No Women Allowed?

[A Desert Rose]

I am a golfer. I am also female.

A women’s rights organization — one with a forgettable
name — has gotten its collective, wished-for balls in
an uproar because Augusta National, the
privately-owned Georgia golf course that hosts The
Masters, does not allow women membership.
Hootie Johnson is president of Augusta National, and
he takes guff from no one. Consider: Bill Gates
waited, and waited, until he was finally approved for
membership. Hootie told the women’s rights
organization to take a hike, and when they threatened
to boycott television sponsors of The Masters he
pulled all advertising, telling CBS he would no allow
commercials rather than put those companies at risk.
How many really, really shrill harpies are there out
there, anyway?
Who’s right? A bunch of feminists conveniently
overlooking a number of valid women’s issues (besides,
there are golf country clubs for women only), or some
old belligerent Southerner.

 

[HeavyStick]

It's a private institution. They have the right to select it's members.

Men have fraternities, women have sororities.

There are African-American Colleges.
There are women colleges.

If Augusta was funded with tax payer dollars, they wouldn't have the right to discriminate or be selective in it's member process. They are private, they have that right to approve or deny ANY membership.

If a asian male wanted to enroll in Grambling University, he'd be denied cause he wasn't black. How much media attention would that get?

How about David Duke? What if he wanted to enroll in Grambling U, he would be looked at as a troublemaker and his application would be denied. Lots of media coverage but no one would dare say reverse discrimination about Grambling, would they?

 

[acitore_vuli]

.

 

[Aquila]

I agree with heavystick

The only thing Id like to add however is I think in the long run augusta will break down on this, just because special interest groups can be rabid..

Kind of like hyenas (sp?) they will band together and attack to bring down a larger prey.

I see more than just NOW or some other FemiNazi group getting in on the action for this one.

 

[acitore_vuli]

.

 

[Aquila]

Aquila, as acting VP of the Literotica Neanderthal Club, would you succumb to the pressure and allow a.....ummmm...non-neanderthal to join your club?

Hehe Ill send a PM on to backyard sweaty.. its his idea

 

[A Desert Rose]

I also agree with all of you.

A private club should be able to set it's own policy. If the majority members want it to remain an all-men's golf club, more power to them.

(I almost used the turn feminazi too, lol)

What I find amazing is that more civil libertarians have not jumped in to debate this.

Go figure.... The Civil War thread garners all kinds of responses but something as current and possibly controversial, gets almost no typing time.

Maybe that is a statement that most literotica posters agree with us.
~smiling~

 

[Chuckus]

It's a private institution. They have the right to select it's members.

Men have fraternities, women have sororities.

There are African-American Colleges.
There are women colleges.

If Augusta was funded with tax payer dollars, they wouldn't have the right to discriminate or be selective in it's member process. They are private, they have that right to approve or deny ANY membership.

If a asian male wanted to enroll in Grambling University, he'd be denied cause he wasn't black. How much media attention would that get?

How about David Duke? What if he wanted to enroll in Grambling U, he would be looked at as a troublemaker and his application would be denied. Lots of media coverage but no one would dare say reverse discrimination about Grambling, would they?

I agree with HS. It is a Private Club funded with Private Money. Women are still allowed to go there, however they must be invited and/or with their husbands, SO's or otherwise. The simple fact is they (the Ownership Group) decided along time ago to make it a Men's Only Club. Period.

Get over it and move on.

Women have Women Only clubs.
Men have Men Only Clubs
African Americans have African American ONLY Colleges/Schools

Let me twist this and ask another question. Since there are in fact WOMEN only Colleges and African American only colleges.......would you be/find it offensive to have an Caucasian only College?

VMI and the Citadel were forced to allow women in, because they "wanted the same experience" as the men got (only they don't realize that they will NEVER get that same experience, though there are PLENTY of Women Only Military Academies)....

what would you think of an ALL CAUCASIAN College/School/Golf Club? Or is that too KKK for most or to "discriminated"?

Personally if everyone can have a Segregated club (Women Only, African American Only) but yet there are no Caucasian Only Clubs or Schools?

