Note to Self: Get to the Sex

[EroticCupcake]

I'm interested in applying lessons from writing erotica to broader writing.

I set a rule for myself to have a sex scene every 7,000 words (or less). If I were writing something non-erotic, I would look to replicate some version of this rule, because it is helped me find a better story.

I am trying to write a longish story that takes place over a 6 year period where boy and girl are wildly in love, but a combination of circumstances keep them apart (including mistrust.) If they have sex in year 5, how the hell am I going to write this?

My solution was to add a frame story. It opens with MMC being questioned / investigated, and the first question is "where is FMC?" MMC doesn't know, and has some paranoia that maybe she set him up.

Now I can flash back to sex scenes as necessary to deliver on the promise of an erotic story. However, even without the self imposed requirement to find the sex, this is a better story. Better to introduce paranoia ASAP, especially since the specific event that causes it isn't revealed until later.

To me there is a kind of lesson to give the audience a taste of what they want within 7k words, even if that thing isn't sex.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I strongly disagree. Rules like these only lead to formulaic, predictable writing.

In my "Mud & Magic" series (300,000+ words), I've had entire chapters without sex, carried only by character interactions, world building or action sequences. That's 15 to 20,000 words on average and my readers were pretty okay with that because I've treated the sex as both integral to the narrative and payoff, not an obligation to meet expectations or - even worse - some artificial quota.

Granted, I do write sprawling fantasy stuff. Your "rule" might yield tighter setups for a pure stroke story, but I tend to lavish a lot of buildup even on my shorter pieces.

 

[Euphony]

To me there is a kind of lesson to give the audience a taste of what they want within 7k words, even if that thing isn't sex.

There are whole classes/books completely devoted on how to establish hooks to keep your readers reading.

If you are waiting anywhere near 7k words to address their needs (honestly, even if you aren't just peppering throughout) you're probably losing a large chunk of readers.

 

[ElectricBlue]

To me there is a kind of lesson to give the audience a taste of what they want within 7k words, even if that thing isn't sex.

7000 words is a very long time to wait, to give readers a taste of the story. That not slow burn, that's the fire's gone out.

 

[Altissimus]

As pertains to me, I also strongly disagree. Hell, I've written sex scenes that are 7k words long. But I say 'as pertains to me' because it depends on your market. I haven't ever written what most could term a 'stroker', (in fact, my stories seem to be getting longer. - my last stand-alone was 63k words) but I could well imagine this premise fits those sorts of stories, and a great many more besides.

 

[Euphony]

I've written sex scenes that are 7k words long.

I would chafe just from reading a 7k word sex scene, let alone if I reenacted it.

 

[Euphony]

7000 words is a very long time to wait, to give readers a taste of the story. That not slow burn, that's the fire's gone out.

Jack London-esq sex romps never work.

 

[EroticCupcake]

I have a limited data set. I've been releasing stories as chapters. For me, a short chapter is 3.8k words and a long one is 7k words. Every chapter has explicit sexual content. Typically shorter chapters do worse, but that could be a function of lots of factors. 7k with a sex scene seem to do okay.

I'm not trying to claim absolute knowledge, I like the idea of challenging myself to meet the reader's expectations while also writing something good and authentic. If I want to write a 5 year love story, I better get creative in how I tell it. There is no point in whining that no one wants to read "my art."

I think everyone in this thread is correct (so far). I'm not judging anyone except myself.

 

[Euphony]

I think everyone in this thread is correct (so far)

We all have our different mental "tricks" and approaches.

I think many of us mention caution only b/c we've tripped ourselves up before over relying on easy to remember "good practices."

Write what you are compelled to write first and foremost. Not ego, just you naturally crank out better product when you do.

Readers, by and large, aren't authors and mostly have a vague sense of what they want or ask for what they are used to.

If writing to reader spec is the challenge you are motivated by, go for it.

If/when you feel an urge to go another direction, know they aren't always the best judge of even what they want let alone what works best for you particular narrative.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Hard and fast rules can be inflexible, but I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping 'What are readers expecting and what's the schedule for delivering it to them' in mind. An erotic novel with five years from the start to the sex...well you can write five years passing in one sentence or keep a diary for every single day of their lives during their separation.

It does sound like maybe a framing device might be useful in these circumstances. One of my stories has such a framing device because I want to clearly tell my readers - 'don't worry, MC, might be an insufferable prude for the first 10k words, but she's going to become a total freak by the end' (the first 10k words do involve some sexy times...)

 

[dmallord]

Hum. Formula Sex Writing 101.

