Olivianna and I talk Architecture (et. cetera)

[kotori]

Feel free to join it. (Like I could stop you.)

borrowed--okay, stolen--from the Lavy sig thread

K: Nah, I've never been a fan of kitsch

O: Yo, Kotori. What's up? Let's talk architecture or something.

K: Sure. What do you think of Zaha Hadid's work?

O: Oops. Who's that?

K: She's an Iranian-borm architect, working in the West. She did lot's of really weird stuff in the late '80s (all on paper), was mentioned in the big "Deconstruction" show at MOMA in 1990. Since then, she's started to build some things, which of course, when faced with the practicalities of actually standing up have been somewhat tempered (the loss of naïveté?), but is still pretty "kickass" as a designer. Lemme look for some images.

O: I'm shamefully ignorant of most things modern. Now, mention Iranian architecture from the 15th century, and I am much more comfortable.

K: I revel in the modern, even more so than the post modern. I want a modernist revival--all white and über-rational, clean and square. I'm shamefully ignorant of most things outside Western Europe or North America. If you want to talk quatrocentro, I have to stick with renaissance Italia.

And, btw, I haven't been able to find any pictures of Hadid's work yet.

 

[islandman]

I talked to her about stuff last week. Bright mind, that one.

 

[kotori]

Stuff is nice too. Thank you.

 

[70/30]

Which is the best looking American Monument? The St Louis Arch, The Statue of Liberty, Mount Rushmore, Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial, Washington Monument, or Monument Valley?

 

[Pyper]

The Vietnam Memorial.

 

[kotori]

Umm...

Monument Valley (when filmed by John Ford).

Mount Rushmore (when filmed by Alfred Hitchcock). Though he filmed Lady Liberty, too.

Saarenin's catenary thrills the Modernist in me.

Lincoln Memorial will forever have Marian Anderson singing from the steps (now that's art), or Dr. King's "I have a dream."

Washington Monument is the tallest masonry structure in the world. Ask Perquita, she knows.

 

[kotori]

The Vietnam Memorial.

Designed by Mya Linn. It's the only one mentioned that makes me cry every time I visit. The partie is simple to point of tears: names of the dead inscribed on a wall, chronologically. As the years progressed, and the war escallated, and the number or names increased, the height of the wall increased. But rather than getting taller, the top of the wall stays at the same elevation, and the ground sinks before us, allowing us to plumb the depths of that wrenching, emotional period. As the war winds down, and the number of deaths decrease, we ascend again towards grade. It's not pretty, among the "best looking," but it is perfect.

 

[Pyper]

I would say that the true impact of the Vietnam Memorial is its black reflective surface, allowing the visitors to not only see the names of the dead, but their own faces as well. It makes them face themselves, making the grief experience personal, and perhaps calling to mind greater questions about war and its consequences.

 

[perks]

*cough*duck architecture*cough*

 

[Olivianna]

Ok. Palazzo del Te. (Picture coming up in a minute.)

Do you think we're in a Mannerist period today?

 

[Olivianna]

Palazzo del Te, Giulio Romano.

 

[Olivianna]

Hanging triglyph.

 

[kotori]

Palazzo del Te, Giulio Romano.

Not to mention the flat arch inside the pediment. lol, that Giullio was quite a card.

It's hard to say if this is a mannerist period. I think it may have started out that way if we look at early Robert Venturi (Vanna Venturi House, etc.) or Eisenmann or Graves, but certainly Gerhy's work is "beyond" modern (rather than post-modern), and somehow feels like form unleashed by technology (i.e., computer 3-D modeling).

 

[Olivianna]

Ya know, I really feel totally incompetent with approaching the problem of modern, post-modern, and post-post-modern architecture. These areas in which I'm completely untrained. But perhaps you'll be able to help me out with my comprehensive exams...

 

[kotori]

Um, well, I can try to help. How comprehensive is it? I mean, where do you begin?

