Obama Healthcare "Dead on Arrival" in Senate

[amicus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...reform-bill-dead-on-arrival-at-US-Senate.html

Barack Obama health care reform bill 'dead on arrival' at US Senate
President Barack Obama is facing a tough battle to steer health care reform through the US Senate after his bill was declared 'dead on arrival' at the upper house.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/08/ftn/main5576519.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

He also admitted that if it were to come down to it, he would join his independent colleague Senator Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., in filibustering a bill including the so-called public option should it come to the Senate floor.

"The House bill is a non-starter in the Senate," he added. "I just think the construct out of the House and what exists in the Senate is not going to pass, and I hope and pray it doesn't because it would be a disaster for the economy and health care," Graham concluded.

Graham believed a public option would "destroy" private health care, saying that insurance companies could not compete against the lower premiums of a government-backed plan. "It will be a death blow to private choice," he said.

~~~

Listening to Democrat advocates of the Bill, they predict a 'watered down' version will pass the Senate, then go to Conference between House & Senate, where all the objectionable planks will be re-added.

The Obama Health Plan is called the largest piece of legislation to ever be before Congress.

?

Amicus

 

[Huckleman2000]

If you're so confident in the 'free market', why do you post articles about how the so-called 'government-run' insurance plan will push private insurance companies out of business? Why are you against healthy competition in the insurance marketplace?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

If you're so confident in the 'free market', why do you post articles about how the so-called 'government-run' insurance plan will push private insurance companies out of business? Why are you against healthy competition in the insurance marketplace?

A company can not compete against another company that can and doesn't have to make a profit. The government option is not a competing company, it will become a bloated entanglement that never has to show a profit and will need a influx of taxpayer money to stay in business.

The market isn't so free when government is the competition as the government once the bureaucrats are in place there will be no shutting it down and the taxpayers will foot the bill to keep it in business. Real companies cannot operate at a deficit for very long. If they do they either file for bankruptcy or those leading are replaced by the stockholders.

Even if the stockholders change management in the government run POS the bureaucracy remains. ie. Social Security, Medicade, medicare, welfare. All still in place draining the life's blood of America.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You can support your local insurance company, Zeb, by paying them for your insurance. Nothing stopping you.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You can support your local insurance company, Zeb, by paying them for your insurance. Nothing stopping you.

Oh and you don't think you'll pay for government insurance? I hope the trip to fantasyland is a pleasant one.

You'll pay and pay and pay and pay and get nothing out of the mess that might be produced by a bunch of people who don't give a rats ass about you or anyone else.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh and you don't think you'll pay for government insurance? I hope the trip to fantasyland is a pleasant one.

You'll pay and pay and pay and pay and get nothing out of the mess that might be produced by a bunch of people who don't give a rats ass about you or anyone else.

You've just described the current state of health insurance.

 

[amicus]

If you're so confident in the 'free market', why do you post articles about how the so-called 'government-run' insurance plan will push private insurance companies out of business? Why are you against healthy competition in the insurance marketplace?[/QUOTE]

~~~

It is not merely 'confidence', Huck, it is an absolute knowledge concerning the nature of man that postulates only a 'free market', can satisfy the material needs of the individual, but preserve the integrity of his individuality and meet the greater needs of his society.

I am amused at those who insist that the evil and dark side of man, his avarice and greed, his, 'egotistical self interest', must be controlled by outside forces. My usual ploy is to ask those who advocate such controls, to 'speak for themselves', as their inner reflection is wrongly imposed upon the whole of mankind.

If you see the world through your eyes and mirror the evil in your soul, please have the courtesy to keep it to yourself.

Amicus

 

[Stella_Omega]

"absolute knowledge" :

Oh. Ami. You poor, sorry, scared, little rat's ass.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You've just described the current state of health insurance.

Then not much will change for our $850 Billion except that we'll have that extra $850 billion to pay for also.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Then not much will change for our $850 Billion except that we'll have that extra $850 billion to pay for also.

Just go ahead and pay for your private heath insurance, and don't worry about the rest of us who will be forced to settle for the less expensive, equally effective, public version.

It's very kind of you to try so hard to save us from our needs-- but so very misguided. You would have to have an answer for our needs, and you don't.

