My thoughts on what BDSM seems to be.....

[Despin207]

This is a genuine post to engage with adults in a frank discussion on BDSM, although I suspect I could get strong reactions to what follows.

Having thought a little about BDSM and why people invest their time and energy engaging with it, it seems to me that what we have is a meeting of victims of unbalanced states of minds.

I realize that there is a very large range of behavior that can be categorized as BDSM, but those who frequent this and other websites are beyond the simple gentle biting, ass slapping and pinching and so I am more thinking about the average-medium and much more extreme behavior, both physical and mental/psychological.

My feelings on the subject are that instead of seeking to redress those imbalances, those who have chosen to engage in this type of behavior have instead chosen to revel in the imbalances of their partners, to exploit them and in turn, this keeps their partner from fulfilling their true potential. But also, in doing this, each person is in fact exploiting themselves and preventing themselves from moving to a balanced state, a state in which they no longer wish to control or be controlled and no longer pulled to behave in XYZ way by some invisible force.

It does not seem healthy or in the interests of any person to desire to dominate another or be dominated by another, as such behavior re-classifies & categories people and makes them more akin to objects, instead of being healthy individuals without being pulled one way or another.
Does human development, in all its various ways, not try to prevent such differentiation in society, which could be regarded as discrimination and have we not become more knowledgeable and increasingly egalitarian?

I know we have free will but I argue that the drug addict and the alcoholic are both acting out of free will but we still try to help them, and others who also are out of balance.

 

[knot_sweet]

Wow.

I mean, really...just speechless here...

edited to add; With your very first post, you have chosen to question the mental accuity of the quixotic erotics with the sharpest intellects and razor keen wits. The people in this section of Lit spend their whole kinky lives attempting to make sure what they do is done with the utmost consideration and care. They analyse and scrutinise every aspect of their needs, desires, actions and reactions. More concern is shown for themselves, their playmates and other community members than any other group of sexually consenting adults. Yet these are the people you have chosen to denigrate? end edit add.

I'm going to leave the oh so politely scathing attempt to educate your woefully small mind to some of the more experienced members of this section of Lit.

*gets a bag of popcorn and a comfy chair*

Perhaps it's my unbalanced mind, but I'm going to enjoy this...

 

[Stella_Omega]

"thought a little" is a very good way of putting it.

Instead of thinking about it a little, go read a lot. Educate yourself. Then come back here for your conversation.

For my part, I have spent far too many hours debating people like yourself-- hours that could have been more profitably spent doing things that amuse me, like oh, say... shoving my own well-lubed thumb up my ass.

 

[BiBunny]

I once was unbalanced.

Now I'm stable.

I'm still a kinky motherfucker.

On the other hand, you seem to be discussing D/s, rather than BDSM as a whole. While it's all technically under the same umbrella, one does not equal the other.

 

[YourCaptor]

So what then is balanced? You make it sound like it would be bland, motiveless, simply existing.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I don't think there is such a thing as perfect balance more than for very short periods of time. I think that is true for humans as well as relationships.
BDSM or not, D/s or not and no, like Bunni said, one does not equal the other.

 

[Honed_Hunger]

This is a genuine post to engage with adults in a frank discussion on BDSM, although I suspect I could get strong reactions to what follows.

Having thought a little about BDSM and why people invest their time and energy engaging with it, it seems to me that what we have is a meeting of victims of unbalanced states of minds.

I realize that there is a very large range of behavior that can be categorized as BDSM, but those who frequent this and other websites are beyond the simple gentle biting, ass slapping and pinching and so I am more thinking about the average-medium and much more extreme behavior, both physical and mental/psychological.

My feelings on the subject are that instead of seeking to redress those imbalances, those who have chosen to engage in this type of behavior have instead chosen to revel in the imbalances of their partners, to exploit them and in turn, this keeps their partner from fulfilling their true potential. But also, in doing this, each person is in fact exploiting themselves and preventing themselves from moving to a balanced state, a state in which they no longer wish to control or be controlled and no longer pulled to behave in XYZ way by some invisible force.

It does not seem healthy or in the interests of any person to desire to dominate another or be dominated by another, as such behavior re-classifies & categories people and makes them more akin to objects, instead of being healthy individuals without being pulled one way or another.
Does human development, in all its various ways, not try to prevent such differentiation in society, which could be regarded as discrimination and have we not become more knowledgeable and increasingly egalitarian?

I know we have free will but I argue that the drug addict and the alcoholic are both acting out of free will but we still try to help them, and others who also are out of balance.

We're all fucked up in some way or another..........

Some of the most fucked up of society's lot, are the ones who are ignorant and narrowminded, yet still make damning judgements against something they truly know nothing about.

Read a few 1000 pages about what it is we kinksters do.........and then get back with us. Right now, your shit's not worth blowing out of the water, and I'm certainly not going to go through the process of trying to educate someone who's probably not going to ever be able to grasp the concept of BDSM.

Internet experts...........gotta love em.

Ok. Maybe not.

