Occasional crossovers

[any111]

How many lesbians have a guilty desire for some cock and indulge now and then? This is for only those who consider themselves full lesbinas, not bi. by the way, if gay guys want to participate (same question, only change 'cock' to 'pussy') they would be welcomed.

 

[Milene]

Reformulate the question(s)

Uh, excuse me, but this is not a poll. You cannot answer the questions presented with a simple checkmark.

 

[any111]

Sorry. How utterly stupid of me!

This is the first time I've done anything like this. I guess I'll have to try to figure out how to go back and fix it...but I'm still stupid.

 

[Etoile]

Well, nobody has to answer the poll part, they can just post in this thread.

I will say this: it's a lot more common than people think. I know plenty of self-identified lesbians who have sex with men occasionally, and I know some gay men who sometimes have sex with women.

"Gay" and "lesbian" - and even "straight" - are convenient labels. They mean "for the most part, this is who I like to interact with on a sexual and romantic level." But not everybody is going to fit into a neat little box. That's why I say it's more common than people think. Most people think "oh, lesbians never have sex with men" - but some lesbians DO. Just like people think "oh, straight people never have sex with their same sex" - but some of them DO. Labels are convenient but they are not one size fits all.

A lot of people would like to say that these people are bisexual. This is where the word self-identification comes in. You can think she's a bisexual in your head if you want, but if a woman says she's a lesbian, she's a lesbian. YOU don't get to decide what someone is...THEY do.

 

[Tymeless]

A lot of people would like to say that these people are bisexual. This is where the word self-identification comes in. You can think she's a bisexual in your head if you want, but if a woman says she's a lesbian, she's a lesbian. YOU don't get to decide what someone is...THEY do.

always good with the words etoile!

 

[any111]

But do they?

If I want to consider myself straight, but i have sex with my same gender on a fairly regular basis, don't my actions determine my person, rather than my words?

 

[hotTSwantabe]

wrong way to look at it

the way i feel, is i make love to the person, not the plumbing. if i want to be with this person i enjoy, must i choose the depth of the relationship, by what their plumbing is? is we hit it off, why must i stop, cuz the pee standing up, or sit? it is the person, and the soul i take to my bed, not the plumbing.

i am new to all this, but have been with many men, and women, and i get same enjoyment from both. i am a sexual person, i am not bi, or gay or straight, i am me, and enjoy being so.


i dress in private, i only shared it with 1 person, and she was jelous. i am starting to think i want to take the further. so i feel i am transgendered at heart. i am looking for guidance to go further. i saw this string, and had to say my piece.

 

[Etoile]

If I want to consider myself straight, but i have sex with my same gender on a fairly regular basis, don't my actions determine my person, rather than my words?

My opinion is "no way." You are who YOU want to be. If YOU feel your actions make you bisexual or gay, then YOU are identifying that way. But what I think about you doesn't define who you are. It's not my responsibility to label you.

 

[any111]

Truth or facade?

Etolie, if truth is what is followed and aspired to, then yhou are wrong. But if we only follow what we "want" to be the truth, we will never know if yuou are right or wrong, because truth doesn't exist, and therefore, truth is whatever we decide it is. If I think truth is 2 plus 2 is 5, then it is. But of course, we all know that 2+2=5...always, no matter what want to consider it to be.

Am I right?

 

[any111]

sorry-math typo

2+2=4

 

[Etoile]

Etolie, if truth is what is followed and aspired to, then yhou are wrong. But if we only follow what we "want" to be the truth, we will never know if yuou are right or wrong, because truth doesn't exist, and therefore, truth is whatever we decide it is. If I think truth is 2 plus 2 is 5, then it is. But of course, we all know that 2+2=5...always, no matter what want to consider it to be.

Am I right?

No, I wouldn't say you're right. For one thing, mathematics and identity politics are very different things.

However, you're correct that truth is whatever we decide it is. I'm talking about MY truth...what right do you have to impose YOUR truth on my world? Why do you get to be the arbiter of what is true and what is not? Even if society at large has one interpretation of the truth, that doesn't mean that my truth can't apply in my world. It may mean I am forever having to explain myself, but it doesn't mean that I'm wrong in my interpretation of the truth. It means "this is the way things are for me." How you deal with the information is up to you, like I said, you can say to yourself anything you like in your head. But you don't get to define or label me...only I get to do that. Now, maybe it happens that I agree with your label. But maybe I don't. Whose label is the truth? I'd say it's mine, because it's about me. You can label yourself how you want, and you can think you know how to label me, but only I get to really define who I am.

Again, identity politics cannot be compared to mathematics, biology, or anything else. Identity is about who you are inside, not something that can be determined by outside factors. If I am a puppy, and I go around saying I am a kitten, then somebody is going to show me a picture of a kitten and say "see? triangular ears, retractable claws, this is a kitten. You have floppy ears and toenails, you are a puppy." That's a fact, that's biology. But you can't see what I am on the inside - only I know my innermost thoughts. So I'm the only one who can establish my identity.

 

[any111]

How about this.

