New Idea (Sort Of)

[AsylumSeeker]

I won't lay claim to the idea, a while back I received a random "hello" from someone that was just too damned happy to be alive, but it made my day. If you know or are this person, please make yourself known. If not, a huggss to you anyway!

I find myself working with a GREAT guy that is so upbeat that its infectious, and I feel so much more energized myself. He loves life and leaves me feeling guilty for not being completely happy. But here's the idea. Why not a random "editing"?

It may be unwanted, maybe not, but if you (editors) have extra time, just randomly select a story for whatever reason, edit the story, and send it to the writer. I just did this (okay, admittedly but only by chance, it was less than a Lit page in length, but I didn't know that in advance)

Just an idea.

 

[adetaildiva]

unsolicited?

But here's the idea. Why not a random "editing"?

It may be unwanted, maybe not, but if you (editors) have extra time, just randomly select a story for whatever reason, edit the story, and send it to the writer. I just did this (okay, admittedly but only by chance, it was less than a Lit page in length, but I didn't know that in advance)

AS,

I think you may be on to something here. Can't tell you the number of times I've started reading a story only to find out it desperately needed a second going over before being submitted for posting. It couldn't hurt & the worst they can say is "no, thanks." Thanks for the suggestion! I'll let you know how it works out -- if you here the funeral dirge, don't ask.

 

[LadyCibelle]

AS,

I think you may be on to something here. Can't tell you the number of times I've started reading a story only to find out it desperately needed a second going over before being submitted for posting. It couldn't hurt & the worst they can say is "no, thanks." Thanks for the suggestion! I'll let you know how it works out -- if you here the funeral dirge, don't ask.

Diva,

I agree with you, sometimes we get the urge to do some unsolicited editing, and honestly I've indulged once or twice....but never again! You should see the amount of shit I got because I tried to be helpful to a writer who needed help. Some writers can't accept graciously given help and won't accept either that they need it; they think they're above all that and that if someone doesn't 'get' their story it's because that person is lacking.

I know you're old enough to do whatever you want but I'd hate to see you, or anyone else wanting to try, hurt because you tried to do a good deed.

 

[Darkniciad]

Diva,

I agree with you, sometimes we get the urge to do some unsolicited editing, and honestly I've indulged once or twice....but never again! You should see the amount of shit I got because I tried to be helpful to a writer who needed help. Some writers can't accept graciously given help and won't accept either that they need it; they think they're above all that and that if someone doesn't 'get' their story it's because that person is lacking.

I know you're old enough to do whatever you want but I'd hate to see you, or anyone else wanting to try, hurt because you tried to do a good deed.

It's bad enough when someone can't handle solicited advice, and I barely register on the harsh scale. I can't even imagine doing a full edit for someone out o' the kindness o' me heart and having them come back with scathing remarks.

 

[LadyCibelle]

It's bad enough when someone can't handle solicited advice, and I barely register on the harsh scale. I can't even imagine doing a full edit for someone out o' the kindness o' me heart and having them come back with scathing remarks.

Yup, it's even more painful; seem like you need to be burnt to know not to touch....well believe you me....I learned!

 

[sr71plt]

Hmmm. If you sent me an unsolicited "edit" of my work, you'd jolly well need to precede that with evidence that you have the credentials to be messing around with my work at all--or I'd edit your edit and post it on the forum.

(That's not meant as either a challenge or an invitation to start down this road with my stories. Everyone needs an editor behind them, me no less than others--but after getting masters degrees in both creative writing and editing/publishing, I expect my editors to have professional credentials--and to prove that to me beforehand. I think it would require a lot of chutzpah for someone without formal credentials to be pushing their idea of an "edit"--or of good writing/storytelling, for that matter--on anyone else without request/prior arrangement and that they'd deserve a bomb to be dropped in their pocket for acting on such an assumption.)

 

[RogueLurker]

uh ... sr71 ... delete that email I just sent you...

