Obama Kicks Hillary's Ass

[sr71plt]

I believe I checked fine. The things on the list given to me are done by my state, not the Federal government. Taxes paid to my state I haven't any problems with, income tax to the Federal government I do. I think that was reasonably clear, if not then there's the clarification.


The services between my house and office don't require a tax on my income paid to the Federal Government.


This part is just kinda rude. There really isn't a need to personally belittle anyone, here--certainly not to the tune of "if you can wrap your thoughts around this concept in a realistic way". Unnecessary. Is it intentional or are you not aware that you're doing this?


"Someone's" going to take care of me? Who is that? And, just because the comments aren't to your preference of how I should think, does not make them "stupid". What about my comments is "stupid"? I'm perfectly willing to address what you think constitutes stupidity.

lol. I'm sure you meekly pay your taxes like everyone else and are just a big mouth wishful thinker on an Internet chat board. If you're skipping any, though, I do hope the feds catch you and throw your ass in jail. I don't mind paying my taxes--and understand pretty well what a savings it is for me to receive a whole range of services this way--but I see no reason to cover for the dumb deadbeats of the world too. I pay at a whole lot higher rate than most.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

lol. I'm sure you meekly pay your taxes like everyone else and are just a big mouth wishful thinker on an Internet chat board.

Of course I pay my taxes. That's the law. However, that has no bearing on whether I advocate the tax, itself, nor does it mean I cannot vote for people who share my views. One of the reasons I supported Ron Paul, and several other politicians over the years. It is a false dichotomy to suggest that one either advocates by participation or denounces by inaction. Do you not agree?

If you're skipping any, though, I do hope the feds catch you and throw your ass in jail. I don't mind paying my taxes--and understand pretty well what a savings it is for me to receive a whole range of services this way--but I see no reason to cover for the dumb deadbeats of the world too.

It isn't a savings to me. I don't use the vast majority of the services I pay my federal income tax for (including social security, health care, any welfare programs, no entitlements via subsidy, etc.). I'm glad you get some kind of wide- range of governmental kickback or provision--I, personally, do not.

I pay at a whole lot higher rate than most.

I pay the a high rate. That caps reasonably early, though.

You didn't answer any of my previous questions though. Was that by virtue of not being able to answer them or not wanting to? If I need to clarify any of that previous post, I can. I mean, again, what of my comments were "stupid"?

 

[sr71plt]

I don't use the vast majority of the services I pay my federal income tax for (including social security, health care, any welfare programs, no entitlements via subsidy, etc.).

It's times like this I wished the government did have a program to withdraw all vestiges of its services and benrfits from the yahoos who think they are self-suficient and can and/or do cover their own protections and federal-based services. (Would love for you to receive a bill for a HumVee. ) It's probably the only way to stretch their minds around reality. These tend to be the same folks who come running for the government to bail them out when they've been hit by natural disaster or who yammer at the government for letting something like 9/11 happen.

It's like the guy who says he shouldn't have to pay for the schools because he doesn't have any kids--but doesn't give a thought to who is going to change his bed pan when he's 86 and bedridden or keep some semblance of protection for him when he walks to the grocery store when he's 78.

It's a reflection of a totally self-absorbed person unable and unwilling to wrap his mind (or what passes for one) around how entertwined everyone is in a society as complex and sophisticted in its coordinated, delicate balance as ours.

Again, it can only happen because of the economies of scale of a tax system (and even then we can't cover all that needs to be done--even in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget--sometimes, at least of late, especially in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget)

Oh, well. tsk, tsk. Better dumped out here rather than any place where it will have any real effect.

 

[English Lady]

It's times like this I wished the government did have a program to withdraw all vestiges of its services and benrfits from the yahoos who think they are self-suficient and can and/or do cover their own protections and federal-based services. (Would love for you to receive a bill for a HumVee. ) It's probably the only way to stretch their minds around reality. These tend to be the same folks who come running for the government to bail them out when they've been hit by natural disaster or who yammer at the government for letting something like 9/11 happen.

