Open this thread and you'll be sorry

[A Desert Rose]

I'm a no bullshit kinda person and I try to avoid it, whenever possible.

This last weekend, I went out of town with several of my girl friends. It was a "girl's weekend" thing. Shopping, drinking... just having fun together. I guess I did the wrong thing - for the right reasons, in my mind - and I didn't tell Him that I was leaving town until the day before we left. I knew He would carry on about it as soon as He knew, so I decided not to tell Him until the last minute. (You know, kinda cutting down on the bullshit, just a little?)

Well, carry on, He did.

He called me all weekend long, ranting and arguing (with no one, since I wouldn't argue back) about how selfish and thoughtless I am. He carried on about how I STILL don't "get it" and I am NOT supposed to make any plans without first clearing them with Him. He told me that I'd ruined His weekend. He yelled at me and several times, threatened to let me go.

Needless to say, it was not nearly as fun as I'd hoped it would be.

I know He's right. I should've discussed this with Him first. But I also knew the bullshit I'd be in for when I did tell Him. I got involved with this man partly because I knew He had other committments and therefore, couldn't (or so I thought) put a lot of demands on me and my time. Wrong.

And still He's carrying this on, even tonight. I asked Him to "please, let's don't argue anymore" and He told me "damned right we aren't going to argue. You're either going to get it or you're not. And if you're not, then I'm letting you go."

I hate these kinds of threats because they make me feel real unsteady. I'm crazy for Him and He knows it. He knows how letting me go will effect me. I do love Him. And for Him to even consider letting me go, knocks me right off my feet. He knows it does, too. But I can't ever tell for sure if He's serious or if it's just another mind game. I'm afraid that one day, He will mean it.

I've never threatened Him with leaving. I don't believe in threats or ultimatums. I called Him a bit ago and left a voicemail. I told Him that He can't keep doing this to me. In so many words I told him that He needs to cut bait or not, but what He is doing is making me nuts.

Oh, what a stupid mistake I've made...

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I'm a no bullshit kinda person and I try to avoid it, whenever possible.
.... Oh, what a stupid mistake I've made...

The question becomes, do you understand the mistake you made _from_HIS_perspective_? Do you, in fact, get it?

This was a total communication FUBAR from the moment you decided to not tell him about your plans. I don't know what limits are in place in your relationship, what authority you have surrendered to him, what areas of your life are in submission to him so I don't know what expectations he has regarding his authority over you.

But I can tell from what you've reported that he is mightily displeased. From my perspective, justifiably so. If my janey did something like that in _our_ relationship I would consider her actions in the following light:
1) Failure to communicate her needs and desires to me
2) Failure to trust me to make a decision considering her needs & desires as well as my own.
3) Failure to submit to my authority as her owner.
4) (and most importantly) Disrespectful to me personally and as her owner.

Again, I don't know the details of what either of you expect from the relationship, but y'all definitely have some communication issues to iron out if you want to have any hope of continuing a D/s relationship. I hope you two can work it out.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You have my empathy and heartfelt hugs ADR. I do hope it all works out OK for you as you have walked a long and hard road to get here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is perfection...ultimately they both produce unrealistic expectations and regrets which have little to do with the imperfections of human frailty and reality, but can lead to lessons learned. Apologise if you feel it is warranted, and work forward in whatever way is called for and which helps you survive day to day as that is really all any of us can ever do.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

Not sorry to open it. Offering support.

Ask yourself if you'd trust someone who didn't want to hear your opinion and took steps to avoid and minimize your input.

Whatever you decide, I hope it comes from your heart and head and not anger.

If I were with you, I'd let you go until you knew what you wanted and were willing to commit to it and respect your partner and yourself. Not out of anger, but out of respect for what it seems you do versus what you say you'll do.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I'm a no bullshit kinda person and I try to avoid it, whenever possible.

This last weekend, I went out of town with several of my girl friends. It was a "girl's weekend" thing. Shopping, drinking... just having fun together. I guess I did the wrong thing - for the right reasons, in my mind - and I didn't tell Him that I was leaving town until the day before we left. I knew He would carry on about it as soon as He knew, so I decided not to tell Him until the last minute. (You know, kinda cutting down on the bullshit, just a little?)

