Nambla

[Lancecastor]

Perhaps you didn't notice... but gay rights have indeed happened, to some extent.

So when will ManBoy rights become in vogue do you think?

 

[Temptress_1960]

So when will ManBoy rights become in vogue do you think?

I don't think they will, actually.

 

[phrodeau]

The pendulum over the issue of gay rights is still swinging.
http://www.outfront.org/action/alert2.html

2/27: Update on HF 331/SF 293 Domestic Partner Benefits for State Employees

Governor Pawlenty and the Minnesota Legislature will eliminate health care benefits for the same-sex partners of state employees this year. The state contracts, which include raises and benefits for over 50,000 state employees, have been held up by some of our state legislators who are adamant in their efforts to deny equal treatment for GLBT families.

OutFront Minnesota has worked with GLBT state employees and some legislators at the Capitol to fight this bigoted move, but we do not have the numbers to win this battle. In the past few weeks, GLBT and allied people have made a difference on this issue – this week, House Speaker, Steve Sviggum joined the Senate in adding sick and bereavement leave benefits back into the contracts. By adding sick and bereavement leave back into the contracts, state employees in same-sex relationships will be able to use their earned sick leave to take time off of work for family crisis.

While we know that these are only the most basic of rights for GLBT families, we still need to thank our legislators for at least recognizing that it is cruel to not allow our families to have sick and bereavement leave like the rest of the state’s workforce. Call or email Representative Steve Sviggum and Senator Hottinger and thank them for adding sick and bereavement leave back into the contracts. Tell them that providing health care benefits for all of the families of state workers is the only fair and just thing to do.


2/21: Update on HF 331/SF 293 Domestic Partner Benefits for State Employees

On the same day that HF 341 was introduced, House Speaker Steve Sviggum introduced HF 330, a bill ratifying contracts with state employees while excluding domestic partner benefits for same-sex partners. Majority Leader Hottinger introduced an identical bill, SF 293, in the Senate. Under these bills, GLBT families of state employees in Minnesota, many with children, will lose the benefits they currently have. In the battle to ratify the contracts, GLBT state employees have been the scapegoats of a thinly veiled attempt to undermine the collective bargaining process. In the past 27 years, the Legislature has ratified the state contracts with little or no controversy. At a recent press conference, OutFront Minnesota’s Executive Director, Ann DeGroot described this action as “obvious mean-spirited bigotry”.

While domestic partner benefits provide access to fair and equal compensation for all families of state employees, House Speaker Sviggum and Governor Pawlenty stated that they will not allow ratification of the union contracts if they provide domestic partner benefits. Senate Majority Leader Hottinger said that he has authored the bill because the contracts, that contain wage increases, health insurance and other benefits for over 50,000 employees, will not pass the House or be signed by the Governor if domestic partner benefits remain intact. The politics surrounding domestic partner benefits reveal that GLBT and allied people need to be always vigilant in speaking out for GLBT equality. Though it will be difficult to protect healthcare coverage for the families of GLBT state employees, OutFront Minnesota is fighting hard to maintain bereavement and sick leave benefits. These rights allow employees to take time off in case of a partner’s or their family member’s death or illness.

 

[Lancecastor]

I don't think they will, actually.

NAMBLA's been around since 1978...25 years and now they're mentioned in mainstream media fairly often...Michael Jackson and that Home Alone kid are helping to "normalize" people to the idea of ManBoy love being real...

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

It's my opinion that pedophiles are irrevocably broken. Their brains are wired wrong and no amount of prison or therapy will stop them from sexually seeking out children at their earliest opportunity. So, when a pedophile is convicted of this type of criminal sexual violence against children, and there is solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they are what they seem to be, they should be taken out behind the court-house and unceremoniously popped twice in the back of the head with a .357 magnum. After which, their families should be presented with a bill for the two rounds of ammo.

I have no sympathy for anyone who would prey on children.

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Shot out back o' the courthouse like a dawg"

I have a weakness for the same concept of justice, Stalin style. Would take quite a burden off the taxpayer. Greedy CEOs and loud youths on the subway who wear those preposterous flat-billed ball caps are first to get popped in the medulla, in my nation.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

It's my opinion that pedophiles are irrevocably broken. Their brains are wired wrong and no amount of prison or therapy will stop them from sexually seeking out children at their earliest opportunity. So, when a pedophile is convicted of this type of criminal sexual violence against children, and their is solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they are what they seem to be, they should be taken out behind the court-house and unceremoniously popped twice in the back of the head with a .357 magnum. After which, their families should be presented with a bill for the two rounds of ammo.

I have no sympathy for anyone who would prey on children.

I'll even chip in for the ammo for those with no families to pay.

 

[Tungwagger]

Re: Hot button

You're really stirring the shit with this one, aren't you, L? I've never had sex with an underage boy. However, I remember quite fondly the steamy evening at the local bathhouse (the Apollo) when I sucked the cock of a gorgeous blonde young man who couldn't have been much over 18, while in turn being sucked by another cute young man with long hair.