As far as modern/po-mo/decon etc., I think one of the key ideas wa something Venturi wrote in Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture (which I have a first edition of, btw, 1966) that instead of the traditional "either/or" dichotomy, we now have a "both/and" situation. So you can have Quinlan Terry and Frank Gerhy and everything inbetween.

 

[kotori]

That's Quinlan Terry's Howard Theatre at Downing College, Cambridge (1986). All "traditional" materials and methods, but very modern in the simple partie, straightforwardness of construction; a direct line from Renaissance rationalism.

 

[Olivianna]

Um, well, I can try to help. How comprehensive is it? I mean, where do you begin?

As far as modern/po-mo/decon etc., I think one of the key ideas wa something Venturi wrote in Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture (which I have a first edition of, btw, 1966) that instead of the traditional "either/or" dichotomy, we now have a "both/and" situation. So you can have Quinlan Terry and Frank Gerhy and everything inbetween.

.

So, from Saussure to Derrida? More, please.

 

[kotori]

Question: What do you get when you cross Derrida with a member of the Mafia?
Answer: Someone making you an offer you can't understand, or refuse!

I dunno--too much talkin', not enough pictures for me.

 

[Olivianna]

I'm well-versed in theory, but not so familiar with the pictures/objects. Bring 'em on!

 

[horny_giraffe]

I don't know much about architecture, but has anyone ever read Faucault's Panopticon? It's an interesting interpretation of a prison created by Jeremy Bentham.

The idea of the prison is an old one. It's kind of a reverse ampitheatre. A central tower surrounded by a sort of arcade of cells, so that all occupants of the arcade can be easily viewed. The tower is opaque, so that the prisoners never know if they are being viewed at any particular moment...

 

[Olivianna]

I don't know much about architecture, but has anyone ever read Faucault's Panopticon? It's an interesting interpretation of a prison created by Jeremy Bentham.

The idea of the prison is an old one. It's kind of a reverse ampitheatre. A central tower surrounded by a sort of arcade of cells, so that all occupants of the arcade can be easily viewed. The tower is opaque, so that the prisoners never know if they are being viewed at any particular moment...

Yeah, totally. In addition to the prospect of always being viewed, the prisoner is also faced with the omnipresence of the authoritative gaze, which is positioned in a central location, virtually at the center of the inmate's world.

Foucault contructs an interesting ride, but his authority has eroded since it's been discovered that he fabricated a lot of his "primary sources."

 

[horny_giraffe]

Yeah, totally. In addition to the prospect of always being viewed, the prisoner is also faced with the omnipresence of the authoritative gaze, which is positioned in a central location, virtually at the center of the inmate's world.

Foucault contructs an interesting ride, but his authority has eroded since it's been discovered that he fabricated a lot of his "primary sources."

Personally, I found his Panopticon to be little more than those few ideas stre-eeetched out with overly complicated language.
I haven't read anything else of his--just the one article.

For a good laugh about postmodernism, check out the postmodernism generator (http://dev.null.org/dadaengine/) if you haven't already seen it.

I've noticed a trend in restaurant decor where bits of lathe and plaster construction are exposed against against brick. I think it's intended to give the restaurant a kind of old-world feel. This sort of thing has some appeal to me, although I'm not sure if it's so much deconstructivist as it is just a sort of a pretentious simulated decay.

I've got some ideas about decay that I am exploring, myself, but I'm more interested in acquiring some good sculpture. Original architecture often seems to be confined to the wealthy and to civic buildings, don't you think?

 

[peachykeen]

. Original architecture often seems to be confined to the wealthy and to civic buildings, don't you think?

Sad but true, says Mr. Keen. There seems to be little room for it anywhere else.

 

[Olivianna]

Original architecture often seems to be confined to the wealthy and to civic buildings, don't you think?

Ah, but what do you mean by original?

 

[horny_giraffe]

Ha! You caught me!

Boy, we could have a whole 'nother discussion about authenticity and/or originality, and I probably wouldn't "win."

Let it be sufficient, though, to say that I will probably not be able to afford the services of an architecture firm, except to consult a plan book.