Well, carry on, He did.

He called me all weekend long, ranting and arguing (with no one, since I wouldn't argue back) about how selfish and thoughtless I am. He carried on about how I STILL don't "get it" and I am NOT supposed to make any plans without first clearing them with Him. He told me that I'd ruined His weekend. He yelled at me and several times, threatened to let me go.

Needless to say, it was not nearly as fun as I'd hoped it would be.

I know He's right. I should've discussed this with Him first. But I also knew the bullshit I'd be in for when I did tell Him. I got involved with this man partly because I knew He had other committments and therefore, couldn't (or so I thought) put a lot of demands on me and my time. Wrong.

And still He's carrying this on, even tonight. I asked Him to "please, let's don't argue anymore" and He told me "damned right we aren't going to argue. You're either going to get it or you're not. And if you're not, then I'm letting you go."

I hate these kinds of threats because they make me feel real unsteady. I'm crazy for Him and He knows it. He knows how letting me go will effect me. I do love Him. And for Him to even consider letting me go, knocks me right off my feet. He knows it does, too. But I can't ever tell for sure if He's serious or if it's just another mind game. I'm afraid that one day, He will mean it.

I've never threatened Him with leaving. I don't believe in threats or ultimatums. I called Him a bit ago and left a voicemail. I told Him that He can't keep doing this to me. In so many words I told him that He needs to cut bait or not, but what He is doing is making me nuts.

Oh, what a stupid mistake I've made...

utoh *hug* been there done that...learned my lesson the hard way. *sigh*

 

[shy slave]

ADR I am not sorry I opened this thread.

I am sorry your going through this.

I have no advice to give, I continue to learn not to second guess him and his reactions.
EG post does give it from the other perspective, your a strong woman and I am sure you will figure this out whats right for you.
If you both hang in there you already know this is something you need to talk about. Otherwise it will just hang over both you.

Take care

 

[Mr. Mann]

Desert Rose, I offer this with respect. None of this is intended as a slight or insult. However, you posted for responses so I offer one for you. Take it or leave it. It is worth what you paid for it.

You not telling him was bullshit. It was not the "right" thing to do in order to simply avoid or delay unpleasantness.

If you got into a relationship with him because you thought he wouldn't get too close... yet he has. I sounds like he expects commitment on your part, and in being inconsiderate of him and his needs, you have made him questioon your comitment.

Is his ultimatum really a threat, or is it simply being honest about what he thinkgs and feels? Is he actually not hiding his thoughts and pulling away to avoid unpleasantness? It sounds more like he is putting it all out there, exposing himself, allowing himself to be vulnerable, and communicating to you his frustrations.

You say you don't believe in threats or ultimatums. Why? Is it to selfishly avoiding having to deal with the emotions? Is it that you aren't willing to be "the bad guy"?

You want him to cut bait or fish?

You've engaged in a course of actions that you knew would upset him. You've been dishonest and kept things hidden from him. You've done things that are against what you previously agreed you would do. And you want him to quit being upset with you over these things because you don't like it. If he doesn't cool it, then you want him to break up with you instead of continuing to give you grief.

So in the final analysis, it seems that it is easier for you to do all of these things that erode trust and commitment and lose the relationship as opposed to simply doing what you have previously agreed to do, being honest and forthcoming with yourself and others, and taking responsibility for your life and your part in the relationship with him.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You’ve all said a great deal of sensible things. Things I’m fully aware of, my own failings that I’m fully aware of, mistakes I’ve made that I’m fully responsible for. And I’ve never really posted too many personal things on this board and I’ll likely regret doing this.

