One Step Forward....Several Steps Back

[Misty_Morning]

Unfortunately Florida voters have approved an amendment to the state constitution outlawing same sex marriage.....

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Unfortunately Florida voters have approved an amendment to the state constitution outlawing same sex marriage.....

God help us all.

 

[Belegon]

Unfortunately Florida voters have approved an amendment to the state constitution outlawing same sex marriage.....

It's not looking good here either.


However, this issue will ultimately go to the Supreme Court of the United States, based on the 14th Amendment. A court that will now have the next few additions to it selected by Barack Obama.

Remember dear, these kind of fights are not over in round 5. And the final round will be in front of a court that I believe will come to the same decision the Supreme Court of California made.

 

[Misty_Morning]

It's not looking good here either.


However, this issue will ultimately go to the Supreme Court of the United States, based on the 14th Amendment. A court that will now have the next few additions to it selected by Barack Obama.

Remember dear, these kind of fights are not over in round 5. And the final round will be in front of a court that I believe will come to the same decision the Supreme Court of California made.

Florida already had a law against same sex marriage....but the hate mongerers wanted to make sure that we didn't get to feeling too human.

What gets me is that the polls have said that more than 70% of blacks supported the amendment.


I don't understand....do they not remember what is was like to be treated as subhuman?

 

[3113]

I don't understand....do they not remember what is was like to be treated as subhuman?

They don't make the connection between such laws and Jim Crow laws. I think the connection really needs to be pointed out to them. Between fear, ignorance and the belief that this is a religious/moral issue and not a type of person issue they just can't see it.

 

[Belegon]

Florida already had a law against same sex marriage....but the hate mongerers wanted to make sure that we didn't get to feeling too human.

What gets me is that the polls have said that more than 70% of blacks supported the amendment.


I don't understand....do they not remember what is was like to be treated as subhuman?

It is the religious vote. The majority of the older African-American community is very conservative on these issues and black men especially have a culture of homophobia consistently reinforced in their daily interactions.

This fight will continue. I got a voicemail today with Bill Clinton making a personal plea to vote no on 8. The mainstream of politicians is beginning to move in the right direction.

But this is going to be a long fight.

A couple years ago, CA also passed a referendum defining marriage as being opposite sex only. It passed by 61%. Currently, Prop 8 has 53% and that margin will shrink, even if the result does not change. That is a change of 8% in a very short space of time.

Time IS on our side.

 

[Misty_Morning]

But this IS government sanctioned discrimination.

It is blatant.

It is hatred.

It is wrong.

 

[Belegon]

But this IS government sanctioned discrimination.

It is blatant.

It is hatred.

It is wrong.

Preaching to the choir, dear. Do you read my blog?

It is also COMMON. "The other is the enemy and we must fear the enemy" is perhaps the earliest of political cliches.

It is understandable to feel the pain. However, you must NOT despair. That leads to a belief that nothing can be done, and that is simply not true.

Remember, if it were left to voting alone, the Civil Rights movement would NOT have succeeded.

This is why we have consistently been warned, starting with Jefferson, about the "tyranny of the majority."

And like the fight against racism, the younger generations are far more progressive.

We may not outvote them at this time. But we WILL outlive them.

 

[Corylea]

What I don't get about the anti-gay religious vote is how deeply un-Christian it is. What part of "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is hard to understand? I don't see "Spit on your neighbors and treat them as sub-human" anywhere in the New Testament.

I wish I did believe in a God and an afterlife; I would love to see all the Christians who use their religion to justify hating or oppressing someone meet a pissed-off Jesus at the Pearly Gates, asking, "And who have you hated in My name?"

 

[Dragonlipz]

We are the ultimate dichotomy as a species

facinating and disappointing,
mature and infantile,
spiritual and intolerant,
generous and hateful,
compassionate and vengeful,
none of us easy to understand,
many lovable,
more culpable.....

 

[Belegon]

Never underestimate the ability of people who don't do their own thinking to believe a lie.

Why Jesus Would Vote No On 8
Throughout this election season we have seen wild accusations, strong feelings and deceitful advertising on many issues. Nationally, this is focused on the Presidential race, but here in California we are seeing the same kind of bitter focus on a piece of legislation that, for a large portion of our population, is equally important.

I am among those with strong feelings about the proposal to amend the state constitution to define legal marriage as being between a man and a woman. Simply put, I must tell you that I am categorically against any law which denies any citizen their civil rights.

The primary opposition to that view is being based in the churches. It’s predictable. It is also, from my point of view, incredibly sad.

Approximately two thousand years ago, a transformational figure emerged from a small town called Nazareth. This man’s teachings and morality were so revolutionary that they have literally transformed the globe. He was an incredible pioneer… not in the area of religion, although that certainly applies. But in civil rights.

Let’s look at the man, his actions and his teaching. I am restraining this discussion to the actual words and deeds of the man Jesus. I am not, for the purposes of this piece, interested in the epistles of his followers. Also, I am taking the Gospels at face value, ignoring the questions about the literal truth of the document and focusing on the man they describe.