I'm puzzled now. What happened to the sage advice of writing about what you want, different from what your readership might want?

So every 7,000 3,500 2,XXX words, someone(s) has/have/needs sex. Just a minute while I check ... sh*t, I'm at 9,934 words, and my romance main characters have accidentally touched hands with a lingering look. Guess I'll backtrack and have them f*ck at the beginning of the third page, halfway down page two, or once on each Lit page, or very often and hope the readers understand why two people who barely know each other are humping like camels under the sheets. Of course, I'll try to put something romantic in between – just so the category-of-choice remains valid.

Or is there a category called Just F*cking Sex? Did I miss that one in the category list somewhere?

 

[EroticCupcake]

It does sound like maybe a framing device might be useful in these circumstances. One of my stories has such a framing device because I want to clearly tell my readers - 'don't worry, MC, might be an insufferable prude for the first 10k words, but she's going to become a total freak by the end' (the first 10k words do involve some sexy times...)

This is the spirit of my post.

I'm not surprised or unhappy other people have counter points. My thinking is something like, "When I took the time to consider reader expectations and how to meet them, it made my story better, not worse."

If I map some of the expectations in this thread to writing a novel (which I know is a different format). We're basically saying reader attention is 5-10 pages (without explicit sex as a hook). If you can't deliver that quickly, don't bother.

This is an interesting constraint / observation.

 

[ronde]

I'm interested in applying lessons from writing erotica to broader writing.

I set a rule for myself to have a sex scene every 7,000 words (or less). If I were writing something non-erotic, I would look to replicate some version of this rule, because it is helped me find a better story.

I am trying to write a longish story that takes place over a 6 year period where boy and girl are wildly in love, but a combination of circumstances keep them apart (including mistrust.) If they have sex in year 5, how the hell am I going to write this?

My solution was to add a frame story. It opens with MMC being questioned / investigated, and the first question is "where is FMC?" MMC doesn't know, and has some paranoia that maybe she set him up.

Now I can flash back to sex scenes as necessary to deliver on the promise of an erotic story. However, even without the self imposed requirement to find the sex, this is a better story. Better to introduce paranoia ASAP, especially since the specific event that causes it isn't revealed until later.

To me there is a kind of lesson to give the audience a taste of what they want within 7k words, even if that thing isn't sex.

In my experience, if you haven't "hooked" the reader in the first couple of paragraphs, they probably won't keep on reading. That hook doesn't have to be the promise or hint of sex. It just has to be something that makes a reader wonder what's going to happen so they'll keep reading to find out.

The sex should happen when it seems right for it to happen. If you try to force it into XXXX words into the story, it'll seem just that - forced. Just develop a tentative plot and then let your characters tell you when the sex should happen. If you write them correctly, they will tell you.

 

[AchtungNight]

My concern with this is how much sex is necessary? If you must put in some every 7k words, do you need to balance it with a brief summary of the sex or an incredibly hot long romp? And what about the non sex action? How do you balance your work?

Solution imo is to write your story, making sure the sex is detailed appropriately and fits with your themes.

 

[StillStunned]

This is a site dedicated to sex stories. Sure you can play around with round characters and carefully detailed plots, but that's presumably not what most readers are here for.

 

[Altissimus]

I would chafe just from reading a 7k word sex scene, let alone if I reenacted it.

I suppose it depends partly on one's definition of a 'sex scene'. That's not 7k words of humping. For clarity, it's build up, anticipation, emotional reflection, teasing, conflict, etc. Also, you could try some kinda lotion.

 

[Bamagan]

I'm interested in applying lessons from writing erotica to broader writing.

I set a rule for myself to have a sex scene every 7,000 words (or less). If I were writing something non-erotic, I would look to replicate some version of this rule, because it is helped me find a better story.

I am trying to write a longish story that takes place over a 6 year period where boy and girl are wildly in love, but a combination of circumstances keep them apart (including mistrust.) If they have sex in year 5, how the hell am I going to write this?

My solution was to add a frame story. It opens with MMC being questioned / investigated, and the first question is "where is FMC?" MMC doesn't know, and has some paranoia that maybe she set him up.

Now I can flash back to sex scenes as necessary to deliver on the promise of an erotic story. However, even without the self imposed requirement to find the sex, this is a better story. Better to introduce paranoia ASAP, especially since the specific event that causes it isn't revealed until later.

To me there is a kind of lesson to give the audience a taste of what they want within 7k words, even if that thing isn't sex.