 

[waaitg]

This is a genuine post to engage with adults in a frank discussion 1 on BDSM, although I suspect I could get strong reactions to what follows.

Having thought a little about BDSM and why people invest their time and energy engaging with it, it seems to me that what we have is a meeting of victims of unbalanced states of minds.2, A & B

I realize that there is a very large range of behavior that can be categorized as BDSM 3, but those who frequent this and other websites are beyond the simple gentle biting, ass slapping and pinching and so I am more thinking about the average-medium and much more extreme behavior, both physical and mental/psychological.

My feelings on the subject are that instead of seeking to redress those imbalances 4, those who have chosen to engage in this type of behavior have instead chosen to revel in the imbalances of their partners, to exploit them and in turn, this keeps their partner from fulfilling their true potential. But also, in doing this, each person is in fact exploiting themselves and preventing themselves from moving to a balanced state, a state in which they no longer wish to control or be controlled and no longer pulled to behave in XYZ way by some invisible force.

It does not seem healthy or in the interests of any person to desire to dominate another or be dominated by another 5, as such behavior re-classifies & categories people and makes them more akin to objects, instead of being healthy individuals without being pulled one way or another.
Does human development, in all its various ways, not try to prevent such differentiation in society 6, which could be regarded as discrimination and have we not become more knowledgeable and increasingly egalitarian?

I know we have free will but I argue that the drug addict and the alcoholic are both acting out of free will but we still try to help them, and others who also are out of balance. 7

Allow me to give your first post a little thought in return.

First a few definitions from a dictionary:

dis·cus·sion (Noun) an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate.

pre·judge (Verb) Form a judgment on (an issue or person) prematurely and without adequate information.

prej·u·dice (Noun) Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience.

Now some brief points:

1. You claim you wish to engage in a discussion, but as the definition indicates, a discussion requires consideration. However you have prejudged the people who engage in BDSM, thereby disqualifying yourself from being able to participate in a discussion. You just wish to present your preconceived opinion under the guise of a discussion, on an activity not based on experience.

You may feel free to claim it is based on reasoning, but the funny thing is that you present your conclusions first, and then explain how you arrived at that conclusion, but the problem is that you do not explain any of the alternatives you have considered (if any). Hardly the epitome of reasoning.

2. ... what WE have is a meeting of victims of unbalanced states of minds. The emphasis is mine.

A ) There is no WE here. Please do not attempt to include no associate me with this ASSertion that YOU have made.

B ) What qualifications do you have to make the assessment that all minds engaged in BDSM are unbalanced?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion that people who engage in BDSM are unbalanced, but you are also entitled to an opinion about anything:

For example: that the bubbles we see on the shore are proof that whales fart.

An opinion, unsupported by any impartial analysis nor qualified analysis is not a discussion, it is simply the adult form of a child going "I'm right cuz it's so!"

3 ) Finally we agree on something but ...

4 ) Here you actually admit that this is about your feelings about a preconceived imbalance.

The problem though is that this is not enough for you to dictate a solution. The first thing you have to do is convince people that this issue is real. Both the civil rights movement and the KKK understand this. That if you wish to convince people to change their behavior, you have to be able to convince them that there is an issue AND that they agree with you that there is a reason to change established patterns of behavior.

For all the effort you put into this post, I find your effort at convincing:

complete strangers,
to change change their behavior and opinions,
about an activity they safely be assumed to enjoy,

negligent.

If I wanted to convince people to change their careers because they can make more money due to them being in an imbalanced relationship with their large multinational employers, I STILL would put more effort into any campaign I would engage in than the efforts you have made.

If I wanted people to change their diet to exclude meat, again, I would expect them to request a reason other than "because I think so".

5 ) Well how can I possibly argue with "It does not seem healthy...", after all:

* It does not seem healthy to subject a sick person to radioactive materials that are known to cause cancer in nature.
* Let a complete stranger beat you with a stick as a protest against violence
* Or to dedicate millions of dollars in allowing appeals when a court of law has found someone guilty via due process

But "seems" is a lousy standard to follow when:

* Radioactive materials properly used can be used to save lives
* Read up on a little fellow named Gandhi if you wish to know more about this
* Due process is not perfect and when people are freed after more than 22 years, it demonstrates why we have these safeguards in place to redress mistakes

6 ) Preventing differentiation is a slippery slope when you can use it to impose your own values anytime anyone disagrees with you. For instance what is to stop you from deciding that:

* Don't pay doctors any more than you would pay someone who works part-time delivering newspapers because they are both "doing their best".
* Gay people should be forced to marry and raise kids because "that's the way God intended!"
* Priests who molest children should not be punished because the church pays to defend the priests and church's are agents of God.

7 ) If you really think that addictions to drugs and alcohol is the equivalent of engaging in BDSM, then ... wow ... I really have no response to that, other than "At least you didn't claim it was worse than Hitler"...

