Obama Says America is Not a Christian Nation…

[amicus]

http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/04/07/obama-we-are-not-christian-nation-nation-citizens

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/obama-says-america-is-not-a-christian-nation/

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Obama Says America is Not a Christian Nation…


Really?


I defer to the Supreme Court of the United States:

“If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find every where a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: the form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen;” the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing every where under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.”

- Justice Brewer [CHURCH OF THE HOLY TRINITY V. UNITED STATES, 143 U. S. 457 (1892)]

~~~

You may think it odd that an avowed atheist would exhibit concern over the above statement by the new President of the United States.

The reason I do, is for the same reason I have been following the vicious assault on a new poster here, wmrs2, a self identified Christian who is defending the faith and being excoriated for it.

In the absence of basic Christian Morality, upon which the United States was founded, there is the relativist/humanistic code of ethics to rely upon, which has proven to be ineffectual in defining moral terms concerning individual human life and a consistent means to understand and judge human actions.

Amicus...

 

[DesertPirate]

Since he hasn't found another church run by a marxist bigot, I am not surprised. His brand of so called Christianity is responsible for this comment.

 

[amicus]

I agree...maybe they can move Reverend 'wrong's' church from Chicago to D.C.?

oh how I love word play....almost as much as....ahm....**** ****, read my asterisks...heh, ah like that...

the always amiable amicus....

 

[S-Des]

I agree...maybe they can move Reverend 'wrong's' church from Chicago to D.C.?

It wouldn't matter. The man who said middle-class blacks were sell-outs has retired and taken the $6 million house in Tinley Park his congregation gave him. Who would have thought being a "Man of God" would pay so well?

I couldn't care less what President Obama says about the religious nature of this country. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with his (or the Government's) approval. The next time a Republican (or Conservative Democrat) is in the office, you'll hear the opposite rhetoric. That won't matter to me either.

 

[amicus]

Personally agree with your sentiments exactly...however...

What effect might that pronouncement have on the 'moral majority', those faith based religious people from all walks of life who hear their President state that America is not a Christian nation?

I suggest this is no small thing, nor is his deep bow to the Saudi King.

Amicus

 

[cloudy]

This nation was not founded as a "Christian nation."

Deal.

 

[sr71plt]

You may think it odd that an avowed atheist would exhibit concern over the above statement by the new President of the United States.
Amicus...

I don't find it odd at all; you love to stir the shit.

Had to go all the way back to 1892 to do it?

 

[manyeyedhydra]

It shouldn't be a Christian nation, or a Muslim nation, or a Jewish nation and so on...

Religion is a private thing. Mix it up with politics and patriotism and it starts to get ugly.

 

[cloudy]

It shouldn't be a Christian nation, or a Muslim nation, or a Jewish nation and so on...

Religion is a private thing. Mix it up with politics and patriotism and it starts to get ugly.

Thank you.

 

[amicus]

Cloudy, Manyeyedhydra...that America is not a Christian nation, as spoken by the President, becomes somewhat problematical, doncha think?

I would prefer America to be a nation of reason and rationality, which translates to 'atheist', but I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

I think the President has stepped on a 'political landmine' with both the statement and the deep bow to a Monarch. One might have smiled had he bowed to the 5'4" Queen of England, but not the robed King of the Saudi's.

We shall see...

Amicus

 

[Guest]

Personally agree with your sentiments exactly...however...

What effect might that pronouncement have on the 'moral majority', those faith based religious people from all walks of life who hear their President state that America is not a Christian nation?

I suggest this is no small thing, nor is his deep bow to the Saudi King.

Amicus

You shoudl have said, "...the so-called 'moral majority'." Being a professed Christian doesn't make one moral; that's based on one's actions and relationship with Jesus Christ, as I understand it.

However you look at it, though, the majority appears to be diminishing:

There it was, an old term with new urgency: post-Christian. This is not to say that the Christian God is dead, but that he is less of a force in American politics and culture than at any other time in recent memory. To the surprise of liberals who fear the advent of an evangelical theocracy and to the dismay of religious conservatives who long to see their faith more fully expressed in public life, Christians are now making up a declining percentage of the American population.

Very well thought-out and, from my perspective, even-handed treatment of the subject matter here.

 

[Guest]

Damned double post. I didn't mean to be THAT emphatic!

 

[amicus]

Your 'Newsweek' piece was referred to on the news tonight, as a 'failing weekly news magazine, losing subscribers, losing advertisers, firing reporters and editors, deperately seeking an audience with 'yellow journalism', sensationalism to attract readers', I paraphrase, of course...

It will be interesting to see how the main stream press manipulates the news yet again.

amicus

 

[Dragonlipz]

To the original BULLSHIT post

http://www.thefoxnation.com/politics/2009/04/07/obama-we-are-not-christian-nation-nation-citizens

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/obama-says-america-is-not-a-christian-nation/

« Turkish Reporter Mocks Obama in Blackface Makeup »

Obama Says America is Not a Christian Nation…


Really?


I defer to the Supreme Court of the United States:

- Justice Brewer [CHURCH OF THE HOLY TRINITY V. UNITED STATES, 143 U. S. 457 (1892)]

~~~

You may think it odd that an avowed atheist would exhibit concern over the above statement by the new President of the United States.

The reason I do, is for the same reason I have been following the vicious assault on a new poster here, wmrs2, a self identified Christian who is defending the faith and being excoriated for it.

In the absence of basic Christian Morality, upon which the United States was founded, there is the relativist/humanistic code of ethics to rely upon, which has proven to be ineffectual in defining moral terms concerning individual human life and a consistent means to understand and judge human actions.