I think I agree with you on principle. If I'm reading a mystery story, I do generally want to be immersed in the mystery sooner rather than later, so some kind of framing device can certainly be helpful in that regard. And if the only mystery turns out to be, "Why did I read this?" I will not likely think kindly of the author.
I do like to get at least a glimpse early on of how an author here is going to deal with sex scenes. There are lots of ways that people like to depict such stuff, from terse and breathless and staccato to slow and languorous to comically overwrought to cloyingly cute or soppy and sentimental. I can deal with any of the above if I'm in the mood and it seems to match the tone of the rest of the story, and the sooner I can figure out where the author is trying to land the better, from my perspective.
But I also tend to give a pass to stuff longer than 10k words or so here, since I'm not keen on bookmarking or leaving tabs open on my browser, so I generally gravitate toward stories or chapters I can expect to finish in one sitting before something else demands my attention. I personally might have already given up on a story if the first page hasn't met the criteria I mentioned... which is something like half the number of words you mentioned. But I'm an outlier in many respects, so there's no reason to think I'm close to a representative or average reader here.

 

[samhasstories]

I do try to build to a pay-off, but I'm not counting words. I trust my instincts - sometimes it just doesn't feel ready yet, and needs to build a little more first. Sometimes it feels ready right out of the gates, and I'm gonna go with that.

Everyone has their process, of course, and no judgment on anyone else's. But personally when you start to talk about rules and wordcounts and formulas - and, honestly, even 'audience,' though of course I know they exist - then I just want to skip the whole thing.

 

[Altissimus]

On most ebook-selling sites these days, you can grab a free '10%' download to try-before-you-buy. I think this is a pretty good measure - if you take the first 10% of your story and read it in isolation, does it make you want to read on? This length is proportionate, obviously, and I think that's important too - folk who click in to a story and see it's 19 pages are either clicking 'back' immediately, or, if they continue, are not expecting the sex to start before the bottom of page one.

 

[SimonDoom]

I remember something a reader once told me, in response to a mom-son incest story. The reader said he came as soon as the son touched his mom's panties. I felt proud as an erotic writer that I could make somebody come before the real sex even started. I don't believe there's any particular formula one must follow about words between sex scenes. There are many ways to titillate and excite the reader short of sex. I wrote an 8 chapter incest story where there was no actual sex until the final chapter, although "sexual" activity kept ratcheting up with each chapter. Most readers seemed to enjoy the buildup. Some got bored and gave up. You cannot please everyone, and you definitely shouldn't try.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

I agree with @Bamagan and more or less what most others are saying except to say I'm more impatient than your average smut enjoyer. Also important to point out it's not the sex that I need to see on the first page but the promise of it (or its smutty equivalent).

I dont care if smuttiness happens in 7k words or 20k words or 50k words but the *promise* of it *must* be the chapeau of the story or you've lost me. Thats not to say it has to be introduced immediately, but it damn well better happen soon. For me ( I emphasize that this is my personal preference as a smut reader), some guidelines that make a good erotic tale are:
1. A delicious promise made quickly
2. A payoff that respects the promise
3. Most important for me - a payoff that is surprising given the promise (in a gratifying way).

I would never use word count as a guideline for story telling. I wouldn't use proportionality either (i.e., must happen within x% of the story). If the promise is delivered quickly and it is delivered in a (gratifyingly) surprising way, then you've made me a wet clam.

 

[Bamagan]

I would never use word count as a guideline for story telling. I wouldn't use proportionality either (i.e., must happen within x% of the story). If the promise is delivered quickly and it is delivered in a (gratifyingly) surprising way, then you've made me a wet clam.

Your essay was very promising right up to the last word, where you lost me. Not your fault, really: shellfish allergy.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

*

Your essay was very promising right up to the last word, where you lost me. Not your fault, really: shellfish allergy.

Then I'm a happy peach

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree that there shouldn't be some self imposed word limit before you get to the sex, or between scenes etc.

But to address one of the forums more arrogant posters: If you can't keep a reader hooked for 7k or more without sex, then find another hobby, or stick to one handed reads, because you can't tell a story.

Most of my material goes 6 lit pages or more, and many don't have have any sex for two-three pages.

Feel free to check my numbers here, I seem to do okay.

Readerships consist of people who like an author's style, so if that's stroke or slow burn or in between it doesn't matter as much as being consistent with it so they know what they're getting, and if they like it they stick around.

Few years back I did a two page stroker for a break and to see what would happen. One of my lower rated I/T pieces and a lot of "I like your longer stories better" comments.

 

[TadOverdon]

I'm interested in applying lessons from writing erotica to broader writing.

I set a rule for myself to have a sex scene every 7,000 words (or less).

Me, within a thousand words.