 

[sr71plt]

uh ... sr71 ... delete that email I just sent you...

I didn't have to; it self-destructed en route.

 

[DeeZire]

I would agree that an unsolicited edit could be taken the wrong way by an inexperienced writer, where an experienced writer could take it as a form of flattery. Perhaps a PM would be in order, choosing one sentence as an example of why the edit would be needed.

As far as credentials go, I would think reading a story, or an edited story by the proposed editor would suffice. Some of the dumbest people I know have college educations, and some of the brightest don't, and if I had to limit my professional associations to people with certifiable degrees, I'd be missing out on some of my best collaborators. (I'm talking about the field of music here, but I would think there would be a parallel with writing, especially writing short fiction, which should be covered in high school english. Too bad I daydreamed through high school english, and now I'm paying the price.)

 

[snooper]

... but after getting masters degrees in both creative writing and editing/publishing, ...

Can you name one Nobel Literature laureate who had ANY "formal credentials" in creative writing or editing/publishing?

Come to that can you name any best-selling author ~ditto~?

 

[DeeZire]

Can you name one Nobel Literature laureate who had ANY "formal credentials" in creative writing or editing/publishing?

Come to that can you name any best-selling author ~ditto~?

Well, technically, the writer is the one who gets to break the rules, and the editor is the one who has to know the rules so he can fix the writer's mistakes; so an editor could definitely benefit from a college degree, while the writer could probably skate by without one. I was just thinking that at the non-pro level, an un-degreed editor could probably handle the job, especially if it was just grammar and punctuation. Shaping a story, cutting, making suggestions, that's a whole 'nother conversation.

I wonder if editors have terminology for how deeply they delve into a story. SR? AS?

 

[sr71plt]

Can you name one Nobel Literature laureate who had ANY "formal credentials" in creative writing or editing/publishing?

Come to that can you name any best-selling author ~ditto~?

Apples and kumquats. The skills/talents for writing and editing, although sharing elements, are not the same thing. You wouldn't want a brain surgeon giving you a hysterectomy or a master carpenter doing your interior decoration. This is the typical writer's mistake--thinking when you've had some success at writing, you suddenly are the best editor, publisher, or agent in the country as well. You're not. Or that the best editors, publishers. or agents in the country either are also published writers (most of them aren't) or could just naturally sit down and write a best-seller (most of them couldn't).

Name a professional book editor who is a Nobel Literature laureate (to turn your question back around on you).

 

[sr71plt]

I wonder if editors have terminology for how deeply they delve into a story. SR? AS?

A proofer: Technically should only compare new (live) copy to an earlier version (dead) copy and point out the differences for someone else to decide whether to stick with the live copy version.

A line editor: Very basic spelling, grammar, and punctuation fix suggestions.

A copyeditor: Line editing plus contextual work, suggestions on the flow and consistency and basic structure, fact checking.

A development editor: Major overhaul and restructuring/addition/deletion suggestions on top of copyediting.

Publishing houses usually expect their book editors to be copyeditors; agents or publishing house acquisitions editors often serve as development editors (while usually zipping past the line edit chores, leaving those to someone else). Authors looking for a private edit often advertise for a proofer, when what they really need/expect is at least a copyeditor.

 

[LadyCibelle]

What is it with you, sr? Do you have to be a pompous ass a set number of times each week before you can be back to being someone who is interesting to be around? Do you have a quota you have to respect? It's sad because some of your latest posts, elsewhere, had led me to believe that I might have judged you prematurely and then you come back with something like this:

Hmmm. If you sent me an unsolicited "edit" of my work, you'd jolly well need to precede that with evidence that you have the credentials to be messing around with my work at all--or I'd edit your edit and post it on the forum.

Does that mean that you send your full resumé to everyone you edit for? I'm sure it doesnt!

Why is it that you have to alienate everyone who comes into contact with you? Could it be that you suffer from some kind of inferiority complex and you need to shit on everyone whom you think is a threat to you?