Amicus...

President Barack Obama did NOT say ever say that America is not a Christian nation. He never said that. Quit posting bullshit! Yer not Rush Limbaugh and yer not on the radio. I gave yer troll ass some slack because you expressed sympathy for Selena's loss (as opposed to the rest of the trolls on this site!) but please......quit with yer bullshit......
If the President does something that is hypocritical or dishonest, please let us know.....of course you ignored Bush's peccadillos for eight years.....the election is over, twit. Get over the fact that a mixed race person is President. Better yet, get out that sheet you've had in the closet.....Light a cross......eat another twinkie.....

 

[Dragonlipz]

Amicus:

Did I fail to mention that your original post was pure bullshit? Just checking. From one patriot to another......I LOVE that you KKK types have to see a mixed race guy when you see the President of the United States.......Live wit' it

 

[sr71plt]

Your 'Newsweek' piece was referred to on the news tonight, as a 'failing weekly news magazine, losing subscribers, losing advertisers, firing reporters and editors,

What mainstream print media vehicle doesn't that apply to at the moment?

You must have been born on the wrong side of the bed. Such a yutz.

 

[DesertPirate]

This nation was not founded as a "Christian nation."

Deal.

Go back and read the Declaration of Independance.
Might want to check the Bill of Rights to.

Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion.
It means that Govt. can't interfere which invalidates every ordinance banning a Nativity Scene since it's none of the Govts business.

 

[Guest]

Go back and read the Declaration of Independance.
Might want to check the Bill of Rights to.

Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion.
It means that Govt. can't interfere which invalidates every ordinance banning a Nativity Scene since it's none of the Govts business.

The Text:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Opposition to the ratification of the Constitution was, in part, based on the Constitution's lack of adequate guarantees for civil liberties. In order to provide such guarantees, the First Amendment, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, was submitted to the states for ratification on September 25, 1789 and adopted on December 15, 1791.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, under the incorporation doctrine, certain selected provisions were applied to states. It was not, however, until the middle and later years of the twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by state governments. For example, in the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion".

 

[cloudy]

Go back and read the Declaration of Independance.
Might want to check the Bill of Rights to.

Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion.
It means that Govt. can't interfere which invalidates every ordinance banning a Nativity Scene since it's none of the Govts business.

Most of the founding fathers were deists, not Christians. You go back and check.

 

[DesertPirate]

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. irreligion".

Every decision handed down since the one Judge created "separation of Church and State" in 1947 promotes non-religion over religion in violation of that.

 

[cloudy]

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another

Game, set and match.

Ergo, the U.S. is not a Christian nation.

 

[amicus]

It will be interesting to see how the 200 million Americans who always thought they lived in a Christian nation, take the news.

One indicator may be a week from now, on April 15th, where previously scheduled demonstrations concerning Income Taxes will be held. Perhaps an outpouring will spill over into the religious controversy started by the new President.

He done stepped in doodoo...heh(say that out loud, it sings!)

ami

 

[Guest]

Every decision handed down since the one Judge created "separation of Church and State" in 1947 promotes non-religion over religion in violation of that.

Nope.

Supreme Court since 1947

The phrase "separation of church and state" became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools. While the ruling upheld the state law allowing taxpayer funding of transportation to religious schools as constitutional, Everson was also the first case to hold the Establishment Clause applicable to the state legislatures as well as Congress, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

In 1962, the Supreme Court extended this analysis to the issue of prayer and religious readings in public schools. In Engel v. Vitale 370 U.S. 421 (1962), the Court determined it unconstitutional by a vote of 6-1 for state officials to compose an official school prayer and require its recitation in public schools, even when it is non-denominational and students may excuse themselves from participation. As such, any teacher, faculty, or student can pray in school, in accordance with their own religion. However, they may not lead such prayers in class, or in other "official" school settings such as assemblies or programs, including even "non-sectarian" teacher-led prayers, e.g. "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country," which was part of the prayer required by the New York State Board of Regents prior to the Court's decision. As the Court stated:

The petitioners contend, among other things, that the state laws requiring or permitting use of the Regents' prayer must be struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause because that prayer was composed by governmental officials as a part of a governmental program to further religious beliefs. For this reason, petitioners argue, the State's use of the Regents' prayer in its public school system breaches the constitutional wall of separation between Church and State. We agree with that contention, since we think that the constitutional prohibition against laws respecting an establishment of religion must at least mean that, in this country, it is no part of the business of government to compose official prayers for any group of the American people to recite as a part of a religious program carried on by government.

The court noted that it "is a matter of history that this very practice of establishing governmentally composed prayers for religious services was one of the reasons which caused many of our early colonists to leave England and seek religious freedom in America."

Yep.

 

[sr71plt]

It will be interesting to see how the 200 million Americans who always thought they lived in a Christian nation, take the news.

One indicator may be a week from now, on April 15th, where previously scheduled demonstrations concerning Income Taxes will be held. Perhaps an outpouring will spill over into the religious controversy started by the new President.

He done stepped in doodoo...heh(say that out loud, it sings!)

ami

I can wait--and you're going to have to.

 

[amicus]

A good point and taken as such...however....

As a reporter for a small North Carolina weekly newspaper, I observed a high school teacher/coach, lead a girl's softball team in prayer before each game.

The editor of the newspaper said to me, "Don't even think about it...."

He knew my philosophy and my reportorial style.

That is to say....well, hell, figure it out for yourself...


amicus...