New writer, dumb question

[LadyVer]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

Don't write in first person. Don't write about your actual experiences.

I have never worried about this, and try to include my own persona in first person stories.

 

[JackLuis]

That is what writing is about. Learn to do it by attempting it.

It's like playing the Ukulele. Reading theory and knowing all the transmutations of chords is no help to actually practicing with your fingers, for many many hours.

If you don't want the characters to speak with your voice,CHANGE the dialogue.

If you don't want the character to do anything you don't like, be disciplined enough to cut it out and replace it.

Here at Lit you don't even have to pay attention to the Grammar Nazis if you don't want to.

 

[MSTarot]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

You have to stop typing all together. Honestly, a part of you will find its way into every story you write. that part of it. How you make it come alive.

Now how to make the characters stand out .. traits work. quirky things. Individual phrases.

"Hey, sport. Want to go skate at the park?"

"Hey son, grab your skateboard. We'll hit the park."

Same question two different way. Those little things across a whole story make the character stand out, even when they are still you.

Best I can do for now, I'm getting really sleepy.

MST

 

[SamScribble]

A trick I learned many years ago - writing for radio and TV - is to write a paragraph or two of the character's dialogue, in the character's voice. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the actual story; you're not going to use it in the story; it's just to give you a reference point for the way in which the character thinks, speaks, and - ultimately - acts. And then be true to your character.

 

[Over_Red]

A trick I learned many years ago - writing for radio and TV - is to write a paragraph or two of the character's dialogue, in the character's voice.

I really like that idea, I think I'm going to start using it as part of my character biographies! I do something similar, but not dialogue specifically.

To jump on your bandwagon, I find that detailed biographies help me establish and flesh out important characters. I use the term biography loosely; often the actual backstory is the shortest part. Things I include are physical description, physical quirks like common gestures or habits, favorite phrases, favorite colors and food, a description of their room, opinion on hygiene, whether they like to plan everything or go with the flow, their personal reaction to a long airport line when they're late for their flight, and how they would answer "what's the meaning of life?"

If you truly know your characters, you can begin to imagine how they think and how they would react - just as you can imagine how family members might think or react. You have to become familiar with them to the point that, if they were sitting on the couch watching TV with you, you know what they would think about what's on the screen. Have you ever had a moment when a friend has done something characteristic, and everyone has agreed "that was so you?" Know your characters that well and they'll write themselves.

 

[lowphat]

You have to become the story teller. It isn't your story, it's their story, you're just telling it. Quit being you, and let your imagination take over. Draw from people you know in real life. Mix traits you understand, and create their back story. Even if you don't use it all, at least in your head the character will have depth, and that shows up in your writing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

This thread should have ended when Ms.Tarot knocked it into the cheap seats.

The way you stop inserting yourself into the story is to simply stop writing. Put away your keyboard and find something else to do. You are who you are and that's going to flavor anything you create. The only way you could hope to fix that would be assembly line writing.

Several people have mentioned 'voice' and if you really were refering to how your characters sound in dialogue rather than how they fundamentally view the world and interact with it then yeah they've given great advice. I tend to pick someone (real or fictional) and make the character sound like them and if necessary give them a quirk or two that really defines how they communicate.

If it's what I thought you were talking about it's probably best not really to try but if you insist you just pick a few things that you do and find a twist. It's not that you need to go full on reverse, just a way of handling it that you normally wouldn't do.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

With major characters, I find it's helpful to write a background for them: parents, childhood, job etc. I don't need to include all of it in the story, but if I know that my character was a Greek migrant boy who changed his name to "R.J. Churchill" to get away from anti-migrant prejudice, that helps me figure out how to write him. He's a bit insecure about his social standing, so he overcompensates by flaunting his wealth with a big house and marble statues in the yard. He speaks very proper English, but if he's drunk or emotional, you might hear some hints that it's not his first language. And so on.

For minor characters, an easy cheat is to pick a RL person or a well-developed fictional character from some other work and take that as a starting point. If you write them long enough they'll probably develop their own voice anyway, but it can be easier if you have somewhere to begin.

On the other hand, some of my characters do have a lot of myself in them. That's not necessarily a bad thing; what I do try to do is use different parts of me for different characters.

 

[Handley_Page]

Do you get Radio Plays or Short stories on your local radio ?
If not, try the BBC: Radio 4.
You may find that listening to them gives a clue.

 

[TxRad]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

You don't, plain and simple. You are the writer. The characters are the characters. To give them their own voice, make them real in your mind. For long stories i use character notes on each main character. Detailed ones. For shorter works, I use the same thing but more condensed unless more is needed.

Characters interact and change over time and circumstance. Take that into consideration as you write your character notes. Where do you want so and so to be at this point or at the end.

Writing is a lot of work, if you do it right.

