Opening Post

[Parzifal]

Hello, I'm new here so I figure a good way to introduce myself is by posting something.

This is something I wrote a few years ago.

It's called Ecstatica

Quickened, the revenant soul astride
A raging sea, a midnight tide
Wordless, soundless, speaking yet
Through frantic touch constraint defied.
Hard curves, soft lines as strangers met
Thieves of sins, from sins beget
A new and fierce moral play
And accepting this, no more regret

Down and marble juxtaposed
Through open lips and teeth still closed
A stolen gasp, a darkening blush
From tremors real and supposed
And still an urgent, violent rush
Consumed by hungry, sanguine flush
No sun yet petals open still
A fatal thrust, and then, a hush.

 

[kingem125]

its good.... here's whats good about it..... the word type and immagry and depiction/description is good.....but not a good word flow/rythem... maybe thats not what you were going for.... all in all its pretty good

 

[PandoraGlitters]

This has some good diction but there are too few verbs. I would take this out of poem form to edit, then make sentences that make sense. Ignore rhyme and form for about another 30 or 40 poems unless you hope to be a rapper in which case you should be listening to someone other than me. Poems, like other kinds of writing, are still expected to make syntactical sense. Make sentences. When you master that (but it may take a few years) then you can start using open punctuation. This is just my opinion, naturally, but it is given genuinely with the goal of improving your writing. I have been engaged in the process of improving my writing for most of my life so you're not in it alone.

Best wishes,
Dora

 

[Parzifal]

Thanks for the feedback. This is a poem I wrote several years ago as an experiment in cadence and rhyming structure. The cadence and form was largely intended to resemble Hilaire Belloc's Tarantella in the kind of breathless flow that it evokes. The rhyming structure is actually based on the drumming pattern called the paradiddle (AABABBAB).

I would strongly disagree with the assertion that poems need to be composed of complete sentences. I could link examples of many excellent and well known poems that are not in sentence form (Tarantella in fact would be one of them).

I've been a professional writer for the last twenty years and never once have I heard anyone insist that poems must be syntactically complete before.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Almost all published contemporary poetry is conducted in sentence form though it is true that there are many examples when poets use punctuation to take the place of verbs in certain instances (when the verb would just be asserting existence as in verbs of being, particularly when setting a scene). Generally, poets that use open punctuation use verbs rather than verbals in those constructs because verbs are stronger.

I gave my honest response and stand by that response, adding only that, after reading a second time, I do see the pattern you are creating--more or less a list poem. I simply think verbs and a little more clarity would make this stronger.

This is only the opinion of a reader. You can judge for yourself by reading my rough drafts here if you think I know any damn thing worth listening to. However, you may not even have been seeking feedback and I apologize for making the assumption that you were.

Generally, when a poet posts a single poem on its own thread, the poet is seeking some form of feedback. Please forgive if I overstepped and welcome to the Poetry Feedback and Discussion Forum on Lit.

 

[Angeline]

Thanks for the feedback. This is a poem I wrote several years ago as an experiment in cadence and rhyming structure. The cadence and form was largely intended to resemble Hilaire Belloc's Tarantella in the kind of breathless flow that it evokes. The rhyming structure is actually based on the drumming pattern called the paradiddle (AABABBAB).

I would strongly disagree with the assertion that poems need to be composed of complete sentences. I could link examples of many excellent and well known poems that are not in sentence form (Tarantella in fact would be one of them).

I've been a professional writer for the last twenty years and never once have I heard anyone insist that poems must be syntactically complete before.

I agree that poems don't have to be syntactically complete but I do think one needs to understand the basic syntax of the language in which one writes in order to deviate from it systematically and intelligently. Too often imho telescopic writing is the result of lack of understanding or editorial sloppiness by the writer. I have made that mistake plenty of times in my own writing.

I find your poem lyrical and dense (as in packed with image upon image). You clearly know your way around words and the lyricism recalls Romantic English poets to me. I prefer poems that are more spare and more specific, but that's just my taste.

Welcome to the forum and post more or join in some challanges if you want to work at your writing here.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

its good.... here's whats good about it..... the word type and immagry and depiction/description is good.....but not a good word flow/rythem... maybe thats not what you were going for.... all in all its pretty good

Actually I would say the metre was pretty good. Generally four beats per line though in a couple of lines I am scanning three.

