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On abortion

Ishmael said:
I'll try to cover all your points here, maybe.

Legal is merely what passes for fashion during any given period. Hitler's killing of millions was all quite legal. As was Stalin's and Mao's killing of their citizens. And that's just to address some more recent history. Most of the most morally abominable events that took place throughout history were all done quite legally. So using a 'legal' definition of 'murder' has no sway on me at all. You might as well go back to 1859 and be arguing that slavery is legal.

Neither the constitution, nor the courts, should be polluted with matters of sex or marriage. That is a matter for the various states to decide.

My own opinion re. gay marriage is well known and of long standing on this board, don't presume that you can read my mind when a little research will allow you to read my exact words.

Ishmael
Click to expand...

You said "abortion is murder, there is no other word that fits." It doesn't fit. I explained why. Someone who says that abortion is murder is either using inflammatory language to inject more emotion into an already contentious issue or lacks a basic understanding of legal terminology. Someone who draws a tenuous parallel between a legal medical procedure and the millions slain by Hitler and Stalin is being either silly or obtuse. Again, no one is saying that abortion isn't a tricky question or doesn't deserve careful consideration, but if we're going to have a discussion, let's start by using the correct words.

If it were 1859, I would argue that slavery was legal in the US. Look, I'll even do it right now: in 1859, slavery was legal in the US. What we're talking about is whether or not abortion is moral and whether or not we can or should legislate based upon that conclusion, but that's a moot point because you've already recognized it as an irrepressible market.

I don't know your opinion on gay marriage and didn't ask for it, and we should be able to carry on a casual conversation about politics without either of us having to "research" the other. I was curious as to your opinions on gay marriage opponents who allow the issue have a significant effect on their votes.

I appreciate your response. You're not going to change my convictions, but I'd genuinely like to better understand your argument. I certainly cannot read your mind and don't presume to, but then I'm not sure whether it would be a help or a hindrance in knowing your thoughts and motives - I don't think the contents of my mind would make sense to anyone but me :)
 
I actually kind of agree with Ish on some of this. I'm personally not a fan of abortion but I don't judge anyone who has one and I am very much pro-choice until the point of viability.
 
Phelia said:
You said "abortion is murder, there is no other word that fits." It doesn't fit. I explained why. Someone who says that abortion is murder is either using inflammatory language to inject more emotion into an already contentious issue or lacks a basic understanding of legal terminology. Someone who draws a tenuous parallel between a legal medical procedure and the millions slain by Hitler and Stalin is being either silly or obtuse. Again, no one is saying that abortion isn't a tricky question or doesn't deserve careful consideration, but if we're going to have a discussion, let's start by using the correct words.

If it were 1859, I would argue that slavery was legal in the US. Look, I'll even do it right now: in 1859, slavery was legal in the US. What we're talking about is whether or not abortion is moral and whether or not we can or should legislate based upon that conclusion, but that's a moot point because you've already recognized it as an irrepressible market.

I don't know your opinion on gay marriage and didn't ask for it, and we should be able to carry on a casual conversation about politics without either of us having to "research" the other. I was curious as to your opinions on gay marriage opponents who allow the issue have a significant effect on their votes.

I appreciate your response. You're not going to change my convictions, but I'd genuinely like to better understand your argument. I certainly cannot read your mind and don't presume to, but then I'm not sure whether it would be a help or a hindrance in knowing your thoughts and motives - I don't think the contents of my mind would make sense to anyone but me :)
Click to expand...

Don't be lazy. He only has over 68,000 posts to read through to try and discern his position. Why should he have to put the effort into articulating it in one or two sentences. ;)
 
sweetvee said:
I actually kind of agree with Ish on some of this. I'm personally not a fan of abortion but I don't judge anyone who has one and I am very much pro-choice until the point of viability.
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No one with a functioning brain is a "fan of abortion. " Did you really just type that?
 
Ishmael said:
Another with reading comprehension issues.

Of course I have never born a child, or ever will. But what you are doing is avoiding the entire discussion in a fit of emotionalism.

Did you miss my pro-choice statement? Or did you miss the inference that if it's a choice between the mother (still living) and the child, I choose the life of the mother?

Not being of a religious bent I'm certainly not going to condemn you to Hell, it seems to me that you've already done that to yourself.

You made your choice and you're going to have to live with it, just as 3000 years of women, high born or not, have had to do.

Ishmael
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Yes, we saw you claim to be pro-choice in the same post that you called exercising that option, 'murder,' and in which you also said, "vote anti-abortion or vote doom for America.

