Ooooh, Property taxes. This is gonna get UGLY.

Le Jacquelope

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Governments are using grossly inflated appraisals to raise property taxes.

Didn't we arrest appraisers for doing this for private interests?

This is one time where liberals and anti-Government types should march together and start throwing politicians in prison for egging this crap on.

Raise the property tax if you must, but raise the tax, don't friggin inflate the home values. This was illegal when it was done for speculators. Hell, false appraisals HELPED greatly to trigger the housing market collapse...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090112/us_time/08599187070100/print

Why Does Your Devalued Home Have Such a High Tax Rate?
By PAIGE BOWERS / ATLANTA Paige Bowers / Atlanta Sun Jan 11, 9:55 pm ET

Are your property taxes rising while the value of your house falls? Join the multitudes of Americans in the same predicament. In Atlanta, home values have tumbled over the past year by as much as 12% but an Atlanta Neighborhood Development Partnership study of high foreclosure areas found that the owners of those properties would have had to pay an extra $70 million in taxes because of overvalued but official appraisals. In states from New York to Arizona, angry citizen groups are lobbying their state legislatures - already facing budget shortfalls themselves - to address the discrepancies.

Tax assessors across the country have seen an uptick in the number of homeowners challenging their homes' appraisal value. The Wall Street Journal reported that 15,000 residents - instead of the usual 500 - in St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana had requested a review of their 2008 tax bills. And the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that Cuyahoga County, which has about 1,300 foreclosures a month, saw three times as many appeals as in 2007. (See pictures of Cleveland's housing crisis.)

Atlanta attorney Edward Lindsey says he saw the writing on the wall when he first ran for state representative in 2004. As he went door to door canvassing for votes in one of the city's wealthier enclaves, countless residents told him of paying property taxes that didn't reflect the true value of their house, but a value fueled by an assessment of their neighbor's recent renovation. Lindsey may have felt a little guilty. He and his wife had just completed what he described as "an upgrade" - he tore down one house and replaced it with a larger one - to the property they had lived on for the past 20 years. "It's not fair for [my neighbors] to have their property reassessed because of the renovations we've done," says Lindsey, a Republican legislator since 2005. "Property taxes should be focused on what you invested in the property rather than the unrealized gain, which is subject to wild variations."

Lindsey is one of several Georgia state lawmakers currently calling for property tax reform. It's a mission fueled by head-scratching homeowners who can't fathom why they are paying higher taxes on homes with tumbling prices. However, with at least 44 states facing budget woes in the coming year, it's a movement that, if successful, could make it tougher on states to raise revenues. And yet, when the Georgia General Assembly starts its session next week, Lindsey says he hopes both houses quickly pass his bill to cap growth in assessments at 3%.

But state Senator Vincent D. Fort, a Democrat, believes that in an era of state budget cuts, this is an issue best left to municipal governments to decide. "Municipalities know best what revenues are needed and how they are needed," Fort told TIME. "Those officials, those school boards, those city councils are going to be held accountable by their constituents and [these caps aren't] helpful when state cuts are requiring cities to look at how to raise revenues. Localities need to be able to control their own property tax."

Lindsey, meanwhile, argues that property taxes are a "back door tax." "I believe local officials should go to your front door to tell you they need to raise taxes," he says. "There are times when constituents will understand that they need [higher taxes] for better services and they will adjust."

Already, the push-and-pull of falling revenue based on property taxes, on one hand, and demand for services, on the other, is convulsing many communities and states. In Decatur, Ga. a suburb east of Atlanta that relies on property taxes for revenue, the city has postponed a vote to annex additional neighborhoods because locals are concerned annexation will overcrowd schools. In New Jersey, Gov. Jon Corzine wants county and municipal governments to forego more than $500 million in pension payments in the coming year as a way of avoiding higher property taxes. And California and Arizona, where property values have tumbled as much as 30%, are faced with borrowing billions of dollars to cure their ailing budgets. "It's not just a problem for folks here," Lindsey says. "It's a problem for folks everywhere."
 
I challenged a substantial increase in my property tax based on the actual price I bought it for the previous year - and won.
 
I challenged a substantial increase in my property tax based on the actual price I bought it for the previous year - and won.
But did you pursue the issue to its core - namely, the problem of inflated appraisals which are illegal in every other circumstance besides assessing property taxes?
 
Do you have any hobbies that actually make you smile, LaJ? Just wondering.
 
But did you pursue the issue to its core - namely, the problem of inflated appraisals which are illegal in every other circumstance besides assessing property taxes?

I don't know that it was artificially inflated in my case. Where I live they use a formula and every so often will adjust the tax rate to reflect values. There's always a fudge factor. I just so happen to have bought my home in a flat market and when they adjusted a year later I had proof of market value and that was good enough for them.
 
UK experience

The UK revalues house values on a rolling basis.

It doesn't really matter what the valuation is as long as the difference between properties is reflected so that a four-bedroom detached house is worth more than a three-bedroom semi-detached house and both are worth more than a three-bedroom mid terraced house. The valuations could be made in Monopoly money, Euros, Chinese Yuan or even US dollars.

