non-consensual abuse in BDSM?

[posie]

hi i'm new to this board and BDSM as a 'scene' tho not an approach,
reading posts by Cymbidia and others i'm horrified by some of the stories

i'm NOT asking for people to relate their past but is violent/emotional abuse just as common as in any vanilla relationships? i kinda hoped that with the extra understanding + effort that goes into power relationships these things might be less common.

how do you know when what is good for you is giving the other person a kick in the 'wrong' way? is there never a wrong way as long as it's within your own boundaries?

i've had one experience where the edges were blurred. thanks in advance

 

[Netzach]

I think we are as prone to everything good and bad as much as any other kind of subculture. I don't think we're more enlightened about abuse or anything else. I think we are so like everyone else in that we're not like anyone else neceassrily it's just staggering.

So you can be yourself, but don't take leave of your common sense, don't assume that because someone wears leathers he's a brother or she's a sister.

 

[Quint]

I've had experiences that I thought would really turn me on; instead, they left me shaking and disturbed. My partner often enjoys these sorts of scenes a great deal and only feels remorse afterwards, when I'm telling him how blech I feel about the whole thing. We make mistakes too. Fantasizing about an event is far different from experiencing the reality.

What keeps my relationship from abuse is that a.) T truly has my best interest in mind, b.) we talk about when things are good and when they're bad, and c.) we understand each other's nature. I don't blame him for enjoying those scenes that I discover I hate; he's wired sadistic and that's one of the things I love and need about him. Likewise, he doesn't blame me for wussing out (ha) or reacting in unpredictable manners. We accept and we learn and we move on. That's what keeps us from being scary.

Gotta talk. When communication is negligable or nonexistant, abuse is much more likely, intentional or not.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've had experiences that I thought would really turn me on; instead, they left me shaking and disturbed. My partner often enjoys these sorts of scenes a great deal and only feels remorse afterwards, when I'm telling him how blech I feel about the whole thing. We make mistakes too. Fantasizing about an event is far different from experiencing the reality.

What keeps my relationship from abuse is that a.) T truly has my best interest in mind, b.) we talk about when things are good and when they're bad, and c.) we understand each other's nature. I don't blame him for enjoying those scenes that I discover I hate; he's wired sadistic and that's one of the things I love and need about him. Likewise, he doesn't blame me for wussing out (ha) or reacting in unpredictable manners. We accept and we learn and we move on. That's what keeps us from being scary.

Gotta talk. When communication is negligable or nonexistant, abuse is much more likely, intentional or not.

all gold

 

[Quint]

all gold

You know, you keep feeding my ego and it swells up. Then I have to get put back in my place. Hope you're happy.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Hi Posie. The others have given very good answers already so I will be brief. In a nutshell BDSM is all about consent, concent, concent. Therefore non consensual abuse is not BDSM.

There are those of us who only dabble with light bondage & others of us who practice what may seem to you to be an extreme version of pleasure. It's up to each individual to decide the level that suits their desires the best.

The word abuse is applied to anything & everthing these days but it is not what BDSM is about and they should not be confused or lumped together.

 

[rosco rathbone]

You know, you keep feeding my ego and it swells up. Then I have to get put back in my place. Hope you're happy.

That's a natural sadist trip...like dribbling a basketball. What's the fun of slamming something that isn't up on the up-bounce?

 

[FungiUg]

When I started to get into BDSM, I had to face up to the whole thing about abuse. I'm not willing to become an abuser.

So for me, consensuality is always a requirement. I don't play games with the words "stop" and "no". As it happens, knowing that the woman I am playing with desperately WANTS me to use her is a huge part of the thrill for me, so that reinforces the concept of consensuality.

I'm sure there are a large number of abuse horror stories out there. They're not necessarily related to BDSM though -- abuse is still way too prevalent within our societies.

 

[MissTaken]

When those lines get blurred, posie, that is the time to use a safe word to stop or slow down activity.

BDSM and abuse should not be intertwined. They can be, as they can be in a vanilla relationship.

Is there a prevalence in one instance or another? I can't say. I guess it depends on what study you read.

 

[Pure]

Q: What keeps my relationship from abuse is that a.) T truly has my best interest in mind, b.) we talk about when things are good and when they're bad, and c.) we understand each other's nature. I don't blame him for enjoying those scenes that I discover I hate; he's wired sadistic and that's one of the things I love and need about him.

