NY exhibit unveils women's lives in ancient Greece - yahoo

AllardChardon

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NY exhibit unveils women's lives in ancient Greece
By VERENA DOBNIK, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK – A woman's place has never been just in the home — not even in ancient Greece.

The proof is in an exhibit titled "Worshiping Women: Ritual and Reality in Classical Athens" — a collection of artifacts that correct the cliched idea of Athenian women as passive, homebound nurturers of men and children.

In the display covering Greek life, art and religion, women play important, vibrant roles, as do their goddesses — from lover to priestess to political peacemaker to protagonist of public festivals.

"Today's woman has more in common with the woman of ancient Athens than one imagines," said curator Stella Chryssoulaki. She pointed to a vase showing a group of women who escaped city life, getting together in the countryside for a three-day festival honoring their beloved god Dionysius. They talked and shared lots of wine, leaving their husbands behind.

Contrary to the popular perception of the Athenian female rituals as wild orgies, "there was no sex."

It was a religious rite, but also "a way to get out of the house and talk and exchange feelings," Chryssoulaki said. "It was kind of like group therapy — and then they went home relaxed and ready for the stresses of daily life."

Resentful husbands gave these gatherings a bad name, but actually Dionysius "was a gentle god, both somewhat masculine and feminine," she said.

The 155 artifacts illuminated in cases and on pedestals in the Manhattan exhibit are mostly from Greece, with contributions from the Vatican, Russia's Hermitage Museum, New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art and other top art sources in Italy and Germany.

Just steps from Fifth Avenue, "Worshiping Women" is located in the Onassis Cultural Center in the basement of a modern Manhattan skyscraper, Olympic Tower, that on a higher floor houses the American offices of the Alexander S. Onassis Public Benefit Foundation. It's named after the son of the late Greek shipping magnate Aristotle Onassis, who was married to Jacqueline Kennedy; his son and heir, Alexander, had died young in a plane crash.

The center's mission is to promote Hellenic culture, and it sponsors exhibitions in the underground gallery such as "Worshiping Women," which opened Dec. 10 and runs through May 9. The show was conceived by Nikolaos Kaltsas, director of the National Archaeological Museum of Greece in Athens, and Alan Shapiro, professor of archaeology at Johns Hopkins University.

While women in Athens couldn't vote and were told whom to marry, the exhibit is packed with objects that attest to their vital roles in everything from food and sex to birth and death.

Women were part of both politics and religion, which in those days overlapped.

A large earthen vessel depicts a scene from Homer's "Iliad" in which a Trojan priestess receives Greek warriors who had come to recover Helen from Troy. "The priestess secures the peace," said the curator.

A key depicted on another vase was kept only by a woman who opened the door to the treasures in the temple of the priestesses.

A small bronze statuette of Athena shows her as armed and dangerous, leading Athens' warriors against Troy. And on a black vase, she's a thinker, etching words onto the waxen surface of a "laptop" notebook with a sharp wooden stick that served as a writing tool.

A tiny vase to be filled with wine for ritual tastings could be carried by a girl.

"Women in Athens, were they invisible?" asked Chryssoulaki. "No!"

Greek myths, with all their blood and guts, are not for the faint of heart — and neither are parts of this exhibit.

Athena, the goddess of wisdom, came from the brain of her father, Zeus. And Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, was born when Uranus was castrated by his son, who pitched his severed genitals into the sea. From the turbulence — "aphros" means sea foam in Greek — arose the erotic Aphrodite. She became both the lover and surrogate mother of the god Adonis, whom she shared with the goddess Persephone.

And we thought modern life was complicated.

But the mythical births of Athena and Aphrodite have real meaning to the modern mind: as a battle of emotion vs. intellect. "Myths were a way to see human life," concluded Chryssoulaki.

In the exhibit, life is also reflected in sculptures and tiny objects like a ritual bowl that a woman who baked bread for a living donated to a temple — representing about 10 percent of her meager income. Her name is noted on the bowl.

"You see, even poor, ordinary women left a mark, they played a role — and they were part of the life of the gods," said Chryssoulaki.

***I have always loved Greek Mythology and decided to share this article with all who have a like mind.
 
The role of Athenian women has been a matter of great controversy for years now, with scholars taking and defending each side. Were they property, were they "persons", the argument will doubtless go on for decades to come . . . but I wish I could see this exhibit!
 
I find it odd that scholars debate this at all. Women are women and shall remain so. Some are warriors, peacemakers, breadmakers or deep thinkers. Most women were also mothers at some point, but not for their entire lives. They must have had other interests and made significant impacts on their communities through their interest. I think Athenian women have gotten a bad rap, thanks to scholars preferring to argue rather than agree.
 