What happens next is the important bit:

Each house is assigned to a Band of values according to the valuer's opinion.

Band A pays least property taxes, Band B slightly more, Band C (the normal value of an average house) more than Band B; Band D more than Band C, etc.

However the valuation is done, it is unlikely that a house would move from one Band to another unless there have been substantial improvements made to the house. If a house which was three bedrooms has been extended to make a house with five bedrooms, that might change the valuation to a higher Band. However an extended house with five bedrooms might be worth less than a house designed and built with five bedrooms.

If, for example Band C houses were given a valuation of 91 to 100 whatevers, a Band A house might be valued at up to 70, a Band B house from 71 to 90 and so on.

General Revaluation up or down shouldn't change the level of property tax unless the house or district has changed significantly.

However, the take from property taxes might rise for everyone. That hurts.

Og
 
The UK revalues house values on a rolling basis.

It doesn't really matter what the valuation is as long as the difference between properties is reflected so that a four-bedroom detached house is worth more than a three-bedroom semi-detached house and both are worth more than a three-bedroom mid terraced house. The valuations could be made in Monopoly money, Euros, Chinese Yuan or even US dollars.

What happens next is the important bit:

Each house is assigned to a Band of values according to the valuer's opinion.

Band A pays least property taxes, Band B slightly more, Band C (the normal value of an average house) more than Band B; Band D more than Band C, etc.

However the valuation is done, it is unlikely that a house would move from one Band to another unless there have been substantial improvements made to the house. If a house which was three bedrooms has been extended to make a house with five bedrooms, that might change the valuation to a higher Band. However an extended house with five bedrooms might be worth less than a house designed and built with five bedrooms.

If, for example Band C houses were given a valuation of 91 to 100 whatevers, a Band A house might be valued at up to 70, a Band B house from 71 to 90 and so on.

General Revaluation up or down shouldn't change the level of property tax unless the house or district has changed significantly.

However, the take from property taxes might rise for everyone. That hurts.

Og

How are differences in location accounted for? Does a person with a small home in a nice area pay the same as a person with a small home in a less-desirable area?
 
I don't think that local governments are out there right this minute re-assessing properties at grossly inflated values. Those would be quite easy to challenge as not reflective of fair market value. The real problem is governments using outdated assessments because state law does not require them (nor provide them money) to conduct assessments on a more frequent basis. Assessments made in the last four years are not going to reflect current property values. But that doesn't make them wrong in the same sense as private appraisals that are inflated at the time they are conducted.
 
I don't think that local governments are out there right this minute re-assessing properties at grossly inflated values. Those would be quite easy to challenge as not reflective of fair market value. The real problem is governments using outdated assessments because state law does not require them (nor provide them money) to conduct assessments on a more frequent basis. Assessments made in the last four years are not going to reflect current property values. But that doesn't make them wrong in the same sense as private appraisals that are inflated at the time they are conducted.
Well, what sparked my suspicion was the evil b.s. that happened with Edward Lindsey's neighbors/constituents. It appears that his neighbors were being assessed higher values because their neighbors made improvements. Sounds like an inflated appraisal to me.

I'm sure a lot of it is also the fault of Governments using outdated appraisals.
 
We had an amendment that past last year reducing the value of property but our local leaders are fighting it. The jack ass that runs lee county property appraisal found a loop hole in that he could keep taxes at an inflated value. In the past five years the government covers became greedy, its take to move salaries back to 2000 levels and fire everyone that was hired after 2000. The people spoke on property taxes and they want to pay less, the idiots who are in government (cuz they can’t get a real job) have to learn how to balance a check book, fire people, and learn what the rest of us are dealing with. I’m sorry for the local government worker but its time to start ending the welfare in America.

Governments are using grossly inflated appraisals to raise property taxes.

Didn't we arrest appraisers for doing this for private interests?

This is one time where liberals and anti-Government types should march together and start throwing politicians in prison for egging this crap on.

Raise the property tax if you must, but raise the tax, don't friggin inflate the home values. This was illegal when it was done for speculators. Hell, false appraisals HELPED greatly to trigger the housing market collapse...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090112/us_time/08599187070100/print

Why Does Your Devalued Home Have Such a High Tax Rate?
By PAIGE BOWERS / ATLANTA Paige Bowers / Atlanta Sun Jan 11, 9:55 pm ET

Are your property taxes rising while the value of your house falls? Join the multitudes of Americans in the same predicament. In Atlanta, home values have tumbled over the past year by as much as 12% but an Atlanta Neighborhood Development Partnership study of high foreclosure areas found that the owners of those properties would have had to pay an extra $70 million in taxes because of overvalued but official appraisals. In states from New York to Arizona, angry citizen groups are lobbying their state legislatures - already facing budget shortfalls themselves - to address the discrepancies.