Your pompous ass-ness towards Snooper and anyone who disagrees with you is really becoming old and tiring. Don't you think it's time you grew up and started acting like the adult you're supposed to be.?

 

[Guest]

I won't lay claim to the idea, a while back I received a random "hello" from someone that was just too damned happy to be alive, but it made my day. If you know or are this person, please make yourself known. If not, a huggss to you anyway!

I find myself working with a GREAT guy that is so upbeat that its infectious, and I feel so much more energized myself. He loves life and leaves me feeling guilty for not being completely happy. But here's the idea. Why not a random "editing"?

It may be unwanted, maybe not, but if you (editors) have extra time, just randomly select a story for whatever reason, edit the story, and send it to the writer. I just did this (okay, admittedly but only by chance, it was less than a Lit page in length, but I didn't know that in advance)

Just an idea.

Your heart is in the right place, AS, but this is not a good idea.

As difficult as it may be for writers to accept the criticism they've asked for, imagine how much more upsetting it would be for a new and nervous writer to receive completely unsolicited editing advice in a PM one morning. Even the kindest critiques can seem harsh when it is your first story.

This is an amateur site. Some writers are looking to improve but some just want to post naughty fantasies for their partner. And others are perfectly happy posting hideously trite poem after hideously trite poem. But that's their choice.

I do believe when someone becomes very serious about writing they'll seek out editors and proofreaders and anyone else they can find to help. But I think they should be the ones to ask.

And quite frankly, there are plenty of budding writers on this forum already requesting editing help.

 

[Guest]

What is it with you, sr? Do you have to be a pompous ass a set number of times each week before you can be back to being someone who is interesting to be around? Do you have a quota you have to respect? It's sad because some of your latest posts, elsewhere, had led me to believe that I might have judged you prematurely and then you come back with something like this:


Does that mean that you send your full resumé to everyone you edit for? I'm sure it doesnt!

Why is it that you have to alienate everyone who comes into contact with you? Could it be that you suffer from some kind of inferiority complex and you need to shit on everyone whom you think is a threat to you?

Your pompous ass-ness towards Snooper and anyone who disagrees with you is really becoming old and tiring. Don't you think it's time you grew up and started acting like the adult you're supposed to be.?

So he's the same as he was the first time we met him, hmm?

I am so pleased I still have him on ignore.

 

[sr71plt]

What is it with you, sr? Do you have to be a pompous ass a set number of times each week before you can be back to being someone who is interesting to be around? Do you have a quota you have to respect? It's sad because some of your latest posts, elsewhere, had led me to believe that I might have judged you prematurely and then you come back with something like this:



Does that mean that you send your full resumé to everyone you edit for? I'm sure it doesnt!

Why is it that you have to alienate everyone who comes into contact with you? Could it be that you suffer from some kind of inferiority complex and you need to shit on everyone whom you think is a threat to you?

Your pompous ass-ness towards Snooper and anyone who disagrees with you is really becoming old and tiring. Don't you think it's time you grew up and started acting like the adult you're supposed to be.?

Yes, I certainly do make my résumé available to anyone I edit for. It's on my business Web site (and gets updated every month), along with a listing of all of the published books I've edited (primarily so the prospective clients can check on whether my editing specialities fit their needs). And the publishers I work for, in turn, send my credentials to any author whose work my am editing. This is no different from every other professional editor.

Beyond that, it isn't me who is starting the nasty words and namecalling on this thread--and it isn't me who is making the pompous assertion that anyone claiming to be an editor here should just start "editing" any story they see posted here and send it off to the story's author (presumably for praise and thanks) from out of the blue.

It was Snooper's posting that was challenging on the issue of writing/editing; I believe if you reread my response, you'll find it's pretty straightforward on that issue, and closely follows what DeeZire wrote.