Phwew! It's gettin' hot in here!

Being white...were they racist?...

just asking....

 

[tendril]

Should pedophilia be recognized as a "sexual preference" in the same way as homosexuality has been?

Discuss.

No...its destructive and deviant. Like cutting lose some seriously mentally disturbed people and saying their "lifestyle preference" is to do whatever the fuck they like.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Nambla

No...its destructive and deviant. Like cutting lose some seriously mentally disturbed people and saying their "lifestyle preference" is to do whatever the fuck they like.

It's my opinion that pedophiles are irrevocably broken. Their brains are wired wrong and no amount of prison or therapy will stop them from sexually seeking out children at their earliest opportunity. So, when a pedophile is convicted of this type of criminal sexual violence against children, and their is solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they are what they seem to be, they should be taken out behind the court-house and unceremoniously popped twice in the back of the head with a .357 magnum. After which, their families should be presented with a bill for the two rounds of ammo.

I have no sympathy for anyone who would prey on children.

Your attitudes towards pedophiles match the way homosexuals were treated by law and culture in the USA up until 1993:

The first known homosexual political organization in the U.S. was the Mattachine Society, founded in November of 1950 in Los Angeles. Persecution of homosexuals was rampant. Police constantly entrapped and brutalized gay people. Public disclosure of homosexuality was enough to get most people fired from their jobs and ostracized from families and communities. By early 1953 under President Eisenhower homosexuality became by executive order a necessary and sufficient reason in itself to fire any federal employee from his or her job. Most defense industries and others with government contracts followed suit, and the U.S. Postal Service aided these industries by putting tracers on suspected homosexuals' mail in order to gather enough evidence for dismissal and possibly arrest.

Non celibate gay people were condemned by and unwelcome in most mainstream religious organizations not only as leaders but even simply as members.

Discrimination in employment probably ranked as the most threatening type of persecution gay people faced and still face-second only to physical assault in its violence but affecting far more people. Eisenhower's executive order stood from 1953 until 1993. There has never been any employment protection for gay people as there is now for straight white women and straight men and women who belong to racial and ethnic minorities. Employers routinely refuse to hire gay people regardless of their qualifications and fire any who manage to get hired while closeted.

Still, the ugliest of all forms of discrimination was and is undoubtedly gay bashing, especially when carried out by public officials. Police harassment and brutality have been constant features of gay and lesbian life for decades. Indefinite detainment's, beatings, and public humiliations are only the tip of the iceberg. Lesbian and male drag queens through the 1950s and 1960s suffered frequent rapes and sexual assaults committed by police officers, sometimes inside police precincts. And police were certainly no help when beatings, rapes, and lesser indignities were visited upon gay and lesbian people by civilians.

In December, 1973, this movement achieved a major victory when pressure groups succeeded in forcing the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from its list of mental illnesses. This change eliminated one of the reasons employers so often fire non-heterosexuals and one of the reason judges so often awarded custody to heterosexual over homosexual parents-but only one.

http://www.salp.wmich.edu/lbg/GLB/Manual/abrief.html

 

[tendril]

It's my opinion that pedophiles are irrevocably broken. Their brains are wired wrong and no amount of prison or therapy will stop them from sexually seeking out children at their earliest opportunity.

Agree.

Here in New Zealand we have 'preventative detention'. Thats a nice term for ....let's throw the key away and check back later.

 

[*Eve*]

people are not objecting to the homosexual aspect of Nambla, they are objecting to the advocacy of having sex with children.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

... Greedy CEOs and loud youths on the subway who wear those preposterous flat-billed ball caps are first to get popped in the medulla, in my nation.

And thus we are forced suffer the presence of child-raping monsters to insure the civil liberties of the rest of us.

I'm generally against the death penalty, but where crimes against children are at issue, I'm perfectly willing to get medieval on a motherfucker's ass.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Re: Re: Hot button

Being white...were they racist?...

just asking....

WHite doesn't necessarily equal racist.

White+ American = racist

LOL

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

The idea that social deviance (of any kind) is "socially constructed" is definitely the current trend - that no behavior is wrong in itself, but that its "wrongness" is agreed upon by informal societal consensus. This is the rationale for social activism to attempt to "normalize" previously unacceptable behaviors (e.g. homosexuality, etc.) I agree to an extent with this idea and this is definitely the way homosexuality has entered the mainstream.

However, I don't see pedophilia doing the same. The trends in developmental psychology seem to be giving us more and more of the sense that children in their progression toward adulthood has some very significant differences in their mental abilities that would impact on their abilities to make an adult-type decision to consent to a sexual relationship. Unless activists can overcome the science, I see pedophilia remaining a crime (and perhaps becoming an even more reviled one).

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Agree.

Here in New Zealand we have 'preventative detention'. Thats a nice term for ....let's throw the key away and check back later.

They should make them walk through a Maori neighborhood with a sign on that reads "I fuck little boys."

 

[MissTaken]

It is entirely likely that children under the age of 18 are capable of informed and reasonable consent, but it is against the law,

So, when we talk about legalizing man/boy love...no , it won't be the next movement. Gays will be permitted to adopt, long before man/boy love is accepted.

