Native American fantasy stories

[qoof]

I'm fairly new to this site; but I have had a couple of exchanges with two nice guys after swapping private messages. One of the subjects we tried, together, as a story involved the treatment of captives taken from a wagon train by a tribe of Native American's, where the captives were handed over to the squaws for their amusement. This topic appealed to me and has its origins in my childhood games of cowboys and Indians, where I would always want to play the part of an Indian squaw, and where erotic fantasy was always part of the game.

What I learned from these exchanges was that there is a great deal of 'guilt' felt by white Americans about the past treatment of Native Americans, and of their stereotyping; and a consequent reluctance to create/share fantasies, or stories about them. This seems a pity from an erotic writer's perspective, because it is not that long ago that Westerns were very popular, both in the cinema and as television series.

I was told, for example, that it is politically wrong to refer to 'red indians', wand that this is now Native American. Yet, the Wild West is part of history, and there is no illusion about the treatment of captives, or other things which happened in those times, nor of 'red indians' as part of that history.

I was wondering whether there are still any writers around, today, specialising in this genre, because I cannot find any web-site or forum on the Internet that does this; nor does it seem to be popular on Literotica.

The stories I am interested in involve bdsm and this seemed the appropriate section to ask this question. If any other members have views on this subject I would be interested to hear them.

 

[KoPilot]

People that feel "white guilt" about stuff generally don't actually bother to educate themselves about the specifics of history and people and places and events because it's too scary and justifies the guilt even more. It's almost as if the guilt is a suitable substitute for any sort of active solution-seeking, and if they just feel bad enough for being white, then that sort of negates all the violence and injustice that PoC have endured and continue to endure. "White guilt" is basically burying one's head in the sand.

Not telling you that your kinks are bad and you should feel bad, but them's the breaks. People are uncomfortable with that which they're just familiar enough to be made uncomfortable by. It's also tricky when you're wanting to make un-PC desires semi-public, or expecting them to be publicly validated as in the case of trying to find stories about this on the internet.

I would say to not expect or feel entitled to outside validation, even if only because the people you might be getting validated by are actually scummy racists with a romanticized view of history.

 

[Stella_Omega]

libidos and community are often at odds.

After two hundred years of 'bloodthirsty red savages" and suchlike characterizations, yeah. The Native Americans that have managed to survive, would probably prefer to not hear that shit anymore in common culture. Almost every non-white, non-USAn group will tell you that white Americans broke all the toys and aren't invited to play with them anymore.

However that doesn't mean that individuals themselves don't get off like crazy on stories of Apache torture. Some of those individuals might be Native Americans themselves.

You can certainly write it and post it. it might fly, it might not.

 

[Bramblethorn]

After two hundred years of 'bloodthirsty red savages" and suchlike characterizations, yeah. The Native Americans that have managed to survive, would probably prefer to not hear that shit anymore in common culture. Almost every non-white, non-USAn group will tell you that white Americans broke all the toys and aren't invited to play with them anymore.

However that doesn't mean that individuals themselves don't get off like crazy on stories of Apache torture. Some of those individuals might be Native Americans themselves.

Wouldn't surprise me. I know a Black lady-sub who gets off on historical slavery RP with her white partner, and I've seen others around with similar kinks. But given that it's a major button for many people, I'd probably flag it in the story intro if I were posting that sort of stuff here.

Also, fetish fodder or no, readers in any historical genre are liable to nitpick if the history is inaccurate - whether it's an 1886 firearm in an 1876 setting, or the wrong Native American tribe in the wrong place. Authors who just want to write about a stereotype without doing their homework might be better off turning it into a fantasy setting.

 

[Athalia]

I was told, for example, that it is politically wrong to refer to 'red indians', wand that this is now Native American. Yet, the Wild West is part of history, and there is no illusion about the treatment of captives, or other things which happened in those times, nor of 'red indians' as part of that history.

I am certainly no expert, but my impression is that the phrase "red Indians" was not used in the American West. It's a British thing, to distinguish them from Indians from India. The Americans simply called them "Indians" or "redskins" (the latter considered somewhat perjorative nowadays, although apparently not so much in period).

The most authentic Western fiction I've read doesn't use the term "Indian" as much as you think it may. Instead, they identify the characters with the tribes they were from. The settlers who were closest to the frontier were acutely aware of the differences between one tribe or another, and seldom equated Crows with Cheyennes or Hopis with Comanches.

And nobody, but nobody, was calling them "Native Americans." So if you want your fiction to sound like an authentic voice from the American West, you shouldn't, either.

As for torture, it played a big part of some cultures. But the goal wasn't always sadism for sadism's sake. Often, it was used to test the character of captives, who gained respect if they endured it well. And self-torture was a part of the culture of the tribes of the Great Plains. I think that could be a springboard for a lot of torture fiction.

The best novel about native Americans remains the book Little Big Man by Thomas Berger. Berger exhaustively researched the subject, and his portrayal of Indian culture has been considered accurate by white and Indian critics alike.