On fucking up

[Serafina1210]

A few days ago, in a fit of insanity, I returned to Loving Wives with a story called "Augustina’s Confession." It wasn't BTB, RAAC, or CUCK, so it didn't fit the usual LW patterns, but I think the big reason it didn’t do particularly well was that it was very dark. No matter: I believe in the story.

The first time I posted a story in LW I found the comments shocking, but this time they were thought-provoking. One commented "Not badly written but did you have to make her dumber than a rock?" then proceeded to list all the dumb things my heroine had done as a way of explaining why he'd given me one star.

I expected this kind of thing: I look at LW comments now and then, and I know that readers there often punish authors for the dumb thing their characters do. But this got me thinking about the importance of the FUCKUP as a plot motivator.

Who wants to read a story in which everything goes according to plan? Something has got to go wrong to get the action going: an accident, a crime, an act of God, or (my favorite) a fuckup--a character doing something stupid. Nothing new about this: it's Aristotle's hamartia, and countless fictions over the millennia have featured characters who drive plots forward by doing catastrophically dimwitted things.

I love characters who fuck up. Now, in fact, in my gray years, I often wish I'd done more stupid things in my youth so I'd have more interesting memories.

But I can't help but laugh imagining some LW reader watching a performance of King Lear and shouting, "Old fart's dumber than a rock, giving away his kingdom to his daughters. One star!"

No query here, just a bit of sharing. If you want to share your favorite fuckups, I'll enjoy reading them.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I think you could say that Scarlett's whole behavior in regards to Rhett is one MASSIVE Fuckup.

IN today's lingo, it's a story about a woman who chases after a "Mr. Unavailable" when the right one is there in front of her eyes all along.

A few days ago, in a fit of insanity, I returned to Loving Wives with a story called "Augustina’s Confession." It wasn't BTB, RAAC, or CUCK, so it didn't fit the usual LW patterns, but I think the big reason it didn’t do particularly well was that it was very dark. No matter: I believe in the story.

The first time I posted a story in LW I found the comments shocking, but this time they were thought-provoking. One commented "Not badly written but did you have to make her dumber than a rock?" then proceeded to list all the dumb things my heroine had done as a way of explaining why he'd given me one star.

I expected this kind of thing: I look at LW comments now and then, and I know that readers there often punish authors for the dumb thing their characters do. But this got me thinking about the importance of the FUCKUP as a plot motivator.

Who wants to read a story in which everything goes according to plan? Something has got to go wrong to get the action going: an accident, a crime, an act of God, or (my favorite) a fuckup--a character doing something stupid. Nothing new about this: it's Aristotle's hamartia, and countless fictions over the millennia have featured characters who drive plots forward by doing catastrophically dimwitted things.

I love characters who fuck up. Now, in fact, in my gray years, I often wish I'd done more stupid things in my youth so I'd have more interesting memories.

But I can't help but laugh imagining some LW reader watching a performance of King Lear and shouting, "Old fart's dumber than a rock, giving away his kingdom to his daughters. One star!"

No query here, just a bit of sharing. If you want to share your favorite fuckups, I'll enjoy reading them.

 

[le_kitty]

A few days ago, in a fit of insanity, I returned to Loving Wives with a story called "Augustina’s Confession." It wasn't BTB, RAAC, or CUCK, so it didn't fit the usual LW patterns, but I think the big reason it didn’t do particularly well was that it was very dark. No matter: I believe in the story.

The first time I posted a story in LW I found the comments shocking, but this time they were thought-provoking. One commented "Not badly written but did you have to make her dumber than a rock?" then proceeded to list all the dumb things my heroine had done as a way of explaining why he'd given me one star.

I expected this kind of thing: I look at LW comments now and then, and I know that readers there often punish authors for the dumb thing their characters do. But this got me thinking about the importance of the FUCKUP as a plot motivator.

Who wants to read a story in which everything goes according to plan? Something has got to go wrong to get the action going: an accident, a crime, an act of God, or (my favorite) a fuckup--a character doing something stupid. Nothing new about this: it's Aristotle's hamartia, and countless fictions over the millennia have featured characters who drive plots forward by doing catastrophically dimwitted things.

I love characters who fuck up. Now, in fact, in my gray years, I often wish I'd done more stupid things in my youth so I'd have more interesting memories.

But I can't help but laugh imagining some LW reader watching a performance of King Lear and shouting, "Old fart's dumber than a rock, giving away his kingdom to his daughters. One star!"

No query here, just a bit of sharing. If you want to share your favorite fuckups, I'll enjoy reading them.

LOL. I read that three times and it cracked me up three times. Scratch that, still cracking me up.

 

[lovecraft68]

According to some of my dedicated 'fans' it would be a shorter list to say what I haven't fucked up.