First of all, how can one determine who the children are and who the young adults are. Absent any legal authority, it is pretty hazy. How would one be able to ascertain the ability to consent?

Children will consent to sex based upon their cognitive development and history. A nine year old girl will dress pretty and give daddy a blow job in order to get the money to go to the movies. Is this consensual? Not.

So, when talking about man/boy sex, how much coercion is involved, how capable are the boys for making the decision?

Pedophelia is a sickness and I have to agree that thus far, treatment of any kind hasn't proven to be successful to any great degree.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

... and perhaps becoming an even more reviled one.

I don't see how that would be possible. Evening in Prison pedophiles are considered the lowest of the low.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

It is entirely likely that children under the age of 18 are capable of informed and reasonable consent, but it is against the law.

The age of consent in these parts is 16, not 18. But, pedophiles aren't interested in either 16 or 18 year olds, so that doesn't really matter.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I don't see how that would be possible. Evening in Prison pedophiles are considered the lowest of the low.

Well, at least now they're not immediately taken out back and shot.

 

[Gil_Favor]

It's my opinion that pedophiles are irrevocably broken. Their brains are wired wrong and no amount of prison or therapy will stop them from sexually seeking out children at their earliest opportunity. So, when a pedophile is convicted of this type of criminal sexual violence against children, and there is solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they are what they seem to be, they should be taken out behind the court-house and unceremoniously popped twice in the back of the head with a .357 magnum. After which, their families should be presented with a bill for the two rounds of ammo.

I have no sympathy for anyone who would prey on children.

I have to agree with you on this issue.

 

[Lancecastor]

1. Being a pedophile (attraction to children) isn't the crime, molesting them is.

Pedophilia and child molestation are used in a variety of ways, even by professionals. Pedophilia usually refers to an adult psychosexual disorder characterized by a preference for prepubescent children as sexual partners; this preference may or may not be acted upon. The term hebephilia is sometimes used to describe adult sexual attractions to adolescents and children who have reached puberty.

Whereas pedophilia and hebephilia refer to psychological propensities, child molestation and child sexual abuse are used to describe actual sexual contact between an adult and someone who has not reached the legal age of consent. In this context, someone who has not reached the age of consent is referred to as a child, even though he or she may be a teenager.

Although the terms are not always used consistently, it is useful to distinguish between pedophiles/hebephiles and child molesters/abusers. Pedophilia and hebephilia are diagnostic labels. Not all pedophiles and hebephiles actually molest children; an adult can be attracted to children or adolescents without ever actually engaging in sexual contact with them.

Child molestation and child sexual abuse refer to actions, and don't imply a particular psychological makeup or motive on the part of the perpetrator. Not all incidents of child sexual abuse are perpetrated by pedophiles or hebephiles; in some cases, the perpetrator has other motives for his or her actions and does not manifest an ongoing pattern of sexual attraction to children.

Thus, not all child sexual abuse is perpetrated by pedophiles (or hebephiles) and not all pedophiles and hebephiles actually commit abuse. Consequently, it is important to choose one's terms carefully.


Remember....being a pedophile (attraction to children) isn't the crime, molesting them is.

2. Historically, Society Has Used Children As An Excuse To Discriminate

Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority society's most vulnerable members. Historically, Black men in the United States were often falsely accused of raping White women, and commonly lynched as a result. Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices.


See: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html


So...are the Age of Consent laws ways of protecting children....or enforcing discrimination?

 

[MissTaken]

The age of consent in these parts is 16, not 18. But, pedophiles aren't interested in either 16 or 18 year olds, so that doesn't really matter.

Yes, I am well aware of issues and patterns of pedophila. It just seemed there were two discussions happening.

One, concerning the age of consent. Here, the age of consent is 18, but the law has very few ramifications for those adults having sex with 16-18 year olds.

The second concerning the likelihood that nambla can ever make their activities become accepted by society. Never.

Frankly, I agree with you. For those who have, with very little if any doubt have committed sexual offenses against children and are pedophiles in the clinical, DSM IV sense, should be ....well, you said it best.

As for Lance's question:

"So...are the Age of Consent laws ways of protecting children....or enforcing discrimination?"

They are protecting children. The laws are the laws and do not apply to only to any specific group of people.

Children cannot make adult decisions. The problem is in determining when a child is no longer a child.

 

[glamorilla]

Well said MissTaken.

 

[Lancecastor]

Children cannot make adult decisions. The problem is in determining when a child is no longer a child.

I figure any person old enough to be tried in adult court for shooting someone ought to be able to choose to touch another person.

13 year olds are tried as adults more and more frequently in the USA all the time.

The US restricts sex and is liberal about firearms....it perhaps should be the other way 'round, yes?

Have a look at the violent crime and imprisonment rates per capita in The Netherlands versus the USA sometime.

Outside the USA ages of consent vary; Japan effectively doesn't have one...so consider that American Laws are but one artificial measure of the way things are in the world.