I find it odd that scholars debate this at all. Women are women and shall remain so. Some are warriors, peacemakers, breadmakers or deep thinkers. Most women were also mothers at some point, but not for their entire lives. They must have had other interests and made significant impacts on their communities through their interest. I think Athenian women have gotten a bad rap, thanks to scholars preferring to argue rather than agree.

But don't you understand? The entire point of being a scholar is to overwhelm all disagreement. Therefore they have to argue. :D
 
I thought scholars were supposed to teach others their knowledge, not confuse the issue. But that would "be in a perfect world", which I have not found to exist.

I have a little side note on overwhelm. One of my kids' teacher looked for any opportunity to say this, "Well, in that case, I am just plain whelmed, but not overwhelmed." I love that saying.
 
What I liked best about this article is the following:

"Greek myths, with all their blood and guts, are not for the faint of heart — and neither are parts of this exhibit.

Athena, the goddess of wisdom, came from the brain of her father, Zeus. And Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, was born when Uranus was castrated by his son, who pitched his severed genitals into the sea. From the turbulence — "aphros" means sea foam in Greek — arose the erotic Aphrodite. She became both the lover and surrogate mother of the god Adonis, whom she shared with the goddess Persephone.

But the mythical births of Athena and Aphrodite have real meaning to the modern mind: as a battle of emotion vs. intellect. "Myths were a way to see human life," concluded Chryssoulaki.

My emotions and my intellect have been battling it out for years.
 
What strikes me is that when someone starts a piece with:
a collection of artifacts that correct the cliched idea of Athenian women as passive, homebound nurturers of men and children.
then they're usually starting on moving sand.

If I think of Athens (from my admittedly limited perspective) I think of amazons, goddesses, Aphrodite, and oracles. A matriarchal society where outwardly, it may be the men in charge but who defer reverentially to women as the fount of life.
 
What strikes me is that when someone starts a piece with: then they're usually starting on moving sand.

If I think of Athens (from my admittedly limited perspective) I think of amazons, goddesses, Aphrodite, and oracles. A matriarchal society where outwardly, it may be the men in charge but who defer reverentially to women as the fount of life.

You need more Classical History and less mythic vision. The idea that women were property in Athens is much more the accepted model than the one put forth by the curator. Think Picasso and his terror of women and you get a pretty good Greek for a Spaniard.
 
You need more Classical History and less mythic vision. The idea that women were property in Athens is much more the accepted model than the one put forth by the curator. Think Picasso and his terror of women and you get a pretty good Greek for a Spaniard.

I agree. "women in Athens couldn't vote and were told whom to marry" does jive real well with "amazons."
 
Exactly! Besides, the Amazons were Scythians, up north of the Black Sea. They weren't Greek. That any woman might be so bold and swash-buckling terrified the Athenians and most of the other poleis. However, there was always Sparta . . . where they basically ran the joint while the men constantly trained for battle. Had their own Games, too.
 
So, passive women make more suitable mates than aggressive women? Is that the gist of it? Except for the property issue, why would that be an advantage to procreation?
 
So, passive women make more suitable mates than aggressive women? Is that the gist of it? Except for the property issue, why would that be an advantage to procreation?

No, women were thought to be so sexually insatiable that they had to be kept under stict control, lest their lusts anger the gods and bring down retribution. Honestly! Think of all the myths where women are seduced by gods in the form of animals, Europa and the Bull, for instance. Obviously she fell for the bull because old man Minos was inadequately equipped. Her child was the Minotaur. You want more of them running about?
 
No, women were thought to be so sexually insatiable that they had to be kept under stict control, lest their lusts anger the gods and bring down retribution. Honestly! Think of all the myths where women are seduced by gods in the form of animals, Europa and the Bull, for instance. Obviously she fell for the bull because old man Minos was inadequately equipped. Her child was the Minotaur. You want more of them running about?

Don't forget that the "bull" was actually Zeus. He was fond of taking animal shapes when chasing after mortal women.

When I think of Athens, especially ancient Athens, I think enlightenment, logic, and military genius.

After all, according to Solon's Egyptian friends, it was Athens who repelled Atlantis. But that's a totally different story . . . ;)
 
Ancient Greece was a relatively sophisticated society...women actually had a reasonable amount of freedom compared to other societies of the period...the Roman's were quite similar in attitudes...it was in the Dark Ages that women became vassals and were denied the most rudimentary of freedoms. This attitude persists today in many cultures...overt or covert.
 
Ancient Greece was a relatively sophisticated society...women actually had a reasonable amount of freedom compared to other societies of the period...the Roman's were quite similar in attitudes...it was in the Dark Ages that women became vassals and were denied the most rudimentary of freedoms. This attitude persists today in many cultures...overt or covert.

that's a rather broad statement considering that each polis had it's own culture, government and rules. The "Greece" you get in school is all about Athens and Sparta because they were the biggest and most powerful until the Philip of Macedon came along. Unfortunately, what we are left in the way of surviving writing is either Athenian or Spartan or about them. Makes a balanced viewpoint very difficult.
 
that's a rather broad statement considering that each polis had it's own culture, government and rules. The "Greece" you get in school is all about Athens and Sparta because they were the biggest and most powerful until the Philip of Macedon came along. Unfortunately, what we are left in the way of surviving writing is either Athenian or Spartan or about them. Makes a balanced viewpoint very difficult.