 

[le_kitty]

I think you could say that Scarlett's whole behavior in regards to Rhett is one MASSIVE Fuckup.

IN today's lingo, it's a story about a woman who chases after a "Mr. Unavailable" when the right one is there in front of her eyes all along.

Heh, I watched Gone with the Wind when I was kid (several times), and I found Rhett intimidating then and preferred what's his name? blond-hair-blue-eyes-torn-up-inside. Was sort of glad Scarlett and Rhett didn't get their HEA. Maybe it's time for a re-watch.

 

[Serafina1210]

I think you could say that Scarlett's whole behavior in regards to Rhett is one MASSIVE Fuckup.

IN today's lingo, it's a story about a woman who chases after a "Mr. Unavailable" when the right one is there in front of her eyes all along.

Good one. Definitely an epic fuckup. Thanks.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Go ye to Amazon, pick any classic novel, and read the one-star reviews. Some hilarious stuff there.

 

[NotWise]

IBut I can't help but laugh imagining some LW reader watching a performance of King Lear and shouting, "Old fart's dumber than a rock, giving away his kingdom to his daughters. One star!"

Made me laugh, but then are you Shakespeare?

We like to give a lot of credit to the positive comments from our readers. Negative comments, not so much. But which do you learn more from? Which should you learn more from?

 

[Serafina1210]

Made me laugh, but then are you Shakespeare?

We like to give a lot of credit to the positive comments from our readers. Negative comments, not so much. But which do you learn more from? Which should you learn more from?

I'm not comparing myself to Shakespeare (except insofar as we both use the ancient plot device of making characters fuck up), and my post states pretty clearly that I learned from this and other negative comments (admitted not always what they wanted me to learn...).

 

[GoldenCojones]

A few days ago, in a fit of insanity, I returned to Loving Wives with a story called "Augustina’s Confession." It wasn't BTB, RAAC, or CUCK, so it didn't fit the usual LW patterns, but I think the big reason it didn’t do particularly well was that it was very dark. No matter: I believe in the story.

The first time I posted a story in LW I found the comments shocking, but this time they were thought-provoking. One commented "Not badly written but did you have to make her dumber than a rock?" then proceeded to list all the dumb things my heroine had done as a way of explaining why he'd given me one star.

I expected this kind of thing: I look at LW comments now and then, and I know that readers there often punish authors for the dumb thing their characters do. But this got me thinking about the importance of the FUCKUP as a plot motivator.

Who wants to read a story in which everything goes according to plan? Something has got to go wrong to get the action going: an accident, a crime, an act of God, or (my favorite) a fuckup--a character doing something stupid. Nothing new about this: it's Aristotle's hamartia, and countless fictions over the millennia have featured characters who drive plots forward by doing catastrophically dimwitted things.

I love characters who fuck up. Now, in fact, in my gray years, I often wish I'd done more stupid things in my youth so I'd have more interesting memories.

But I can't help but laugh imagining some LW reader watching a performance of King Lear and shouting, "Old fart's dumber than a rock, giving away his kingdom to his daughters. One star!"

No query here, just a bit of sharing. If you want to share your favorite fuckups, I'll enjoy reading them.

To be the devil's advocate, I dislike when characters are too damned stupid. Take "The Walking Dead" for instance. All of the main characters in the show are just way to damned stupid to live.

But America loves them, so I think you have it right. We all love to feel smarter than others so we love characters who do stupid things so that we can feel better than them. Or maybe we just like the comic value of the fool. I don't know, but I see a lot of this in successful mainstream literature.

Good luck and keep writing.

 

[NotWise]

LW is beyond my experience here, but for the most part I think that Literotica readers mostly want simple character who fuck a lot. Flawed characters are probably fine as long as the flawed characters fuck a lot.

 

[Serafina1210]

To be the devil's advocate, I dislike when characters are too damned stupid. Take "The Walking Dead" for instance. All of the main characters in the show are just way to damned stupid to live.

But America loves them, so I think you have it right. We all love to feel smarter than others so we love characters who do stupid things so that we can feel better than them. Or maybe we just like the comic value of the fool. I don't know, but I see a lot of this in successful mainstream literature.

Good luck and keep writing.

Yeah, there's a limit. You run out of patience if characters are unbelievably stupid.

Someone just pointed out in a partially intelligible comment on my story that if people didn't fuck up, the Loving Wives department would have to shut down completely. That's absolutely true.

 

[Serafina1210]

LW is beyond my experience here, but for the most part I think that Literotica readers mostly want simple character who fuck a lot. Flawed characters are probably fine as long as the flawed characters fuck a lot.

Ha ha, I like it! Fucking is a lot more important than fucking up on this site.

 

[sr71plt]

LW is beyond my experience here, but for the most part I think that Literotica readers mostly want simple character who fuck a lot. Flawed characters are probably fine as long as the flawed characters fuck a lot.