No, truth is not whatever we want it to be. I disagree on that. But let's stick to one thing at a time. So if what you're saying is, ahem, 'true' then is Hitler's truth true for him, and the rapist's truth is not to be argued with? After all, his ntruth is that he gets to rape women and abuse their bodies. You can prefer not to do what he does, but you cannot impose your truth, (the raping women is) upon him. We cannot impose our truth upon Hitler and say that killing Jews and Christians is wrong. Under your ideology, we can only say that enslaving people becuase they have black skin, murdering Jews and Christians, raping women, is only one of many morally neutral practices that we decide not to do. So, the next time a child askes, "Can I steal, or kill, or hurt?" All you can say is, "If that is YOUR truth, sure. Go ahead."

 

[Etoile]

No, truth is not whatever we want it to be. I disagree on that. But let's stick to one thing at a time. So if what you're saying is, ahem, 'true' then is Hitler's truth true for him, and the rapist's truth is not to be argued with? After all, his ntruth is that he gets to rape women and abuse their bodies. You can prefer not to do what he does, but you cannot impose your truth, (the raping women is) upon him. We cannot impose our truth upon Hitler and say that killing Jews and Christians is wrong. Under your ideology, we can only say that enslaving people becuase they have black skin, murdering Jews and Christians, raping women, is only one of many morally neutral practices that we decide not to do. So, the next time a child askes, "Can I steal, or kill, or hurt?" All you can say is, "If that is YOUR truth, sure. Go ahead."

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges, you're missing my point. Mathematics and identity politics are not the same thing. Moral/legal standards and identity politics are not the same thing.

When I say that I decide my truth, I am referring to the truth about my identity. You are attempting to apply that to math (saying 2+2=5) and morals (saying it's okay to kill). You seem to be totally missing that I am talking about internal human mental states.

I fear we've gotten way off the topic, though.

 

[any111]

Not so

I am not missing the point, you are attempting to re-adjust the point. Truth is not dependent on how one 'feels' about the subject, be it math, morality, or identity. If there is a guy running around an asylum screaming he is Teddy Roosevelt, he is wrong-inaccurate-mistaken. To HIM, his identity is that he is a dead 20th century president. But so what. He isn't. He is wrong. Why is he wrong? Because when he is viewed objectively with a rational look at the Evidence" of who he is, we see that he is infact, NOT Roosevelt. There is no difference in that and someone saying they are straight, but just as wrong due to what the truth is of their behavior. So your mistake in your thinking is that you seem to be under the illusion that a subjective assessment trumps an objective one. That is simply ass backwards. All respect given.

 

[Etoile]

I am not missing the point, you are attempting to re-adjust the point. Truth is not dependent on how one 'feels' about the subject, be it math, morality, or identity. If there is a guy running around an asylum screaming he is Teddy Roosevelt, he is wrong-inaccurate-mistaken. To HIM, his identity is that he is a dead 20th century president. But so what. He isn't. He is wrong. Why is he wrong? Because when he is viewed objectively with a rational look at the Evidence" of who he is, we see that he is infact, NOT Roosevelt. There is no difference in that and someone saying they are straight, but just as wrong due to what the truth is of their behavior. So your mistake in your thinking is that you seem to be under the illusion that a subjective assessment trumps an objective one. That is simply ass backwards. All respect given.

If you want to persist in your belief that someone who has sex with both men and women is bisexual, that's up to you. For me, I prefer to respect the label that person has claimed for him or herself, whether it is straight or gay or whatever. As I mentioned, you are free to think whatever you want in your head; I just hope you don't try to tell somebody "you think you're straight but really you're bisexual" because that just sounds offensive, IMHO.

 

[any111]

It sounds offensive?

Does it sound offensive, TO YOU? Or is it objectively, in truth, offensive. If if doesn't sound offensive to me, then according to you, it isn't offensive-right?

 

[Etoile]

Does it sound offensive, TO YOU? Or is it objectively, in truth, offensive. If if doesn't sound offensive to me, then according to you, it isn't offensive-right?

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

 

[any111]

Sorry

I didn't mean to spend time on this debate, I was really looking for gay/lesbian people who 'crossover' once in a while. Well, it was too interesting I guess.

 

[Etoile]

I didn't mean to spend time on this debate, I was really looking for gay/lesbian people who 'crossover' once in a while. Well, it was too interesting I guess.

What I don't understand is why you asked the question, if you already have your mind made up.

 

[BitterIchor]

We all have a different perspective on life. In my dark little corner of the world, "gay" people who occasionaly enjoy sex with people of the opposite gender are bisexual.

 

[Etoile]

We all have a different perspective on life. In my dark little corner of the world, "gay" people who occasionaly enjoy sex with people of the opposite gender are bisexual.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Many people agree with you. The problem arises when you tell somebody "you're bisexual" and they say "no, I'm not" but you continue to press the point. When someone checks a box on the sexual orientation form, or applies for a scholarship based on sexual orientation, or joins a sexual orientation-based affinity group...they are the one who decides what group they go in. Not you, not me. Like I said, you can think whatever you want in your head, but that doesn't mean you are the arbiter of what someone IS.