 

[Hypoxia]

One approach to writing is to choose a setting, some players, and some plot points, then set the players loose and transcribe their speech and deeds. Ah, those players -- make them real in your head. Base them on people you think you know, people you can hear and see. They run around being themselves, talking and farting and shoplifting or whatever. Some always speak formally. Some can barely mumble. They can use their own voices, not yours.

 

[lovecraft68]

For short things I never have this issue, I envision how the character would act then try to capture

For long works-novel length-I think its inevitable we end up 'appearing' in them because we are much more heavily invested in a long work.

But for the record? There are times I feel its a waste here to portray things accurately. On one story I received a bunch of comments about the main characters immaturity, how he couldn't see the obvious and one "he acted like a kid the whole time"

I was writing from the POV of an 18 year old boy

So I took their insults as compliments, but it showed that a lot of readers just don't 'get it' not that that is a reason to not make your best effort, but it is an eye roller

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh, writing is all about making sense of real life, making real life interesting, and making real life entertaining.

I expect LV to re-invent THE WATCH TOWER and populate it with old witches rather than Munchkins, Toto, Dorothy, scarecrows, and wizards.

 

[Laurel]

I'm not a writer, but I read one somewhere who recommended carrying a notepad and pen everywhere (this was back in the olden days before iPhones and such), listening to people talk (either in person around you, on video/TV/Youtube/radio/etc.), and writing down bits of dialogue that sound interesting - either because they're funny, or because they convey a certain type of person (either by their accent or word choice/use of regional slang or colloquialisms), etc. Done diligently, this can be a valuable resource. So they say.

 

[oggbashan]

I would add a few things to think about:

If you actually listen to how people talk, what they actually say wouldn't work in a story.

If they know each other well e.g. a long married couple they use verbal shorthand that means something to them but to no one else.

All people, unless making a formal pre-written speech, hesitate, contract words, use short silences, meaningless words or interjections - Um; you know; I see; etc and interrupt each other.

When writing dialogue I clean it up so it reads better. But if I want to convey embarrassment or shyness I might include a few of the Ums and Ers...

If you have more than two speakers alternating it is very easy to confuse who said what.

Readers tend to skip past "He said"; "She said" even when almost every statement has it. Adding adverbs breaks the flow and can be easily overused - "He said wonderingly"; "She said flirtingly".

Trying to convey an accent and/or a non-native speaker speaking English can easily be overdone. A few hints are enough. Don't try to emulate Kipling, whose Indian Army Soldiers' slang was obtrusive and rightly criticised at the time because no Indian army soldier ever spoke as Kipling wrote.

The above aren't rules. They are things to think about.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I've been mulling this over for a while and haven't seen anything anywhere that addresses this. How does a writer keep from inserting themselves into their stories? I want the characters to have their own voices, not mine.

Thanks for any feedback.

I LOVE this question!

Answer #1: BECOME your character. Immerse yourself in their skin and see the world through their eyes. Here's some of the best writing advice I ever saw for characterizations, "Remember, the villain thinks they are the hero." Does it show in how they act and speak?

Suggestion #1: Try writing a story from a character's POV. Write it in the first person if you'd like. But more importantly, find a voice that feels different than yours and write in character. Don't over think it. Don't worry if you feel foolish or feel as if you're writing a stereotype - just do it. It will loosen up your muse.

I wrote FAWC 1 A Gloryhole Adventure from a female POV and fooled quite a few people before the authors were revealed.

Question #1: Are you really asking "How do I stop sounding like me when I write?" That's a tougher answer. When Stephen King wrote as Richard Bachman he was found out, in part, due to his writing style.

 

[LadyVer]

Wow. I am honored. Such great comments by some great writers and readers. Thank you so much. Will be reading and re-reading. If I hadn't broken my printer, I would print them out.

 

[JKendallDane]

I LOVE this question!

Answer #1: BECOME your character. Immerse yourself in their skin and see the world through their eyes. Here's some of the best writing advice I ever saw for characterizations, "Remember, the villain thinks they are the hero." Does it show in how they act and speak?

Suggestion #1: Try writing a story from a character's POV. Write it in the first person if you'd like. But more importantly, find a voice that feels different than yours and write in character. Don't over think it. Don't worry if you feel foolish or feel as if you're writing a stereotype - just do it. It will loosen up your muse.

I wrote FAWC 1 A Gloryhole Adventure from a female POV and fooled quite a few people before the authors were revealed.

Question #1: Are you really asking "How do I stop sounding like me when I write?" That's a tougher answer. When Stephen King wrote as Richard Bachman he was found out, in part, due to his writing style.

^^ THIS! ^^

Plus consider this:

Even if you do start off with a large part of yourself as the main character, between the Muse and the characters themselves, you end up getting dragged down paths you yourself would have never taken. It's part of the fun of being an author when you cede control of your story to the people in it.