I'm not too sure about that. My flawed characters in my Valentine's Day contest story (can't get much more flawed than an SS Gestapo captain) fuck a lot, and still a commentor wanted a Disneyland ending.

 

[Hypoxia]

Everybody fucks up. It's only a matter of how, when, and where.

Mis-categorizing a story is not a fuckup. Burning something valuable is probably a fuckup.

Note: Just because LIT fuckups fuck a lot, doesn't mean they'll get respect. Take Under His Eyes. Please. Or Like a Hole in the Head.

How fucked up must a fuckup be? How rational are we really? The answers don't really matter. Whatever we write, some will love it, some will hate it, and most won't care. We write for our own satisfaction. If we've written players fucked enough for our taste, fine.

 

[sr71plt]

We write for our own satisfaction.

Alas, that doesn't appear to be true for a lot here--otherwise we wouldn't get the thrice-weekly posting about the "reader who doesn't love me."

 

[Hypoxia]

Alas, that doesn't appear to be true for a lot here--otherwise we wouldn't get the thrice-weekly posting about the "reader who doesn't love me."

One may write hoping for satisfaction. Doesn't mean one will attain such glory. It's like prayer -- the deity always responds but the answer may be "fuck off". Low expectations means one is never disappointed.

 

[beachbum1958]

Made me laugh, but then are you Shakespeare?

We like to give a lot of credit to the positive comments from our readers. Negative comments, not so much. But which do you learn more from? Which should you learn more from?

As an 'author' here on Lit, and I use the term advisedly, it's an obvious sop to my vanity to read 'rah, rah' comments about something I wrote, and I'd be lying if I said they didn't give me just a little warm glow inside; everyone likes to be praised, whether or not they admit it. Do I learn anything from such comments? I don't think so, it's the 'WTF did you do that for?' comments that give me food for thought, and I've had some lively debates with people who've asked me that question, then gone on to show me what they thought I did wrong. Some of the 'you suck, find another hobby' comments are obvious trolls, others make me think, even though my visceral reaction is often 'how dare they criticise my baby, I sweated blood over this blah blah blah blah, flounce out of room and sulk.' A couple of times the comment has been thought-provoking enough that I've actually gone back and edited the story to incorporate their suggestions or rectify the error the commentator has taken pains to identify, especially lapses of logic or continuity I really should have seen for myself. Overall, I think I've learned more about how to write from the 'why?' comments than the ' gush, gush, I love you' stuff. Still got a long way to go, though, but I am having fun!

 

[HandsInTheDark]

LW is beyond my experience here, but for the most part I think that Literotica readers mostly want simple character who fuck a lot. Flawed characters are probably fine as long as the flawed characters fuck a lot.

I tend to write bright characters who make good decisions, except for the ones that aren't. I figure that if someone wants their orgasms from reading, they're probably brighter than most and want smart characters. But they do have dumb moments; plot happens. No one's minded so far. They do fuck a lot.

A constantly stupid character would leave me cold. I wouldn't finish reading.

The OP's problem is likely LW. I have no idea why anyone writes there.

 

[SecondCircle]

To be the devil's advocate, I dislike when characters are too damned stupid. Take "The Walking Dead" for instance. All of the main characters in the show are just way to damned stupid to live.

But America loves them, so I think you have it right. We all love to feel smarter than others so we love characters who do stupid things so that we can feel better than them. Or maybe we just like the comic value of the fool. I don't know, but I see a lot of this in successful mainstream literature.

Good luck and keep writing.

I think it's quite the opposite actually. We THINK we are smarter than most characters in given situations. An audience has the advantage of viewing the scenario from afar in the comfort of our living room in our favorite chair. I refer to it as ACHD or Armchair Hero Disease. From the comfort of our position, we as an audience have the perspective needed to be cool, calm, and collective under pressure and make all the right decisions that characters "should have made".

When in reality, given most situations, human beings shit down our legs under any real pressure.

I've studied this affliction in writing and reading horror, where a common scenario is when a victim is running for their lives and the audience is screaming at the "dumbass" for tripping in the dark woods or dropping the car keys when their pursuers are hot on their heels. The satirical movie "Scream" (though the movie is silly) actually made fun of this, when protagonist Sidney balks at how "big breasted bimbos" stupidly run upstairs from killers in the movies when they "should be running out the front door". When only moments later, she is chased to the front door and fails to open it thanks to the chain lock before scrambling up the stairs to the second story of her home.

Humans are a boastful and brazen creature when we are merely DISCUSSING adversity. While a viewer chews popcorn and grumbles or a reader shakes their head, they just KNOW that in those given scenarios, they would perform much better. They would make all the right choices. They'd know exactly what to do. The ape bangs his chest in the tree tops. He bellows that there is no tree he cannot climb, no branch to escape his grasp. That is, until you raze the trees to the ground and reality sets in. The boastful ape scampers away from the flames squealing in terror and confusion.