I said He has commitments, not the least of which are 2 sons in college and the worst of which is a girlfriend. I take a back seat to her, always and in all ways. She doesn’t know about me, but I know all about her. He told me a few months ago that I was not His girlfriend, His wife or His mother, and in fact, I was not a priority at all. I’m just His slut, submissive, whipping post, sounding board... you name it. In His own words, I have no vote and I only draw breath because He says I can. (He told me that this morning.) He tells me very little and I might go several days without hearing from Him. But I’m not to make a decision, even about my work schedule, without first consulting Him. I work per diem and last month, I picked up an extra day a week. It was the only day that the facility needed a nurse on nights and it was, according to Him, the absolute worst day I could’ve agreed to. Like I could pick and choose what days they needed me? He can be so unreasonable and completely not understand what my career demands of me.

So, He called this morning on His way to work and we talked all of 10 minutes. The conversation was no better than the one we had last night.

And then He had to end it because His girlfriend was calling...

Are you asking yourselves the same thing I am? Why am I allowing this to go on? I’m not a submissive. I’m a true, died in the wool doormat.

 

[Recidiva]

You’ve all said a great deal of sensible things. Things I’m fully aware of, my own failings that I’m fully aware of, mistakes I’ve made that I’m fully responsible for. And I’ve never really posted too many personal things on this board and I’ll likely regret doing this.

I said He has commitments, not the least of which are 2 sons in college and the worst of which is a girlfriend. I take a back seat to her, always and in all ways. She doesn’t know about me, but I know all about her. He told me a few months ago that I was not His girlfriend, His wife or His mother, and in fact, I was not a priority at all. I’m just His slut, submissive, whipping post, sounding board... you name it. In His own words, I have no vote and I only draw breath because He says I can. (He told me that this morning.) He tells me very little and I might go several days without hearing from Him. But I’m not to make a decision, even about my work schedule, without first consulting Him. I work per diem and last month, I picked up an extra day a week. It was the only day that the facility needed a nurse on nights and it was, according to Him, the absolute worst day I could’ve agreed to. Like I could pick and choose what days they needed me? He can be so unreasonable and completely not understand what my career demands of me.

So, He called this morning on His way to work and we talked all of 10 minutes. The conversation was no better than the one we had last night.

And then He had to end it because His girlfriend was calling...

Are you asking yourselves the same thing I am? Why am I allowing this to go on? I’m not a submissive. I’m a true, died in the wool doormat.

Well, most of all I'd like to see you have an arrangement that you look forward to. And not settle for less. Determine what it is you want and wait for it, and in the meantime, be the best company for yourself you can be. It's better to go hungry sometimes than eat poison.

 

[rosco rathbone]

You’ve all said a great deal of sensible things. Things I’m fully aware of, my own failings that I’m fully aware of, mistakes I’ve made that I’m fully responsible for. And I’ve never really posted too many personal things on this board and I’ll likely regret doing this.

I said He has commitments, not the least of which are 2 sons in college and the worst of which is a girlfriend. I take a back seat to her, always and in all ways. She doesn’t know about me, but I know all about her. He told me a few months ago that I was not His girlfriend, His wife or His mother, and in fact, I was not a priority at all. I’m just His slut, submissive, whipping post, sounding board... you name it. In His own words, I have no vote and I only draw breath because He says I can. (He told me that this morning.) He tells me very little and I might go several days without hearing from Him. But I’m not to make a decision, even about my work schedule, without first consulting Him. I work per diem and last month, I picked up an extra day a week. It was the only day that the facility needed a nurse on nights and it was, according to Him, the absolute worst day I could’ve agreed to. Like I could pick and choose what days they needed me? He can be so unreasonable and completely not understand what my career demands of me.

So, He called this morning on His way to work and we talked all of 10 minutes. The conversation was no better than the one we had last night.

And then He had to end it because His girlfriend was calling...

Are you asking yourselves the same thing I am? Why am I allowing this to go on? I’m not a submissive. I’m a true, died in the wool doormat.

Sounds like you are being asked to give a lot without getting a lot back.

Hope it works out for you one way or the other.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Desert Rose, I offer this with respect. None of this is intended as a slight or insult. However, you posted for responses so I offer one for you. Take it or leave it. It is worth what you paid for it.

You not telling him was bullshit. It was not the "right" thing to do in order to simply avoid or delay unpleasantness.

Agreed, it was bullshit. And it was a delay tactic on my part.