It's like the guy who says he shouldn't have to pay for the schools because he doesn't have any kids--but doesn't give a thought to who is going to change his bed pan when he's 86 and bedridden or keep some semblance of protection for him when he walks to the grocery store when he's 78.

It's a reflection of a totally self-absorbed person unable and unwilling to wrap his mind (or what passes for one) around how entertwined everyone is in a society as complex and sophisticted in its coordinated, delicate balance as ours.

Again, it can only happen because of the economies of scale of a tax system (and even then we can't cover all that needs to be done--even in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget--sometimes, at least of late, especially in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget)

Oh, well. tsk, tsk. Better dumped out here rather than any place where it will have any real effect.

I tihnk you're jumping to a halluvalot of conclusions without any sane basis at all.

Joe says he'd PREFER not to pay taxes and suddenly he's a lazy, deadbeat who lives off the scoial and doesn't pay his taxes?

Where does prefering not to pay taxes mean all that?

Oh, and I don't believe he's talking about all tax, either. I think (though i may be reading him wrong, if so, apologies) that he'd happily pay state tax as the state is who supplies him with all the services mentioned -I think that's what he's driving at.

And yes folks, this is EL jumping in where she really doesn't understand much to defend Joe, just to clarify that for you. Joe can tell me off for it later!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Can you imagine if the u.s. came up with an alt fuel source? just like the u.s. moved from whale oil to petro...or like the rail system went from coal to oil. can you imagine if we dind't purchase any oil from the middle east or chavez, what would happen to the middle east and Ven.?

Right.

John D. Rockefeller destroyed the American whaling industry when he created Standard Oil. He destroyed the barrel industry when he created steel tanks to ship oil in. The oil fields and refineries were an ecological disaster before he bought all of them and closed most of them. And he destroyed the livery and farrier industry when he invented gasoline.

People dont know that most of Eastern America was treeless in 1870. They dont know that horseshit filled every road and stream. Whale oil cost 95 cents a gallon; Rockefeller's kerosene cost 5 cents a gallon; his gasoline was distillation waste, and even cheaper. He ended hookworm disease in the South. He built a college for blacks, and women, and University of Chicago.

You cant do any of this today because industries are politically connected and immune from extinction. If I invent an appliance that makes car fuel for a nickle a gallon, the government will bury me in redtape and attach 3 dollars in taxes to the price of my fuel.

 

[R. Richard]

No one wants to pay for the federal government. Given some of the crap they spend money on, can see why.

However, when Katrina hits, suddenly people want the federal government to come and rescue them. The state of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans did very little to help pople. Carload after carload of local scumbags drove off, throwing their badges out their car windows. The main help came from the federal government. No taxes, no help.

The military that is already in place? They have to be paid and supplied. That costs money, tax money.

The infrastucture that is already in place, that needs to be maintained. The maintnance costs money, tax money.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that the government houses, feeds and medicals at no cost to the prisoners. That cost money, tax money.

If you don't like paing taxes [I don't,] then you need an alternate source of income. The most obvious source is cattle futures. Just get Hillary to tell you how to make $100,000 on an investment of $1,000 and we can finance the whole federal government without taxes.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RICHARD

Resources are finite, demands are infinite.

We demand protection from every risk and folly. But the resouces dont exist to insure everything.

If a hurricane comes into Tampa Bay I'm confident the Federal Government and the State of Florida will fail. That is, there isnt enough money in the Treasury to fix the resulting damage or compensate lost business, taxes, and income.

 

[R. Richard]

If a hurricane comes into Tampa Bay I'm confident the Federal Government and the State of Florida will fail. That is, there isnt enough money in the Treasury to fix the resulting damage or compensate lost business, taxes, and income.

It is impossible to fix everything, as you point out. However, it is possible to provide emergency transportation, food and some sort of lodging.