I think audiences just become accustomed to certain tropes like "running from a killer". They know how it all goes, they've seen it before. So they chew popcorn loudly and roll their eyes. But in the moment? When face to face with split second decisions, when fear clouds rationality, when they shit down their legs? No one rolls their eyes.

But as a writer, "not fucking up" can simply mean to not let them roll their eyes. Give them something that PUTS them in that moment and makes them feel it. Make them feel conflicted. That is the illusion a writer must make. To whisk readers away from the comfort of their armchairs.

 

[le_kitty]

Sherlock Holmes comes to mind.

P.s. I don't watch a lot of shows, but I somehow managed to make it through to Season 4 of walking dead, by which time I had lost any respectability for the writers of the show.

P.s.s. Agatha Christie's armchair detective novels also come to mind.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Perhaps that's the case sometimes.

I tend to think, also, a writer is doing something when they take conflict and find a solution. Not a cheesy happy ending, but a thinking through of a problem. Then you may liberate someone and free them to act or do or feel something they could not before, because they were too tied up in a knot.

In GWTW, she loses the guy in the end. It doesn't provide a fairy tale HEA, but only "Tomorrow is another day." That's something.

Edith Wharton is someone I find very hard to read, because there is never any hope. Everyone fucks up or is fucked, ending in death, tragedy, loss, misery. I can't take it after a while.

But as a writer, "not fucking up" can simply mean to not let them roll their eyes. Give them something that PUTS them in that moment and makes them feel it. Make them feel conflicted. That is the illusion a writer must make. To whisk readers away from the comfort of their armchairs.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I think it's quite the opposite actually. We THINK we are smarter than most characters in given situations. An audience has the advantage of viewing the scenario from afar in the comfort of our living room in our favorite chair. I refer to it as ACHD or Armchair Hero Disease. From the comfort of our position, we as an audience have the perspective needed to be cool, calm, and collective under pressure and make all the right decisions that characters "should have made".

When in reality, given most situations, human beings shit down our legs under any real pressure.

I've studied this affliction in writing and reading horror, where a common scenario is when a victim is running for their lives and the audience is screaming at the "dumbass" for tripping in the dark woods or dropping the car keys when their pursuers are hot on their heels. The satirical movie "Scream" (though the movie is silly) actually made fun of this, when protagonist Sidney balks at how "big breasted bimbos" stupidly run upstairs from killers in the movies when they "should be running out the front door". When only moments later, she is chased to the front door and fails to open it thanks to the chain lock before scrambling up the stairs to the second story of her home.

Humans are a boastful and brazen creature when we are merely DISCUSSING adversity. While a viewer chews popcorn and grumbles or a reader shakes their head, they just KNOW that in those given scenarios, they would perform much better. They would make all the right choices. They'd know exactly what to do. The ape bangs his chest in the tree tops. He bellows that there is no tree he cannot climb, no branch to escape his grasp. That is, until you raze the trees to the ground and reality sets in. The boastful ape scampers away from the flames squealing in terror and confusion.

I think audiences just become accustomed to certain tropes like "running from a killer". They know how it all goes, they've seen it before. So they chew popcorn loudly and roll their eyes. But in the moment? When face to face with split second decisions, when fear clouds rationality, when they shit down their legs? No one rolls their eyes.

But as a writer, "not fucking up" can simply mean to not let them roll their eyes. Give them something that PUTS them in that moment and makes them feel it. Make them feel conflicted. That is the illusion a writer must make. To whisk readers away from the comfort of their armchairs.

I learned very young that when the shit hits the fan no one wants to be the boss.In a 911 crisis, if you know what to do, aint nobody gonna stop you from doing what needs to be done. People are cowards and clueless and lazy, most of the time. Clint Eastwood made a movie career exposing people for what they aren't.

I own a fat book about pediatric heart surgery. The surgeon who trains clowns to operate on infants confirms what I say. Even brainiacs are cowards and clueless and lazy. And the really smart wont follow directions.

Fucking up and fucking are human nature.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

LW (Loving Wives) is the LIT form of combat zone. Combat Zone is the place angels fear to tread, and the cowards never go, and us fools go to die. The Combat Zone is the place where clear & present danger is preferable to relentless chicken shit.

 

[Miss_Lucie]

I have wondered about this. I find the comments on stories interesting...unfortunately you will never be able to please everyone that stumbles across your stories. I dislike when people comment negatively, I wonder how many of them are brave enough to write!

The whole happy ending thing, Disneyfication! I personally like fuck ups, stupid characters not so much, but everyone fucks up along the line. Why should you make your characters perfect?