(Just for the record, I threw this out to y'all for an honest discussion........not to be flamed, though I suppose I'lll get my share of flaming.........)

 

[A Desert Rose]

VMI and the Citadel were forced to allow women in, because they "wanted the same experience" as the men got (only they don't realize that they will NEVER get that same experience, though there are PLENTY of Women Only Military Academies)....

what would you think of an ALL CAUCASIAN College/School/Golf Club? Or is that too KKK for most or to "discriminated"?
B]

I love your questions. I hope it opens more debate.

To address the VMI point you have made: By allowing women in, do you not agree that it has lowered many of the military standards? And would you not agree, that by doing so it has also weakened our military?

 

[Chuckus]

I love your questions. I hope it opens more debate.

To address the VMI point you have made: By allowing women in, do you not agree that it has lowered many of the military standards? And would you not agree, that by doing so it has also weakened our military?

I don't agree that it has "lowered" any military standards (there is a standard for women and one for men, I think?)......that is not the issue at hand IMHO. The issue at hand is the same experience........and since VMI/Citadel are now no longer all Male.....and women have come in, the very experience of VMI/The Citadel is NOT the same. To me, it has nothing to do with military standards or anything else.

I, too, hope it brings up fruitful debate. I honestly don't know what others think of the very subject........not VMI/Citadel but an All Caucasian School.........

 

[Marquis]

If a asian male wanted to enroll in Grambling University, he'd be denied cause he wasn't black.

This is factually incorrect. It is a common misconception that you have to be black to go to a Historically Black College. I know quite a few white people who go to Howard University.

 

[Marquis]

I, too, hope it brings up fruitful debate. I honestly don't know what others think of the very subject........not VMI/Citadel but an All Caucasian School.........

Its an interesting topic, but one that I feel can be answered easily enough. A whites only (there are PLENTY of all white colleges, but that doesnt mean that minorities wouldnt get in if they applied) college would be innappropriate because it would be discriminating purely on the basis of the social construct of race.

African Americans are united by more than the color of their skin, they are united by their shared experience and position in society as well as culture. On the same token, I would totally support an Irish-American exclusive organization or an Italian-American exclusive organization or so forth because they can benefit from being in the company of others who have shared their cultural heritage and unique position in society.

I want to re-emphazise however that as far as I know there are NO BLACK ONLY colleges in the united states.

 

[HeavyStick]

I love your questions. I hope it opens more debate.

To address the VMI point you have made: By allowing women in, do you not agree that it has lowered many of the military standards? And would you not agree, that by doing so it has also weakened our military?

this could very easily be it's own thread

 

[HeavyStick]

This is factually incorrect. It is a common misconception that you have to be black to go to a Historically Black College. I know quite a few white people who go to Howard University.

I'm not saying ALL Black colleges are 100% in their policies, I was posting a hypothetical situation.

I stand by my point that it is a private institution and has the right to be selective in it's membership procedures.

 

[Chuckus]

Its an interesting topic, but one that I feel can be answered easily enough. A whites only (there are PLENTY of all white colleges, but that doesnt mean that minorities wouldnt get in if they applied) college would be innappropriate because it would be discriminating purely on the basis of the social construct of race.

African Americans are united by more than the color of their skin, they are united by their shared experience and position in society as well as culture. On the same token, I would totally support an Irish-American exclusive organization or an Italian-American exclusive organization or so forth because they can benefit from being in the company of others who have shared their cultural heritage and unique position in society.

I want to re-emphazise however that as far as I know there are NO BLACK ONLY colleges in the united states.

Thanks for your .02 cents........I started a thread about this topic with the hopes of fruitful debate.

 

[Marquis]

I stand by my point that it is a private institution and has the right to be selective in it's membership procedures.

I agree to a certain point.

 

[Fly_On_Wall]

I agree that golf
or
Gentelmen Only Ladie's Forbiden

is sexest to not alow women to play
but then I think of how many gentelmen's only clubs that have been destroyed over the years cause of feminists.
the same women that weeks later will make themself a women's only club then fucth again when another men's only club evolves.


yes golf may be wrong about this but I don't stand eather way on it

cause sexisum is a one way street.