I think these words are well-chosen. "Best interest" is an interesting concept, not easily equated with satisfying wants you may feel'; it has an objective quality. The wants/desires you feel lie at a polar opposite point, being mostly subjective.

Between the extremes of 'best interest' and the 'wants', lie the *needs,* and you've not used that term, a move I like. Possibly because individuals often are thought to know their needs.

As you point out, something can be in someone's interest though they 'hate' it, though their desires/wants do NOT go in that direction at all. For instance, if too drugged up, I'm put in detox, in my 'best interests'; all my desires are NOT to go there; I fight it and even try to escape.

A court decides it's in the child's best interests to be separated from a seriously, habitually, drug addicted mom. The child *hates* that happening, screams and protests. Every fiber wants 'mom,' indeed, certainly if you asked him/her, he would say he *needs* mom.

One way to think of it, is a bit like the Old Testament God. Whom he chastizeth, he loveth. The love has an inscrutable quality, but thought to be 'in the person's interest.' From the side of the human person, the devotion to God is not based on desires, e.g., to live: though He slay me, I will cling to him. Devotion arises out of faithfulness (not to be confused with faith).

If someone knows your 'best interest', they know something at the core. One is on dangerous ground if they are wrong, and on blessed, though sometimes, terrifying ground if they're right.

 

[Quint]

That's a natural sadist trip...like dribbling a basketball. What's the fun of slamming something that isn't up on the up-bounce?

I read this to T. He laughed and laughed.

 

[Evaleastaristev]

hi i'm new to this board and BDSM as a 'scene' tho not an approach,
reading posts by Cymbidia and others i'm horrified by some of the stories

i'm NOT asking for people to relate their past but is violent/emotional abuse just as common as in any vanilla relationships? i kinda hoped that with the extra understanding + effort that goes into power relationships these things might be less common.

how do you know when what is good for you is giving the other person a kick in the 'wrong' way? is there never a wrong way as long as it's within your own boundaries?

i've had one experience where the edges were blurred. thanks in advance

You've heard this already, but I want to reiterate. A D/s realtionship is the same as a vanilla one in most aspects, it's just more violent. But the violence is concentual. That being said, consent is not always gained. A scene can go to a bad place, a bad Dom/me can ignore safewords or take things too far too fast. There is just as much chance of a D/s relationship becoming abusive as any other relationship. It all depends on the people involved.

 

[Slut_loves_pain]

interesting considering

This thread is so amazing considering what happened tonight.

My boyfriend and I do a lot of rape fantasy/BDSM stuff always preorganised and consentual and I had said to him that tonite I wanted to have 'vanilla' (normal) sex and it was alright for a start but then I slapped him just out of fun and called him Sir as a tease because he was being smart with me... To clarify the following I am also the survivor of ongoing sexual abuse and rape by multiple perps. We have a safe word and I didnt use it... I couldnt say it you see I was flashbacking to when I was very young.. I wasnt even there and I couldnt say a damn thing and he didnt even KNOW he thought I was playing with him and he didnt stop...... theres marks all over my neck from his strangling me and he 'forced' oral sex... often this is part of our play but not this time I wanted him to stop but I wasnt even there in my own body to say a damn thing.
He was upstairs crying before and he feels like total shit. This is what happens when a 'scene' goes wrong. He didnt know, I couldnt tell him and because we'd done this a dozen plus times before with no problems I cant exactly blame him for being totally shocked that this happened. I feel like shit a) because of what happened and b) because of the genuinely HORRIBLE place doing what he did took me and He feels like shit because the last thing He ever wants to do is hurt me EVER.
Its a fine line between BDSM and abuse, but the difference is pretty bold and clear. We're doing it because we get off on it and because we care and love each other and any mistake like tonight becomes an issue to be resolved with hugs cuddles coffee and love. An abuser chokes you and shoves his cock down your throat because he hates you you're nothing but a hole to be used and fucked if he is gonna apologise he'll slap ya walk away and plan the next time. Thats a pretty clear difference.
Now back to my Darling to try and make sense of what happened earlier.
Sorry if the above was too graphic for everyone I thought it might just clearly illustrate the point and I dont mind sharing it. Its all good learning.