 

[Libratine]

Trying to convey an accent and/or a non-native speaker speaking English can easily be overdone. A few hints are enough. Don't try to emulate Kipling, whose Indian Army Soldiers' slang was obtrusive and rightly criticised at the time because no Indian army soldier ever spoke as Kipling wrote.

One of my earliest stories was a period piece set in the 1930s, in which I tried to emulate the broken English slang of the many different ethnic groups of New York City. It didn't go over very well.

What I have found that often works, especially for recurring characters, is to give them a verbal personality cue, something they often say in conversation. I've personally met people who often end just about every statement they make with "yo," as in, "What's up, yo?" or "Going to the concert or what, yo?" Personally, I find that annoying, but in a written story it does work to add dimension to the character and differentiate their dialogue from others around them. The tactic invariably plays off established stereotypes, though, which might end up insulting some readers. But then, if you were worried about that, you probably wouldn't want to write anyway. I wouldn't.

Catch phrases also work nicely to give character, but they have to be appropriate when inserted into dialogue. You don't want someone casually saying "fiddlesticks" all the time, but dropping it in now and then wouldn't hurt. One of the things I remember from the comic books I used to read as a kid were the various catch-phrases some of the superheroes used; Ben Grimm's "It's Clobberin' Time" and Luke Cage's "Christmas" are the most notable.

Also, quite a few people I know (it seems to be common among the ex-military who work in my company) pepper their casual speech with expletives, adding the F-bomb before practically every noun in a sentence. "Dude, I was going to the fucking store and saw this hot fucking redhead..." etc., etc. This gives a certain impression of the person and I think it translates well in a story.

Just a few observations on my part.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It needn't be a catch phrase so much as a speech pattern. This is one of those rare times when I'm going to honest to god promote my Lit Forum home. The General Board.

I know, I know, bear with me for a second here. There are probably other places here that are just as good or better to use as an example but that's where I live. Pick a topic, ideally a political one and ignore the politics and read.

Most of us have our speech patterns that carry over just fine and I don't mean just the people who are unreadable via poor grammar or spelling (but seeing how people speak terrible English in real life there is really no reason to reject those people out of hand for finding different voices.) but word choice and vocabulary vary greatly from one person to the next. I don't believe that "Having said that" qualifies as a catch phrase but I sure as fuck say it quite a bit. I tend to say "lates" instead of "later" or "good bye", and the answer to how are you is "outstanding." (Because good, nice and pretty are all neutral words. You use them when you both don't actually have anything positive to say but also don't want to upset anybody.)

We over on the GB have a lot of people who post often enough to be studied and also have a "unique" voice. LadyVer spends enough time ther eot know that even if you removed the AVs and Handles you wouldn't mistake Sean for Sean Renaud for Renard Ruse for Ishmael for Ulaven Demorte so on and so forth. You may or may not be able to accurately point out who is who like a child's See n' Speak where the Cow goes Moo and the Pig goes Oink and his Excellency think's your a very pretty mouse if occasionally moody. But you could probably put all the moos in one pile, all the oinks in one pile with only a few goofs. (And most of those would be from very short posts where our various quirks didn't kick in. I also apparently like parenthesis.)

 

[LadyVer]

We over on the GB have a lot of people who post often enough to be studied and also have a "unique" voice. LadyVer spends enough time ther eot know that even if you removed the AVs and Handles you wouldn't mistake Sean for Sean Renaud for Renard Ruse for Ishmael for Ulaven Demorte so on and so forth. You may or may not be able to accurately point out who is who like a child's See n' Speak where the Cow goes Moo and the Pig goes Oink and his Excellency think's your a very pretty mouse if occasionally moody. But you could probably put all the moos in one pile, all the oinks in one pile with only a few goofs. (And most of those would be from very short posts where our various quirks didn't kick in. I also apparently like parenthesis.)

The gb voices are definitely distinctive. (I have quite a few of them igged). I don't spend as much time there as I used to and spend more time reading threads there than commenting. You make a good point, though. Remove the avatars,and I can still tell who is commenting. I could identify you, Sean, Ulaven, zumi, bronze age, Recivida, etc. The same could be said for the AH, though, since the AH has its own distinctive voices.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So if your goal is to have different characters sound differently pick one of us and have them sound like us. Because Hogan and Vetteman might say the exact same thing (meaning wise) but one sounds like a Greek Philosopher and one sounds like chimp with hemorrhoids .

 

[lovecraft68]

This is where role playing comes in handy, doing one as the opposite sex is good practice, especially if the character is not just different in gender, but age and exhibiting behavior you never would.

The GB role plays all the time, its called an alt and the good ones make an effort to sound different.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You shush your mouth! There are no alts on the GB. We are all special snowflakes!