Down and marble juxtaposed
From tremors real and supposed

Metre is quite difficult because one doesn't want to be singsongy yet formal works do require consistent application to some extent which leads poets to play with the unstressed syllables. The OP has done that well, here, I think, excepting these two lines. I particularly liked the last line of the first stanza that I scan as "and accEPTing this, NO MORE reGRET" which creates the effect of emphasis for me.

The Hilaire Belloc Tarantella was constructed in sentences that were amended with added details, it seems to me. Well questions, but sentence structure.

The whole theme of Tarantella is quite interesting as it seems to wind faster and faster to destruction. Thematically the poem works in this sense as the sex act is described as a fatal thrust. (It IS a sex act, right? Or do I need to read yet again?)

In all, I suppose this is quite a successful introduction in that you are bringing me back to the poem again for successive reads. Well and Ange is, too, with her description of the poem as telescoping images. Quite apt. We used to have an introduce yourself thread. Maybe we need to sticky a new one? Anyway, again, pleased to make your acquaintance. I look forward to reading more of your poems. You may enjoy writing on one of the challenge threads to try out some new things. Or post a challenge of your own if you feel the urge. Perhaps one pertaining to Tarantella?

 

[greenmountaineer]

The Hilaire Belloc Tarantella was constructed in sentences that were amended with added details, it seems to me. Well questions, but sentence structure.

I agree. "Do you remember? begins the poem, ends the poem, and is repeated several times. It has a subject, verb, and all the rest of the poem is a continuation of direct object phrases that answer the question remember what?. It may appear to be a poem that isn't composed of complete sentences at first reading because of its rhythm and acceleration. The poem is an excellent example IMO of intelligent deviation from common syntax that Angeline mentions in her post. Given the dominance of Do you remember? in the poem, the poet is able to expand the reader's attention without forgetting Do you remember (Miranda?) which anchors the poem, for me at least. Longer poems with run on sentences get me lost when I read them.

There may in fact be well-known poems that do not have complete sentences in them (or many of them) as the OP suggests. "In a Station of the Metro" by Pound and "Howl" by Ginzburg come to mind. As to whether they're excellent poems is a different matter that could involve discussion of many poetic elements, including sentence structure.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Ok GM, but in the first instance of Pound's poem, the punctuation does the heavy lifting and the verb of being is implied. Still makes syntactical sense (though probably the lack of verbs would not be sustained over a longer work). Leading us to Howl which in fact uses sentence structure throughout but deviates in fragments. I would love to see someone provide an example of a long poem that consists only of fragments. Hey, I'll owe you a beer if you can come up with it. Pinball is on you if you lose.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Ok GM, but in the first instance of Pound's poem, the punctuation does the heavy lifting and the verb of being is implied. Still makes syntactical sense (though probably the lack of verbs would not be sustained over a longer work). Leading us to Howl which in fact uses sentence structure throughout but deviates in fragments. I would love to see someone provide an example of a long poem that consists only of fragments. Hey, I'll owe you a beer if you can come up with it. Pinball is on you if you lose.

I'd like to see one too, at least one that has merit. I can't think of any, and only suggested it as a possibility. When I try to imagine one, I keep coming up with gerunds that keep multiplying in run-on sentence fragments. After about the fifth or sixth one I would feel like a pinball.

 

[Tzara]

I would love to see someone provide an example of a long poem that consists only of fragments.

You don't define "long," but Jackson Mac Low's poetry comes to mind as being often fragments rather than sentences. "Insect Assassins," for example.

You are welcome to claim that is either too short or "not poetry."

 

[PandoraGlitters]

You don't define "long," but Jackson Mac Low's poetry comes to mind as being often fragments rather than sentences. "Insect Assassins," for example.

You are welcome to claim that is either too short or "not poetry."

Great example, Tzed. It is quite fragmented but has the overall effect of taking one straight out of humanity into some other species' mindframe. I suppose in such a situation, human syntax would subvert rather than support the theme. Every standard has exceptions. Readers' expectations do not always have to be met.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Guess that means I owe you a beer, Tzara.

 

[Tzara]

Guess that means I owe you a beer, Tzara.

You gave in too easy.

Still, cue up one of these for me the next time I'm in your city.