Athens and Sparta were the strongest city-states, so it makes sense their documents would be the most likely to find.

I find that Homer's work provides more than a few clues as to the strength of various capitols and governments of the time. "Greece" was clearly not a unified government, merely a unified (and only loosely) sense of nationalism. Theirs was a culture much like our own: at once proud of warrior tradition and at the same time equally proud of logic and philosophical endeavor.
 
Athens and Sparta were the strongest city-states, so it makes sense their documents would be the most likely to find.

I find that Homer's work provides more than a few clues as to the strength of various capitols and governments of the time. "Greece" was clearly not a unified government, merely a unified (and only loosely) sense of nationalism. Theirs was a culture much like our own: at once proud of warrior tradition and at the same time equally proud of logic and philosophical endeavor.


Get hold of the PBS DVD "The Spartans". The presenter (who is one hawt chick professor) makes a really good case that we derive as much of ourselves from them as we do the more celebrated Athenians. Certainly in the Greek world it was the Spartans that other poleis looked up to considering the Athenians imperialistic, mad and disorganized.
 
Get hold of the PBS DVD "The Spartans". The presenter (who is one hawt chick professor) makes a really good case that we derive as much of ourselves from them as we do the more celebrated Athenians. Certainly in the Greek world it was the Spartans that other poleis looked up to considering the Athenians imperialistic, mad and disorganized.

I've absolutely no doubt our system of government and culture was specifically and purposefully derived from the Greek ideal.

Too many knock the "classical times." Too many are unaware of the advancements the Greeks -- and later, the Romans -- enjoyed regarding plumbing, mechanical engineering, social structure, law, government . . . etc., etc.

In Naples, there are Roman villas built two millennia before in which the pipes still work. I wonder if the same will ever be said for the plumbing in New York City 1900 years from now. :rolleyes:
 
that's a rather broad statement considering that each polis had it's own culture, government and rules. The "Greece" you get in school is all about Athens and Sparta because they were the biggest and most powerful until the Philip of Macedon came along. Unfortunately, what we are left in the way of surviving writing is either Athenian or Spartan or about them. Makes a balanced viewpoint very difficult.

Good point...unfortunately those cities records are the only ones extant. So in a way it's moot what other city-states may or may not have done. Athens produced philosophers...Sparta soldiers...that's pretty much the ball game Greek civilization wise.
 
Good point...unfortunately those cities records are the only ones extant. So in a way it's moot what other city-states may or may not have done. Athens produced philosophers...Sparta soldiers...that's pretty much the ball game Greek civilization wise.

Not exactly . . . Athens was a powerful military hub as well, although you must consider they outsourced to other city-states around them. ;)
 
Good point...unfortunately those cities records are the only ones extant. So in a way it's moot what other city-states may or may not have done. Athens produced philosophers...Sparta soldiers...that's pretty much the ball game Greek civilization wise.

That's certainly the traditional viewpoint as handed down from the Oxbridge scholars who gave us the picture. Athens also produced assorted usurpers, tyrants, genocides, poets, playwrights, and the total run of humankind. Not bad for a city that never had more than 30,000 voting citizens at any given time. But there was materialistic, wealthy Corinth, Alexandria and Syracuse of the scientists. It's much broader culture than our image and while fascinating, very few of us would want to live there. Enforced child sexual abuse, pederasty . . . nah!
 
That's certainly the traditional viewpoint as handed down from the Oxbridge scholars who gave us the picture. Athens also produced assorted usurpers, tyrants, genocides, poets, playwrights, and the total run of humankind. Not bad for a city that never had more than 30,000 voting citizens at any given time. But there was materialistic, wealthy Corinth, Alexandria and Syracuse of the scientists. It's much broader culture than our image and while fascinating, very few of us would want to live there. Enforced child sexual abuse, pederasty . . . nah!

Their views of civilization were both baser and more lofty than ours. Two sets of extremes which could find little common ground.

Some would think they had the first true advanced civilization . . . if only they could have come to terms with their own dichotomies.
 
Not exactly . . . Athens was a powerful military hub as well, although you must consider they outsourced to other city-states around them. ;)

True...conscription for the Grecian army from other city-states was commonly used by Athens to settle debts...or to swell their ranks in case of war
 
True...conscription for the Grecian army from other city-states was commonly used by Athens to settle debts...or to swell their ranks in case of war

The USA does the same . . . encouraging naturalized citizens, immigrants, and those from protected territories to enlist in the military.

Some policies never lose their lustre. ;)
 
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