It seems the defensiveness on this issue is from people concerned that credentials should be desireable (or expected) by writers from people "editing" their work, when I think writers jolly well should be concerned about the credentials of anyone messing around with their writing. It amazes me when they aren't. Doesn't it you?

For a Web site like this, mentoring and help of writers by other writers is just great--but getting to the point where these "other writers" think they now are experienced editors and should be praised for "editing" stories posted on Lit. they just happen to read and sending them back to the authors and expecting thanks and appreciation . . .

I reacted to this thread as I think any knowledgable writer would/should do. It doesn't really have anything to do with comparing whether my editorial pen is sharper than yours.

And I am remaining civil about it. I think you should do so as well, especially since you are the moderator here.

 

[LadyCibelle]

So he's the same as he was the first time we met him, hmm?

I am so pleased I still have him on ignore.

Unfortunately, yeah. I thought he had changed but looks like it was just a lapse in his 'nice' personality.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Yes, I certainly do make my résumé available to anyone I edit for. It's on my business Web site (and gets updated every month), along with a listing of all of the published books I've edited (primarily so the prospective clients can check on whether my editing specialities fit their needs). And the publishers I work for, in turn, send my credentials to any author whose work my am editing. This is no different from every other professional editor.

Beyond that, it isn't me who is starting the nasty words and namecalling on this thread--and it isn't me who is making the pompass assertion that anyone claiming to be an editor here should just start "editing" any story they see posted here and send it off to the story's author (presumably for praise and thanks) from out of the blue.

It was Snooper's posting that was challenging on the issue of writing/editing; I believe if you reread my response, you'll find it's pretty straightforward on that issue, and closely follows what DeeZire wrote.

It seems the defensiveness on this issue is from people concerned that credentials should be desireable (or expected) by writers from people "editing" their work, when I think writers jolly well should be concerned about the credentials of anyone messing around with their writing. It amazes me when they aren't. Doesn't it you?

For a Web site like this, mentoring and help of writers by other writers is just great--but getting to the point where these "other writers" think they now are experienced editors and should be praised for "editing" stories posted on Lit. they just happen to read and sending them back to the authors and expecting thanks and appreciation . . .

I reacted to this thread as I think any knowledgable writer would/should do. It doesn't really have anything to do with comparing whether my editorial pen is sharper than yours.

And I am remaining civil about it. I think you should do so as well, especially since you are the moderator here.

Oh but I was civil...and polite. If you read me properly, I said I was disappointed because on other threads you had made me think you weren't the asshole I thought you were.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you probably aren't an asshole at all....but you're pompous, self-important and you come across as superior to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Your 'bedside' manners leave much to be desired.

I don't want to fight with you or start another mudslingling war with you. I'm just asking you to please stop being so arrogant and pompous; your ideas might be better received if you didn't always try to hammer them to everyone.

Remember, a fly is easier caught with honey than with vinegar.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh but I was civil...and polite. If you read me properly, I said I was disappointed because on other threads you had made me think you weren't the asshole I thought you were.

I don't want to fight with you or start another mudslingling war with you. I'm just asking you to please stop being so arrogant and pompous; your ideas might be better received if you didn't always try to hammer them to everyone.

Remember, a fly is easier caught with honey than with vinegar.

You were neither civil nor polite. You called me a pompous ass twice, the first name calling of any sort on this thread, which to that point was substance being responded to with substance (you just didn't happen to like my substance).

All I ask you to do is to be a moderator and not to be the one initiating the namecalling and mudslinging, as you did on this thread.

You aren't reacting this way because I am hammering on these points; you are reacting this way because you feel threatened by the substance of my argument.

In my very first thread, I stated that everyone needed to be edited, no less me. I haven't seen anyone else being less pompous than this in their postings to this thread.

 

[RogueLurker]

Folks, it's a volunteer editor program. Volunteer Editors for Amateur Writers. No credentials required - just a willingness to do something for nothing. Some people are good at editing, some are not. Some are good at writing, some are not. Sometimes you find a good fit between a VE and an AW and as long both parties are happy, then that's that.