 

[Aquila]

I don't agree that it has "lowered" any military standards (there is a standard for women and one for men, I think?)......that is not the issue at hand IMHO. The issue at hand is the same experience........and since VMI/Citadel are now no longer all Male.....and women have come in, the very experience of VMI/The Citadel is NOT the same. To me, it has nothing to do with military standards or anything else.

I, too, hope it brings up fruitful debate. I honestly don't know what others think of the very subject........not VMI/Citadel but an All Caucasian School.........

yes at the moment there is one standard for women and one for men.. which is supported by many feminist as fair..

Personally I would like to see one standard.. Period.

then again I would also like to see the officer corps drawn from the enlisted ranks and not wet behind the ears college students.. nothing like a shiny new butter bar to piss of a group of real soldiers, and get them killed. However The good ones listen to their sergeants and eventually become good leaders, however I still think too large a portion of officers have no business commanding a garbage truck, much less fighting men.

 

[Chuckus]

I agree that golf
or
Gentelmen Only Ladie's Forbiden

is sexest to not alow women to play
but then I think of how many gentelmen's only clubs that have been destroyed over the years cause of feminists.
the same women that weeks later will make themself a women's only club then fucth again when another men's only club evolves.


yes golf may be wrong about this but I don't stand eather way on it

cause sexisum is a one way street.

Women are allowed to PLAY Golf at Augusta, however they CANNOT be members. Period. They must be invited and/or with their husbands if they are NOT invited or do not an invitation.

(Just thought I would clear that up, they CAN play there just can't be members there)

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm not saying ALL Black colleges are 100% in their policies, I was posting a hypothetical situation.

I stand by my point that it is a private institution and has the right to be selective in it's membership procedures.

Amen and amen. Members have the right to determine policy.

 

[Mischka]

The private institution is legally entitled to be as exclusionary as they wish. The "harpies" are also legally entitled to complain about it. Big whoop.

 

[Fly_On_Wall]

Women are allowed to PLAY Golf at Augusta, however they CANNOT be members. Period. They must be invited and/or with their husbands if they are NOT invited or do not an invitation.

(Just thought I would clear that up, they CAN play there just can't be members there)

oh okay I didn't realise that

but there are some places that won't let women on the course.

and the gentelmen only ladies forbin is actualy what golf stands for.

women were not aloud at all to play the game for like a hundred years, i'm not sure exactly how long

 

[ma_guy]

Augusta National is well within their right to deny or allow membership to anyone they choose.

At the same time, NOW is well within their right to wage a protest. They already know they have no legal standing to work with so all they have is public opinion and pressure.

It's up to the rest of the general public to weigh in as they see fit. Either support NOW or support Augusta National. Until those who support Augusta National make their feelings known the "squeaky wheel" will get the oil and advertisers will cave in to NOW. Write to those advertisers and let them know your view (one way or the other..)

 

[Chuckus]

oh okay I didn't realise that

but there are some places that won't let women on the course.

and the gentelmen only ladies forbin is actualy what golf stands for.

women were not aloud at all to play the game for like a hundred years, i'm not sure exactly how long

Sure, I might be wrong but I don't think so. I am 99% sure women can play there, just can't be members there.

 

[Chuckus]

Augusta National is well within their right to deny or allow membership to anyone they choose.

At the same time, NOW is well within their right to wage a protest. They already know they have no legal standing to work with so all they have is public opinion and pressure.

It's up to the rest of the general public to weigh in as they see fit. Either support NOW or support Augusta National. Until those who support Augusta National make their feelings known the "squeaky wheel" will get the oil and advertisers will cave in to NOW. Write to those advertisers and let them know your view (one way or the other..)

Augusta National has my support. Hey it's there club........they don't take any public money (except for endorsements for the Masters, which they have already turned back some of the Sponsors) and it is a Private Club.........they can let in whom they want to.