If you got into a relationship with him because you thought he wouldn't get too close... yet he has. I sounds like he expects commitment on your part, and in being inconsiderate of him and his needs, you have made him questioon your comitment.

Agreed again, to a point. I have been disrespectful to Him and I have made Him question my commitment to this relationship. He basically said as much this morning.

Is his ultimatum really a threat, or is it simply being honest about what he thinkgs and feels? Is he actually not hiding his thoughts and pulling away to avoid unpleasantness? It sounds more like he is putting it all out there, exposing himself, allowing himself to be vulnerable, and communicating to you his frustrations.

Once again, agreed. I am afraid that He is being honest. And that He is reconsidering our relationship.

You say you don't believe in threats or ultimatums. Why? Is it to selfishly avoiding having to deal with the emotions? Is it that you aren't willing to be "the bad guy"?

I don't believe in threats or delivering ultimatums. I make up my mind to do a thing and it's done. That's all there is to that. ;-)

You want him to cut bait or fish?

You've engaged in a course of actions that you knew would upset him. You've been dishonest and kept things hidden from him. You've done things that are against what you previously agreed you would do. And you want him to quit being upset with you over these things because you don't like it. If he doesn't cool it, then you want him to break up with you instead of continuing to give you grief.

What I want is for the girlfriend to go away but that's not ever going to happen. He's made that very clear to me. I think that sometimes I do these kinds of things in order to rebel against Him and His behavior/attitude towards me.

I want Him and I want to be only for Him... I don't share well.

So in the final analysis, it seems that it is easier for you to do all of these things that erode trust and commitment and lose the relationship as opposed to simply doing what you have previously agreed to do, being honest and forthcoming with yourself and others, and taking responsibility for your life and your part in the relationship with him.

Mr. Mann, I fight that fight almost daily. One day I decide I'll be the good submissive and sit quietly waiting for Him. You know, late at night after He's done fucking her. Then the next day, I decide that I'll just ignore Him and not see/talk Him ever again.

It's a real battle.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Sounds like you are being asked to give a lot without getting a lot back.

Hope it works out for you one way or the other.

Thank you. You have no idea how much this means to me.

 

[Mr. Mann]

I see alot of conflict. You speak of choosing a relationship with him because he wouldn't get too close to you and that he had other comittments. Yet you also speak of your displeasure that you have to compete for his time and attention.

You said you got into this and agreed to his stipulations and conditions... yet now that you are in it, you don't abide by them. You even resent them and resent it when he is unhappy that you abide by them.

It sounds a little to me like you want to be the one who is special enough to make him change.

I've never seen that end well. No matter what kind of relationship you are in, you have to accept people for who they are.

It never works well to take "Mr. I-Guess-He'll-Do-For-Now" and try to turn him into "Mr. Right" through conditioning and manipulation.

 

[Mr. Mann]

Just one more thing...

I think it is very disrespectful for him to have a secret relationship that he keeps from his "girlfriend".

Just my two cents, here... but it sounds like, in HIS mind, "girlfriend" is not a "move up" for a woman. With you he is honest.... yet he lies to her. Why?

If you became his girlfriend, at what point would he begin lying to you?

I don't like the deception. INMSHO it is immature and disrespectful.

You are a grown adult and I resepct and support your decision to do whatever you like with whomever you like... but OTOH, I'd hope for you that you find someone who does not have a life built so much upon deception and false trust.

Just my two cents.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I see alot of conflict. You speak of choosing a relationship with him because he wouldn't get too close to you and that he had other comittments. Yet you also speak of your displeasure that you have to compete for his time and attention.

You said you got into this and agreed to his stipulations and conditions... yet now that you are in it, you don't abide by them. You even resent them and resent it when he is unhappy that you abide by them.

It sounds a little to me like you want to be the one who is special enough to make him change.

I've never seen that end well. No matter what kind of relationship you are in, you have to accept people for who they are.

It never works well to take "Mr. I-Guess-He'll-Do-For-Now" and try to turn him into "Mr. Right" through conditioning and manipulation.