Jesus of Nazareth was the one of the first major western figures to propose such revolutionary concepts as the separation of church and state, pacifism in the face of persecution and a commitment to care for the poor, sick and disabled. But the leadership position I wish to emphasize here is his belief in equality.

If you examine the teachings and words of Jesus, you find a dramatic difference between him and his contemporaries. One that is less obvious to us because of the very changes his teachings helped bring about.

In that time, it was an accepted truth that a king was in all ways superior to his subjects, that only a priest could speak to God and that people who were different were inferior. Women were chattel. Children were an expendable commodity. Slavery was common. Those who worked in certain professions were not only misguided, but evil and sub-human.

Jesus rejected all of the above. He recruited his disciples from the ranks of fishermen. Laborers, whose lack of formal education was appalling to the men who sat in the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. He dared to suggest that a common man was as valuable as a king or priest. He not only suffered the attentions of children, he adored them. He sought out the companionship of women, not as sexual vessels, but as his intellectual equal. He healed lepers, who were considered to have been afflicted by God for their sins. He comforted the insane, who were considered to be possessed by demons.

And perhaps most shocking of all, he preached that Samaritans and Gentiles of all sorts, even Romans, were worthy of respect. Just as were such “scum” as tax collectors and prostitutes.

When he would not desist from these teachings, he was considered so incredibly dangerous that he was put to death. Not by the civil authorities. According to most accounts, they did everything they could to avoid condemning him. He was condemned by the religious establishment of his own country. By those viewed by the masses he preached to as closest to God. By the men who should most have embraced his message, were they truly concerned with souls instead of shekels.

Now, those who occupy the same place in the consciousness of California are arguing that a group of God’s children are somehow less deserving of civil rights. That granting these civil rights, despite not changing a single thing about their own lives, will somehow reduce the value of marriage. They are arguing that a “true believer” has no choice but to vote yes on Proposition Eight.

In doing so, they take a direct stand against the ideals of Jesus of Nazareth. They betray the very concepts this man died a horrible death to defend. They deny his example. Note that I am not talking about sin. I am talking about the legal principles that Jesus pioneered.

Peter denied his Lord three times. These people prepare to follow the example of Peter on November fourth. Peter’s guilt, by all accounts, followed him for the rest of his days and even influenced the manner of his death.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus of Nazareth were to cast a ballot this November, he would vote against this measure to disenfranchise a portion of the masses. Every position of his ministry expresses this. He died rather than reject his convictions.

If you truly honor this man, how can you betray the principles of his life?

Ignore your personal Sanhedrin. Vote no on Proposition Eight.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

MISTY MORNING

Your team lost. That's democracy. Suck it up.

I opposed your team because GLs play for the Liberals and offered me nothing in trade for my support.

Speaking of the blacks. After the Civil War blacks and feminists made a deal to support each other's efforts to get the vote. So the blacks got the vote then opposed voting rights for women. That's how they play.

WHEN GAYS-LESBIANS GET THE IDEA THAT THEY'RE READY TO DO SOME HORSE-TRADING, LET'S TALK.

BELEGON

Stop whining. Most of America thinks queers are weird.

 

[Guest]

AZ voted the same way.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Thanks for the reminder.

Some very profane words come to mind. A bunch of lemmings, all falling into line to vote for hate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

God help us all.

GOD, or at least several Churches of GOD, helped get these measures passed.

On plan is to sue to remove their tax-exempt status, since they have been acting as active entities in secular politics.

 

[shereads]

I have to admit, I was so nervous last night about the presidential election that I channel-flipped whenever there was even a hint of bad news. Today I'm learning that we still have a long, long way to go before we can say we've defeated bigotry in the US.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I need to write an anthem for bigotry.

 

[Shwenn]

I need to write an anthem for bigotry.

Please, take your time with that.

This is an important project for you and you should focus all of your energy on it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SHWENN

C'mon, SHWENN, fess up. If we had a vote to gas and cremate conservatives you'd be first in line. Ditto for the others. So spare me the angst.

 

[Stella_Omega]

JBJ, you are projecting your own futile, impotent, misery on everybody else. Projecting doesn't make it so.

I wouldn't even want to gas you. Gas is more useful in cars. But when you die of cirrhosis of the liver, I'll throw some dead roses on your grave.

 

[shereads]

Ignore it and it will go away.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Pssst, STELLA?

I dont drink. Youre confusing me with SARAH.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

JBJ, you are projecting your own futile, impotent, misery on everybody else. Projecting doesn't make it so.

I wouldn't even want to gas you. Gas is more useful in cars. But when you die of cirrhosis of the liver, I'll throw some dead roses on your grave.

I'm not kidding... you've converted me, Stella. Ignore really IS a great function! I even ignored Scouries. Wow, the AH almost looks like its old self again.

I like it!

 

[Shwenn]

SHWENN

C'mon, SHWENN, fess up. If we had a vote to gas and cremate conservatives you'd be first in line. Ditto for the others. So spare me the angst.

You got some Nazi love there, JBJ?

It suddenly occurs to me you might actually be a member of some white power organizations.

Holy Shit.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

You got some Nazi love there, JBJ?

It suddenly occurs to me you might actually be a member of some white power organizations.

Holy Shit.

Please stop quoting him. Please. Pretty please.