So we are taking what we need.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Zeb,
You wuz bitchin' on another thread that Obama was to blame for you losin' yer job.....did you get to keep yer health insurance? I hope so for you and your family's sake...health care shouldn't be tied to employment or the lack thereof.....
Having to decide whether to take a sick kid to the doctor/ER or not just because it costs a $100+ bucks to visit is not a decision that any parent wants to make - especially if they are underemployed or unemployed - too often the case these days......I have very good health care via my SO' s company but recently had to take her to the Emergency Room of a local hospital and saw firsthand the primary delivery system for many so folks....a young mother was trying to verify coverage while her child whimpered and held its ear (she'd been recently laid off and the company cancelled her policy).....my woman was seen right away because we had the magic-get-out-of-jail-free-health-coverage, but my heart went out to that young girl trying to get her kid looked at.....

But, according to some asshats, she doesn't deserve it because she lost her job and her rights to humanity with it......it would diminish her as an individual if she could take her kid to the doctor....that's exactly what some of you are saying....

Sleep well, pitiful twits......................'absolute knowledge' indeed......

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Just go ahead and pay for your private heath insurance, and don't worry about the rest of us who will be forced to settle for the less expensive, equally effective, public version.

It's very kind of you to try so hard to save us from our needs-- but so very misguided. You would have to have an answer for our needs, and you don't.

So we are taking what we need.

and you believe those idiots in Washington do? LOL And you call me misguided. LOL

 

[Stella_Omega]

and you believe those idiots in Washington do? LOL And you call me misguided. LOL

Not any more or less than you believe the corporation LOL that takes your money and tells you you have health coverage. LOL

 

[elfin_odalisque]

There is a small point here that the buccaneers on either side ignore.

In most of Europe - except the UK, which is Stalinist - medical provision is a bit like normal US politics. There is a triumvirate between the providers, the MUTUAL non-profit insurance companies, the medical facilities and the federal overview. The current US proposals do not promote a sensible balance between the competing interests.

 

[TE999]

What most people don't realize,or choose to overlook, is that trading the current evil, uncaring health care system for a bloated governmental one will gain them exactly nothing except a ginormous, multi-generational tax bill. You think insurance companies are indifferent to peoples plight? Just wait until the government gets ahold of you. Ever dealt with the IRS? The DMV? The VA? That's just a taste of what awaits.

"Oh, but I won't have to pay for my medical care, those no-good rich people will." Grab the reins, cowboy. The rich will find ways to defer their burden. No one likes their hard earned money extorted from them. Let's not forget who provides employment. I never worked for a poor man.

There will be rationing, triaging, enforced health programs such as stopping smoking or losing weight, your family doctor will retire or become a plumber, there'll be population culling at both ends of life...unborn children and the aged and infirm...soon the middle class will resent supporting the health care for the indigent and illegal immigrants and there won't be a damn thing they can do about it.

I wonder how many people will like being forced into paying for health insurance they don't want or need and being fined if they don't? How about their employers? I'm sure all the foreign companies who built factories here to escape this cradle to grave nanny state, high taxes crap in their own countries will like it.

Once the government controls health care and 'every things equal' who are you going to bitch at when everything isn't perfect or something goes wrong? Your Congressman or Senator? Hah! We'll all be second class citizens together. We'll be the Proletariat. But we'll be equal...except for the elected officials and government employees. They're special. They work so hard. They manage our lives for us. Can you say Politburo?

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Not any more or less than you believe the corporation LOL that takes your money and tells you you have health coverage. LOL

I'll tell you what, I believe the "evil" insurance company will take better care of me than any government bureaucrat will that's for damn sure. True there have been some atrocities in the healthcare industry but, don't expect the government to cure those because there are atrocities in Medicare/Medicade too. Tit for tat.

But I will go with a private "evil" insurance company over stupid government bureaucrats any day.

 

[Stella_Omega]

But I will go with a private "evil" insurance company over stupid government bureaucrats any day.

And you have that choice, you lucky man!

 

[Dragonlipz]

What most people don't realize,or choose to overlook, is that trading the current evil, uncaring health care system for a bloated governmental one will gain them exactly nothing except a ginormous, multi-generational tax bill. You think insurance companies are indifferent to peoples plight? Just wait until the government gets ahold of you. Ever dealt with the IRS? The DMV? The VA? That's just a taste of what awaits.

"Oh, but I won't have to pay for my medical care, those no-good rich people will." Grab the reins, cowboy. The rich will find ways to defer their burden. No one likes their hard earned money extorted from them. Let's not forget who provides employment. I never worked for a poor man.

There will be rationing, triaging, enforced health programs such as stopping smoking or losing weight, your family doctor will retire or become a plumber, there'll be population culling at both ends of life...unborn children and the aged and infirm...soon the middle class will resent supporting the health care for the indigent and illegal immigrants and there won't be a damn thing they can do about it.