Were you to make a post that makes sense, you might get responses that aren't dismissive.

I won't wait though, and you shouldn't either.
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to state, for the record, come November I will literally be voting with my lady bits. I'm going to clench that pen tight, internally and cast my vote.

I'm in training now.
 
kbate said:
Yes, we saw you claim to be pro-choice in the same post that you called exercising that option, 'murder,' and in which you also said, "vote anti-abortion or vote doom for America.

Were you to make a post that made sense, you might get responses that weren't dismissive.

I won't wait though, and you shouldn't either.
Click to expand...

As teh noted philosopher Noddy Holder once intoned, "See the chameleon, lying there, in the sun. All things to everyone, run, run away..."

Ishmael is trying to have it both ways, as usual. He's virulently anti-abortion, but that won't get him cyberpussy. Hence, he's trying to meet women halfway.
 
Everyone who is anti-abortion needs to offer to pay for the medical care and adopt the heroin addicted babies.

They say aborting a clump of cells is murder, but they won't hesitate to throw away an actual human being after they are born.
 
WingedKiss said:
I just wanted to state, for the record, come November I will literally be voting with my lady bits. I'm going to clench that pen tight, internally and cast my vote.

I'm in training now.
Click to expand...

Good God, woman, that'll require one thousand kegels a day!
 
HAL_9000 said:
Everyone who is anti-abortion needs to offer to pay for the medical care and adopt the heroin addicted babies.

They say aborting a clump of cells is murder, but they won't hesitate to throw away an actual human being after they are born.
Click to expand...

If I had a nickel for every poor innocent to hit the slab...

Geezus, Turd. This shit ain't fun.
 
QueenLevitra said:
If I had a nickel for every poor innocent to hit the slab...

Geezus, Turd. This shit ain't fun.
Click to expand...

No shit. The last thing these women need is a bunch of idiots calling them murderers.

Teenage girls who made a mistake, prostitutes who have no idea who the father is, drug addicts who know the baby will be addicted, or regular people who find out the fetus has severe problems.

The protesters kind of piss me off, standing around with posters of dead babies.
 
HAL_9000 said:
Everyone who is anti-abortion needs to offer to pay for the medical care and adopt the heroin addicted babies.

They say aborting a clump of cells is murder, but they won't hesitate to throw away an actual human being after they are born.
Click to expand...


I don't get it either. Especially the "Christians".
 
HAL_9000 said:
No shit. The last thing these women need is a bunch of idiots calling them murderers.

Teenage girls who made a mistake, prostitutes who have no idea who the father is, drug addicts who know the baby will be addicted, or regular people who find out the fetus has severe problems.

The protesters kind of piss me off, standing around with posters of dead babies.
Click to expand...

nicely stated.
 
Well, ask any good conservative, and he will tell you that abortion DOES cause breast cancer, and it has done so throughout the entire 6,000 year history of the Earth....even back when men and dinosaurs ruled the Earth together.
 
WingedKiss said:
I just wanted to state, for the record, come November I will literally be voting with my lady bits. I'm going to clench that pen tight, internally and cast my vote.

I'm in training now.
Click to expand...
Would Diebold machines make that easier or harder?
 
Disgustipated said:
"Abortion" Behind the Scenes on VH1 did for me.
Click to expand...
When Blood Clot almost OD'd, I'm not afraid to admit I cried. Well, almost cried. I started to cry, and then sucked the tears right out of my head with a vacuum cleaner.
 
Ishmael said:
Another political season, another round of the discussions regarding abortion.

Abortion is murder, there is no other word that fits. You may call it the elimination of an 'nonviable tissue mass', or any other phrase you want, but it's still murder.

Why?

Human life begins at conception because that is the only place it can start. From the fertilization of the egg you are dealing with an individual human being. As far as being nonviable, the same can be said of any child up to a certain, and variable, age. Take a toddler to the wilderness, abandon them, and they exhibit all of the traits of a nonviable tissue mass. They are going to die and the individual(s) that dropped them off are going to be charged with murder. That being the case why not allow postpartum abortions as well? The same logic applies.

I happen to be pro-choice, at least during the first trimester. Not because I believe that abortion isn't murder, but merely because that women have been practicing abortion and birth control throughout recorded history and I can see no value to society by criminalizing a 3000 year old tradition.

That being said, you women can vote your uterus or you can vote for the best for the nation. And if you think your uterus is what the future of the nation hinges on.......God help us all.

Ishmael
Click to expand...

Logical fallacy 101 for $1,000, Alex.

Jesus H Christ. I knew you could post some asinine shit, Ish, but really?
 
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