I know quite a few dykes who play with men on occasion, and I would never presume to tell them what they "really" are. To be honest, I find that equally insensitive as telling a pre-op trans woman she isn't female because she still has a penis. People do that all the time, but it's rude and disrespectful. I happen to feel the same way about sexual orientation.

 

[BitterIchor]

And there's nothing wrong with that. Many people agree with you. The problem arises when you tell somebody "you're bisexual" and they say "no, I'm not" but you continue to press the point. When someone checks a box on the sexual orientation form, or applies for a scholarship based on sexual orientation, or joins a sexual orientation-based affinity group...they are the one who decides what group they go in. Not you, not me. Like I said, you can think whatever you want in your head, but that doesn't mean you are the arbiter of what someone IS.

I know quite a few dykes who play with men on occasion, and I would never presume to tell them what they "really" are. To be honest, I find that equally insensitive as telling a pre-op trans woman she isn't female because she still has a penis. People do that all the time, but it's rude and disrespectful. I happen to feel the same way about sexual orientation.

Yeah. I generally don't tell people "what" they are. Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean that I force it upon others. I have a little more respect than that.

But I am allowed to have this opinion, though. Because if anyone was to tell me what opinions I can or can't have, then that would be just as bad as me telling them what they are or aren't. The solution is simple; to amicably agree to disagree.

 

[StrixVaria]

Hell, attraction is attraction - which can lead to unusual situations. Lesbians may find themselves attracted to a non-op trans, Straights may find themselves attracted to people of apparently the same gender for weird unaccountable reasons. Life is just weird that way. The varriations are too many to count, but at some point in almost everyone's life, they find themselves either wondering about or acting on something outside the norm for them.
I wound up in bed with a FTM on one occation. He is gay, I was "something else", but found him dead sexy for some weird reason. And, to be honest, I had no idea he didn't have a penis until we were way past the point of no return.
I've never done anything like that again, but can't rule out the possibility that I won't in the future.

 

[Wolfman1982]

BitterIchor: I know a lesbian who does the socalled "ocassional crossover". But why I am not explaining , why and who and other stuff. Is because it is FUCKING private, who and what and so forth it is. And if you called her a bisexual, in Swedish, then I think she would be pissed at you, and shout the worst Swedish/Danish hatred jokes at you.
Since she is a L-E-S-B-I-A-N. All the way.

Heck, I know a man. Who is straight, but he loves to suck a cock every fucking now and then, and if you called him a bicurious man or something in that direction, he would probably laugh at you. And tell this "no mate, I am just horny at times, and nothing is better than enjoying a cock in my mouth every now and then".

BI: nothing is always black and fucking white. There are ALOT of grey areas.

And I am bisexual, but if you called me gay, I would spit you in the face, and shout "no fucking way I am gay !". Because people who sees themselfs as gay but likes to have some pussy every now and then, is not suddenly bi of some sort. And vice versa.

I am bisexual, not straight, or gay. Even if I find a woman live out my life with her, without having even tried a man . Then you would probably say "no you were straight, but played with the thought, that you maybe were bi". Bollocks lady. I can be a bisexual virgin for all my life if it mattered.

So cut it into the bone for you

A woman can be a lesbian, but she loves to suck cocks, and loves the taste of sperm (we had one of those cool ladies ), untill a cunt of a woman scared her away with her socalled "real lesbian bullshit" forum thread.

And I was cool with the cock loving lesbian woman. But BitterIchor, you hurt more people by your black and white statements, than the opposite.

 

[BitterIchor]

BitterIchor: I know a lesbian who does the socalled "ocassional crossover". But why I am not explaining , why and who and other stuff. Is because it is FUCKING private, who and what and so forth it is. And if you called her a bisexual, in Swedish, then I think she would be pissed at you, and shout the worst Swedish/Danish hatred jokes at you.
Since she is a L-E-S-B-I-A-N. All the way.

Heck, I know a man. Who is straight, but he loves to suck a cock every fucking now and then, and if you called him a bicurious man or something in that direction, he would probably laugh at you. And tell this "no mate, I am just horny at times, and nothing is better than enjoying a cock in my mouth every now and then".

BI: nothing is always black and fucking white. There are ALOT of grey areas.

And I am bisexual, but if you called me gay, I would spit you in the face, and shout "no fucking way I am gay !". Because people who sees themselfs as gay but likes to have some pussy every now and then, is not suddenly bi of some sort. And vice versa.

I am bisexual, not straight, or gay. Even if I find a woman live out my life with her, without having even tried a man . Then you would probably say "no you were straight, but played with the thought, that you maybe were bi". Bollocks lady. I can be a bisexual virgin for all my life if it mattered.

So cut it into the bone for you

A woman can be a lesbian, but she loves to suck cocks, and loves the taste of sperm (we had one of those cool ladies ), untill a cunt of a woman scared her away with her socalled "real lesbian bullshit" forum thread.

And I was cool with the cock loving lesbian woman. But BitterIchor, you hurt more people by your black and white statements, than the opposite.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I suggest you calm down a little.