Yep. I think you've about covered it quite well. The problem is that He is not "Mr. I-Guess-He'll-Do-For-Now." In a myriad of ways that I've not gone into, for me, He is Mr. Right. But circumstances are not going to change between us. I have to be willing to accept things as they are and always will be between us and stop the manipulation, or I need to be the one to cut bait. (Honestly, I'd not looked at it from your perspective and you make a lot of sense. I didn't realize, I guess being so wrapped up in this whole thing, that I was manipulating Him.)

Because the truth is, I want Him and I'm not "special enough" to have Him. Apparently, she is.

 

[jadefirefly]

Sweetheart, I don't have long, I have to go to work, but with the utmost respect to both of you...

When Rosco says you're getting fucked, and all the wrong ways, I think you'd be better off in the long run.

It's harsh, and I'm sorry, and I'm sorry you're having to put up with that. But I seriously think that you're getting the short end of the stick... communication goes both ways. Period. If you have to give it, so, too, does he.

Sorry so short. *hugs.*

 

[A Desert Rose]

Just one more thing...

I think it is very disrespectful for him to have a secret relationship that he keeps from his "girlfriend".

Just my two cents, here... but it sounds like, in HIS mind, "girlfriend" is not a "move up" for a woman. With you he is honest.... yet he lies to her. Why?

If you became his girlfriend, at what point would he begin lying to you?

I don't like the deception. INMSHO it is immature and disrespectful.

You are a grown adult and I resepct and support your decision to do whatever you like with whomever you like... but OTOH, I'd hope for you that you find someone who does not have a life built so much upon deception and false trust.

Just my two cents.

You know, this is funny. He's told me a million times that "girlfriends will come and go but you'll be my slut until the day you die."

And don't think for a minute that I've not considered His lying... I would never marry this man, for just that reason. Up to this point, I don't think He's lied to me. But there's nothing stopping Him from doing it.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Sweetheart, I don't have long, I have to go to work, but with the utmost respect to both of you...

When Rosco says you're getting fucked, and all the wrong ways, I think you'd be better off in the long run.

It's harsh, and I'm sorry, and I'm sorry you're having to put up with that. But I seriously think that you're getting the short end of the stick... communication goes both ways. Period. If you have to give it, so, too, does he.

Sorry so short. *hugs.*

It's alright. Short is good when you say good things like this.

 

[Recidiva]

Yep. I think you've about covered it quite well. The problem is that He is not "Mr. I-Guess-He'll-Do-For-Now." In a myriad of ways that I've not gone into, for me, He is Mr. Right. But circumstances are not going to change between us. I have to be willing to accept things as they are and always will be between us and stop the manipulation, or I need to be the one to cut bait. (Honestly, I'd not looked at it from your perspective and you make a lot of sense. I didn't realize, I guess being so wrapped up in this whole thing, that I was manipulating Him.)

Because the truth is, I want Him and I'm not "special enough" to have Him. Apparently, she is.

No. He's not special enough to recognize what you need and want and get it for you. Don't think the other way. Trap. Trap. Trap.

 

[A Desert Rose]

No. He's not special enough to recognize what you need and want and get it for you. Don't think the other way. Trap. Trap. Trap.

I know you're right. My head knows it. My heart's another story. But you all have given me plenty to think about. I need to reassess this whole thing or change my behavior or both.


(and geeeeeeeze... it's dyed in the wool, not died. I can't believe I made that mistake.)

 

[Kajira Callista]

I know you're right. My head knows it. My heart's another story. But you all have given me plenty to think about. I need to reassess this whole thing or change my behavior or both.


(and geeeeeeeze... it's dyed in the wool, not died. I can't believe I made that mistake.)

died in wool would be bad...i wouldnt like to die itchy

 

[A Desert Rose]

died in wool would be bad...i wouldnt like to die itchy

well yea... I agree. Not a fun way to go.

 

[Kajira Callista]

well yea... I agree. Not a fun way to go.

I have reese ya know...i can share them if ya want.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have reese ya know...i can share them if ya want.

Okay, but we have to talk quietly... WD can't know about it. He knows I'm on a diet.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Okay, but we have to talk quietly... WD can't know about it. He knows I'm on a diet.

I won't tell