Everyone has a choice - If someone edits for you and you don't like the editing, ignore their suggestions and find someone else who you think you can work with. If you edit for someone and you don't like their stuff or they ignore your suggestions, find someone else that will appreciate what you have offered to do.

 

[sr71plt]

Folks, it's a volunteer editor program. Volunteer Editors for Amateur Writers. No credentials required - just a willingness to do something for nothing. Some people are good at editing, some are not. Some are good at writing, some are not. Sometimes you find a good fit between a VE and an AW and as long both parties are happy, then that's that.

Everyone has a choice - If someone edits for you and you don't like the editing, ignore their suggestions and find someone else who you think you can work with. If you edit for someone and you don't like their stuff or they ignore your suggestions, find someone else that will appreciate what you have offered to do.

Well put, and I bowed to that in my most recent posting but one. Unfortunately, that's not the topic this thread initiated in the original posting. This thread is about taking someone's posted story without their knowledge/request, editing, it and sending it back to them marked up with your "edits."

 

[RogueLurker]

Well put, and I bowed to that in my most recent posting but one. Unfortunately, that's not the topic this thread initiated in the original posting. This thread is about taking someone's posted story without their knowledge/request, editing, it and sending it back to them marked up with your "edits."

and you opened the door to talk about the audacity of sending edits without the proper credentials - and it appears to be a common tangent on this Forum these days.

I wouldn't recommend randomly sending out edits - the reaction from the author would probably not merit the time and energy put into a full blown edit (at least not the time and energy I used to put into them). Sending a brief private feedback to point out an issue or two, constructively, may serve as an introduction and if the author is willing, may start up a conversation where a full edit is requested.

AsylumSeeker, as Sarahh said, you're heart is in the right place but I think sending a private generalized Feedback is probably the way to go. Almost every author likes to get feedback - and if they are serious about improving and growing, they will take whatever constructive feedback you provide to heart and hopefully apply it to their next piece. If they aren't ready to do that, then your time is better spent helping those who will appreciate your efforts.

 

[LadyCibelle]

You were neither civil nor polite. You called me a pompous ass twice, the first name calling of any sort on this thread, which to that point was substance being responded to with substance (you just didn't happen to like my substance).

All I ask you to do is to be a moderator and not to be the one initiating the namecalling and mudslinging, as you did on this thread.

You aren't reacting this way because I am hammering on these points; you are reacting this way because you feel threatened by the substance of my argument.

In my very first thread, I stated that everyone needed to be edited, no less me. I haven't seen anyone else being less pompous than this in their postings to this thread.

Once again, you're twisting everything to fit your own design. I tried being nice, I tried being polite, I've even tried conceding that maybe you thought you were simply 'too perfect' for us mere mortals but I've had enough bending and bending and bending.

You do your things, I'll do mine and we'll leave it at that. There's no point in arguing with someone like you.

 

[LadyCibelle]

and you opened the door to talk about the audacity of sending edits without the proper credentials - and it appears to be a common tangent on this Forum these days.

I wouldn't recommend randomly sending out edits - the reaction from the author would probably not merit the time and energy put into a full blown edit (at least not the time and energy I used to put into them). Sending a brief private feedback to point out an issue or two, constructively, may serve as an introduction and if the author is willing, may start up a conversation where a full edit is requested.

AsylumSeeker, as Sarahh said, you're heart is in the right place but I think sending a private generalized Feedback is probably the way to go. Almost every author likes to get feedback - and if they are serious about improving and growing, they will take whatever constructive feedback you provide to heart and hopefully apply it to their next piece. If they aren't ready to do that, then your time is better spent helping those who will appreciate your efforts.

Careful, Rogue,

Mr Perfect will edit your post and say you don't have any credentials either. You have a few 'you're' that should have been your.