You may recall the story of the guy who 'borrowed' a school bus and got mabe 40 people out of the Katrina disaster. That is the kind of thing a motivated individual can do. However, you do need to have a 'landing spot' for the hero driver. The feds can provide a landing spot. No one else can.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

It's times like this I wished the government did have a program to withdraw all vestiges of its services and benrfits from the yahoos who think they are self-suficient and can and/or do cover their own protections and federal-based services. (Would love for you to receive a bill for a HumVee. ) It's probably the only way to stretch their minds around reality. These tend to be the same folks who come running for the government to bail them out when they've been hit by natural disaster or who yammer at the government for letting something like 9/11 happen.

That has nothing to do with any point that I made. If it does, I'm entirely willing to entertain an explanation link any substanitive point I made (or question asked) to this series of assertions. Past that, what is there to say about it? I'm not one of the folks that go running to the government, nor are the government's Humvee's necessary (the military's might be, but that doesn't have to be paid for with an income tax at the federal level). So, it doesn't appear that you're actually addressing anything I've said.

It's like the guy who says he shouldn't have to pay for the schools because he doesn't have any kids--but doesn't give a thought to who is going to change his bed pan when he's 86 and bedridden or keep some semblance of protection for him when he walks to the grocery store when he's 78.

If I pay my state taxes (which I have no problems with), my state can fund education. My bedpan at 86 will be changed by the person I pay to change it. The police are paid for from my state taxes and fees.

How is this relevant to a discussion on federal income tax? Or did you not understand that was what was being talked about. I did point it out earlier as clearly as I could.

It's a reflection of a totally self-absorbed person unable and unwilling to wrap his mind (or what passes for one) around how entertwined everyone is in a society as complex and sophisticted in its coordinated, delicate balance as ours.

Intertwined is fine. But how is that an argument for the federal income tax? I'm intertwined with my family and community, but the federal government being paid by me isn't nearly as responsible for that as my city and county. If you mean that my life in intertwined with lives in, say, New York--then that's fine... but that's not a justification for a federal income tax any more than "we're all linked in complicated ways" is a justification for why a doctor should do someone's accounting. How are we intertwined such that a federal income tax is necessary?

Again, it can only happen because of the economies of scale of a tax system (and even then we can't cover all that needs to be done--even in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget--sometimes, at least of late, especially in a conservative administration's "must-do" budget)

We got along fine without a federal income tax, once. Why is that not feasible now (aside from "because the world is different" musings, if the world is different specifically such that it isn't feasible, then how)?

You seem to not want to answer the questions I've been asking, yet quoting me and responding with long-winded rhetoric about no point or assertion I have actually made. Are you not aware that you're putting my posts in quotes before your posts? Because, it is there. If you're not responding to me, you shouldn't quote me. It makes it confusing for people.

Past that, I still wonder what assertion or point I have made qualifies as "Stupid". You seemed quite sure of yourself on that accusation, and I still haven't had an answer. Do you not have one or do you not want to give it?

 

[American6Idiot9]

i believe Obama will be a good president but i don't think he is ready to be president

 

[R. Richard]

We got along fine without a federal income tax, once. Why is that not feasible now (aside from "because the world is different" musings, if the world is different specifically such that it isn't feasible, then how)?

There was a federal income tax during the Civil War. The tax was to pay for the civil war.

There was an income tax during the 1890s. A court ruling stopped that.

Then, in 1913, the sixteenth Amendment passed.

By 1913, the automobile had begun to establish itself. Also, the light truck had begun to establish itself. The automobile and the truck required roads. The roads could not really be built by towns, the roads had to run between towns. The roads could not really be built even by states, the roads had to run between states. Eventually the federal government began to involve itself in the building of roads. Roads cost money.

By late 1912, the federal government had begun to regulate radio [you know, like television without the screen.] The regulation of radio cost money.

The Interstate Commerce Commission was created in 1887. By the early 1900s, the ICC was fighting the influence of the railroads. The attempts to regulate the rail roads cost money.

As the US moved from an isolated, agrarian society to an interconnected industrial society, it was deemed necessary to have government control over things that had not previously existed. Government control costs money. Tax money.

Once Congress had some money to spend, they wanted more money to spend. If you don't pay your federal income tax, where will Hillary get the $1 millon to fund a Woodstock Museum?