Tax assessors across the country have seen an uptick in the number of homeowners challenging their homes' appraisal value. The Wall Street Journal reported that 15,000 residents - instead of the usual 500 - in St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana had requested a review of their 2008 tax bills. And the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that Cuyahoga County, which has about 1,300 foreclosures a month, saw three times as many appeals as in 2007. (See pictures of Cleveland's housing crisis.)

Atlanta attorney Edward Lindsey says he saw the writing on the wall when he first ran for state representative in 2004. As he went door to door canvassing for votes in one of the city's wealthier enclaves, countless residents told him of paying property taxes that didn't reflect the true value of their house, but a value fueled by an assessment of their neighbor's recent renovation. Lindsey may have felt a little guilty. He and his wife had just completed what he described as "an upgrade" - he tore down one house and replaced it with a larger one - to the property they had lived on for the past 20 years. "It's not fair for [my neighbors] to have their property reassessed because of the renovations we've done," says Lindsey, a Republican legislator since 2005. "Property taxes should be focused on what you invested in the property rather than the unrealized gain, which is subject to wild variations."

Lindsey is one of several Georgia state lawmakers currently calling for property tax reform. It's a mission fueled by head-scratching homeowners who can't fathom why they are paying higher taxes on homes with tumbling prices. However, with at least 44 states facing budget woes in the coming year, it's a movement that, if successful, could make it tougher on states to raise revenues. And yet, when the Georgia General Assembly starts its session next week, Lindsey says he hopes both houses quickly pass his bill to cap growth in assessments at 3%.

But state Senator Vincent D. Fort, a Democrat, believes that in an era of state budget cuts, this is an issue best left to municipal governments to decide. "Municipalities know best what revenues are needed and how they are needed," Fort told TIME. "Those officials, those school boards, those city councils are going to be held accountable by their constituents and [these caps aren't] helpful when state cuts are requiring cities to look at how to raise revenues. Localities need to be able to control their own property tax."

Lindsey, meanwhile, argues that property taxes are a "back door tax." "I believe local officials should go to your front door to tell you they need to raise taxes," he says. "There are times when constituents will understand that they need [higher taxes] for better services and they will adjust."

Already, the push-and-pull of falling revenue based on property taxes, on one hand, and demand for services, on the other, is convulsing many communities and states. In Decatur, Ga. a suburb east of Atlanta that relies on property taxes for revenue, the city has postponed a vote to annex additional neighborhoods because locals are concerned annexation will overcrowd schools. In New Jersey, Gov. Jon Corzine wants county and municipal governments to forego more than $500 million in pension payments in the coming year as a way of avoiding higher property taxes. And California and Arizona, where property values have tumbled as much as 30%, are faced with borrowing billions of dollars to cure their ailing budgets. "It's not just a problem for folks here," Lindsey says. "It's a problem for folks everywhere."
 
being that we live in Florida we are able to experience the extreme of devalued homes. In Cape Coral you can purchase a house for $60,000 that two years ago was selling for $400,000 and the family’s that are lucky enough (sadly) to keep the ARM mortgage were taxed at $400,000 and not the $60,000

I don't think that local governments are out there right this minute re-assessing properties at grossly inflated values. Those would be quite easy to challenge as not reflective of fair market value. The real problem is governments using outdated assessments because state law does not require them (nor provide them money) to conduct assessments on a more frequent basis. Assessments made in the last four years are not going to reflect current property values. But that doesn't make them wrong in the same sense as private appraisals that are inflated at the time they are conducted.
 
How are differences in location accounted for? Does a person with a small home in a nice area pay the same as a person with a small home in a less-desirable area?

If the small home in a nice area is in the same district as a larger home in a less desirable area they might pay the same. The person with the small home in a less desirable area is likely to pay less than the person with the equally small home in a nice area IF they are in the same district.

The council (property) taxes are set by each district. A house valued at X in district 1 might pay more or less than a house also valued at X that is in district 2. Sometimes this can lead to anomalies such as people one one side of a street (in district 1) paying much more tax than people in identical houses on the other side of the street but in district 2. However that difference in taxation could affect the valuation of the property. If the local property taxes are higher on one side of the street the property value MIGHT be lower to reflect the higher tax burden BUT if the address has social cachet that might increase the property value just because of the address. For example: In West London being in Pimlico is a good address, but a few yards away being in Chelsea is a much better (and more valuable) address.

The catchment area of popular schools can also increase house value.

Og
 
Property taxes in Alabama are VERY reasonable. We still have a Homestead law, so as long as you live on the property, your taxes are cut almost in half.

For a house on eleven acres we pay $158 a year. That's it.
 
omg my god, I'm jealous! we pay over 10k

Property taxes in Alabama are VERY reasonable. We still have a Homestead law, so as long as you live on the property, your taxes are cut almost in half.

For a house on eleven acres we pay $158 a year. That's it.
 
I'll bear up paying a lot of real estate taxes on our house. We get a lot of services here in Eugene and somebody has to pay for them. It might as well be people who have more expensive houses.
 
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