servitude/submissiveness, but also allegations that i had no self-esteem, was less than a whole person, was working out some sort of mental/emotional deficit through abuse-seeking behavior (often which the accuser sought to exploit for their own amusement).

And i do not refer to humiliation played out within the context of an consensual scene.

i am fortunate in that i have never had a Domme question why i would seek the role i do. i have had male submissives seek to have me top them, but i choose to view that as a misdirected compliment, rather than a castigation of my orientation.

In general behavior among my peers, Dominant and submissive, i have rarely witnessed the open attack of another based upon the part they choose to play. Certainly, people all have their own private views, and may express them within the confines of a personal relationship, but public confrontation is not something i have seen. What disturbed me in this thread was what i perceived as an attitude of intolerance, played out openly.

 

[Marquis]

marquis: I've also had my fair share of conflicts with the male subs. This is strictly limited to my experience of course, but I find that male subs often feel a lot of pressure to prove their masculinity to male topsiders.

i don't know how widespread it is, but i've seen it--a real 'bitchiness' or chip on the shoulder. i think it parallels what's seen in some subset of effeminate gay males, some transgendered MTFs--claws and the temperament to use them.

OTOH, when a group is consistently shat upon, including by alleged liberals, one sees how some (minority of) individuals get to be 'hair triggered' and less than mellow of disposition.

I can always count on you to keep it real!

 

[BeachGurl2]

I think for me the issue that comes up is that because I'm a type A personality and have opinions and am not afraid to vocalize them, people often accuse me of only playing at being submissive. Not just doms/dommes, but subs as well. My biggest problem is that I don't interact well with weak men - dom or not. I tend to challenge them constantly, or if they allow it, walk all over them. However, when I am with someone who is very comfortable in his dominance, I am a totally different person. A man who is strong and secure will have me on my knees in seconds. Between being fairly intelligent and pretty strong willed, I've yet to meet my perfect match in a dom. Interestingly enough, I've been told by a couple of doms from the dungeon that the reason other subs challenge my "subbiness" is because I am strong and that is a threat to their own submissive tendancies. Not sure I agree with that, but it sounds good. I get more of the negative from other subs rather than from doms/dommes.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

My thanks to Netazch, Pure & Quint for your insights. I shared them with the Dom in question and he was able to see how he "may have been wrong" in his way of thinking about my committment to my submission but would not conceed that my fearlessness might hinder my total surrender to him which is his goal. He does not mind my "aggressive form of submission" and believes that one day I will make a fine, strong submissive but in the mean time I must learn to follow direction.

So for me...onward.

Edited to acknowldege BeachGurl2 and her comments which fairly well sum up many of my experiences with Dom and subs alike...but I do have high hopes for this one.

d

 

[LadyAria]

I've never had an issue with female subs. I scene with both genders as a it has nothing to do with my attraction and interest in them.

Now, I can say other Dommes that are my friends...well...we have had competition in our social group. It is all friendly rivalry like sisters. I've only known of one person to take it seriously enough to take it to an inappropriate level.

 

[ammre]

I have heard of it from others but never run into it myself.

However, I don't think I could take a challenge from a guy who just had his balls run through with a nine penny nail all that seriously.

But, that's me.

i dunno, i think i'd be pretty damn afraid of the person with the nails through their gentials then many other people.


p.s. netzach your inbox is full.

 

[pandoravampire]

It has been my limited experience. That when my identity as submissive was questioned it was one of two things:
1) The 'Dom' was actually after a service top as they were attending their own personal path of discovery. That sub that looks like she could top? was a solution. They hid behind the smoke screen they created, and subbed. All very in the closet. And although i enjoyed this opportunity with a good friend. I do believe the scene negotiated was me subbing? But i just 'took over'.
Over and over, i was told by those around me. Your a 'born Domme for fux sake, people are in awe of you. You have that something". So i went were i was guided.
Now dont get me wrong. I had a lot of fun. But i kept thinking, i wish, just for once. Someone would put the effort into me, that i take, to provide for another.
I get my jollies from causing pleasure in others. As i went seeking a play partner, it was sexual pleasure. I like to 'do' things to make this happen. My social bdsm circle, that was small, was convinced therefor, i was Domme.
I was older than the group. Im a motherly type. But i dont take drama queens, bullshitters, or fakes. ergo another tick in the Domme box. I was my own self fullfilling prophecy.
But i got to know me and realised. That what i really need, is to submit. I am at my very core, his submissive. Im crap at it, im getting better. Im never going to be the easiest sub in the world. But hey, i can try.
It wasnt until i left behind my peers expectations of my identity, that i found this path. And im having a wonderful exciting life. I found that D/s lifestyle, can centre me like nothing else can.
So dont listen too much to what people make of you. Decide for yourself.