I wonder how many people will like being forced into paying for health insurance they don't want or need and being fined if they don't? How about their employers? I'm sure all the foreign companies who built factories here to escape this cradle to grave nanny state, high taxes crap in their own countries will like it.

Once the government controls health care and 'every things equal' who are you going to bitch at when everything isn't perfect or something goes wrong? Your Congressman or Senator? Hah! We'll all be second class citizens together. We'll be the Proletariat. But we'll be equal...except for the elected officials and government employees. They're special. They work so hard. They manage our lives for us. Can you say Politburo?

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Gosh, you're such an optimist.......

 

[Dragonlipz]

I'll tell you what, I believe the "evil" insurance company will take better care of me than any government bureaucrat will that's for damn sure. True there have been some atrocities in the healthcare industry but, don't expect the government to cure those because there are atrocities in Medicare/Medicade too. Tit for tat.

But I will go with a private "evil" insurance company over stupid government bureaucrats any day.

Sad, sad, and sadder......

 

[Epmd607]

How many bills go from one house to the other, don't get changed, get voted on and passed? Probably close to 0%. The senate and house always have to tag on some bullshit, there's really no reason for two houses of congress. This medical bill is almost 90% nonsense. They aren't going to give the majority of the population what they want: government lead health care reform. Yes, look at the polls, the majority want government lead health care reform because the market is flawed. Just like the majority wants government lead reform in equities, commodities, credit markets because that's obviously fatally flawed. Moody's and S&P should rate health care providers too and get paid by those same providers for the rating.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Its the nature of the world that the rich get richer and the poor make it possible by their irresponsible and indolent appetites. The rich control the government and the insurance companies and the hospitals, so there's no way that any plan will serve the best interests of the poor.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And you have that choice, you lucky man!

Oh, another thing...you realize that you start paying for this "healthcare reform" once it's passed but, you don't get the benefits until 2013!

Not so lucky! Unemployed now so only option I have his COBRA at $940 a month which without a salary of some kind I can't afford. So in a little bit I too will be uninsured.

 

[TE999]

Gosh, you're such an optimist.......

I'm a realist.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Oh, another thing...you realize that you start paying for this "healthcare reform" once it's passed but, you don't get the benefits until 2013!

Not so lucky! Unemployed now so only option I have his COBRA at $940 a month which without a salary of some kind I can't afford. So in a little bit I too will be uninsured.

Whoa, wait a minute - the AARA act allows you to get COBRA much cheaper for nine months! Check it out:

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) provides for premium reductions and additional election opportunities for health benefits under the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, commonly called COBRA. Eligible individuals pay only 35 percent of their COBRA premiums and the remaining 65 percent is reimbursed to the coverage provider through a tax credit. The premium reduction applies to periods of health coverage beginning on or after February 17, 2009 and lasts for up to nine months for those eligible for COBRA during the period beginning September 1, 2008 and ending December 31, 2009 due to an involuntary termination of employment that occurred during that period. The TAA Health Coverage Improvement Act of 2009, enacted as part of ARRA, also made changes with regard to COBRA continuation coverage.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Whoa, wait a minute - the AARA act allows you to get COBRA much cheaper for nine months! Check it out:

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) provides for premium reductions and additional election opportunities for health benefits under the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, commonly called COBRA. Eligible individuals pay only 35 percent of their COBRA premiums and the remaining 65 percent is reimbursed to the coverage provider through a tax credit. The premium reduction applies to periods of health coverage beginning on or after February 17, 2009 and lasts for up to nine months for those eligible for COBRA during the period beginning September 1, 2008 and ending December 31, 2009 due to an involuntary termination of employment that occurred during that period. The TAA Health Coverage Improvement Act of 2009, enacted as part of ARRA, also made changes with regard to COBRA continuation coverage.

This is supposed to be explained to all departing employees who will lose their coverage at the end of the 30 day or 60 day grace period.....Unfortunately, it's not properly explained or misunderstood in most cases - in my experience...
I had to personally lay off 30 odd folks back in the nineties.....some parts of process were delegated and mishandled (of course, laying folks off wasn't an everyday part of the HR skillset)so I had to intercede after the first few exit interviews and explain the whole deal to my workers.....I resigned after the last one.....and never looked back.....Even today when I take on a position in project management, I always tell the senior management upfront that I'm not a layoff monkey....
Good Luck to ya Zeb...I hope ya find something real soon.....