W~

 

[mediocre]

I was going to post a rebuttal but then I decided to go with my first instinct and just say you are an idiot. Arguing with idiots is pointless and a huge waste of time. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[oneguy4fun]

Is there anyone who is balanced? You make a lot of big generalization and clearly do not understand BDSM is you think it is about exploiting others. Sure, there are some people that get involved in BDSM for the wrong reasons or because there is some deep issue that is driving it, but the majority of people are in it because it is something they enjoy.

Any experienced person knows that it it not exploiting others but it is about enjoying each others kinks and desires. Even though there is domination, there is a give and take between the Mistress/Master and the sub. If the sub was not benefiting in some way from the relationship then he/she would not stick around.

BDSM can be a very healthy for a relationship and does bring out the best in people when done right. I for one am happiest when I am submissive. I can attest that ever since my wife agreed to a Female Led Marriage, our relationship has grown stronger and we are so much more happier and in love with each other. We've been married for 16 years, but the BDSM aspect had added so much fun and excitement that it seems like we are still on our honeymoon.

Having said all that, there probably is a small population that truly is imbalanced and doing BDSM for the wrong reasons but there are people like that in every aspect of life. It has nothing to do with BDSM.

 

[Despin207]

On the other hand, you seem to be discussing D/s, rather than BDSM as a whole. While it's all technically under the same umbrella, one does not equal the other.

I'm not talking only of one side of the equation. You've got to have 2 to tango.

Is it not that one person's infliction equals anther's pain?
Its a zero sum game.
Does it not all result in zero?

 

[Despin207]

Some of the most fucked up of society's lot, are the ones who are ignorant and narrowminded, yet still make damning judgements against something they truly know nothing about.

But not those who seek to control another?

 

[Honed_Hunger]

But not those who seek to control another?

You have your perecptions, and I have mine.

Your's aren't right for me, and mine's not right for you.

Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish with this thread, but being verbally field dressed will most likely be the end result.

 

[4bidnfruit]

I’ll probably just add fuel to your fire here but what the hell.

I am not going to generalize the greatness of the people in this forum any more than I can generalize the bdsm community as a whole. There is good and bad in every organization/forum/community.

I frequent this site often and I don’t engage in bdsm, so perhaps I am truly the one with mental/psychological issues. Personally, I didn’t hear of BDSM when I was younger but I thought everyone engaged in bondage, domination, little bit of spanking or whatever else we found ourselves involved in. It just seemed to be a part of normal human sexuality. Unfortunately, I went from a little kink to being educated to the extreme side of things and became ignorant in my hate. I’m curious what brought you here.

I can’t argue for bdsm because after re-evaluating my own ignorance, I’ve come to believe, again, that BDSM is normal and from what I have learned here, that makes me just as ignorant as you. I don’t see the point in arguing it either way because I don’t engage in it but I can debate the psychological issue with you. I would be engaging in bdsm if I were stable but knowing that I am not, keeps me from crossing those lines. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe there are plenty of unbalanced people that engage in bdsm and some of those people use bdsm as an excuse to justify their behavior just as there are people that are willing to beat me to death with their Bible and call it love.

When I started reading this forum, there were several people that made me sick to my stomach. It wasn’t their behavior that made me sick, it was my perception. Perhaps you need a little more education to help you see the whole picture?

 

[ultramarineblue]

I'm not talking only of one side of the equation. You've got to have 2 to tango.

Is it not that one person's infliction equals anther's pain?
Its a zero sum game.
Does it not all result in zero?

She's not talking about only one side either. As others have said, read and educate yourself before making judgments.

 

[His_pet_slut]

I'm sorry, I'm about to go indulge my unbalanced self with the one that is apparently taking advantage of my unbalance in order to indulge his opposing unbalanced self. That leaves me little time to address your so-called discussion.

Damn, now I'm dizzy.


For what it's worth, though. We are both very successful and highly sought after business people within our community. We are neither one raving alcoholics or drug addicts. We both have large circles of friends and do volunteer work within our community. We both have healthy self-esteem and choose to privately indulge in our our kinks in this manner. I think I'll keep my fucking unbalance and I hope to hell he never decides to rid himself of his.

You on the other hand, have an unbalance I find quite distasteful. That of a sanctimonious judgmental fool that talks out of their ass about subjects they obviously know little of.

 

[FurryFury]

The drive to have sex of whatever variety is never wrong or right. That's determined by how you go about it, i.e. what you actually do. So check yourself, are you doing what you do with an adult? Are they of age, sane and sober enough to consent? If so I call it all good. If not, step back and do nothing until you can find someone who is of age, sane and sober enough to consent.

Mental illness is, right now, an epidemic in all human societies that have time for leisure. It is not more concentrated or special to BDSM. Anyone who thinks so is off track. Anything "edgy" which, btw, BDSM is rapidly losing as it becomes more homogenized by society and in media, is always to the ignorant, assumed to be either evil or mental illness based. Not so. Not that such a person can be convinced.

 

[His_pet_slut]

A second thought before I leave for the day. Some of the most seriously unbalanced people I have encountered in life are preparing to go sit in pious humility before a man standing in the pulpit of the local mega-church and dominating them with his views on how they by gawd better be living their lives and then shell out a good portion of their earnings to keep him in his Armani suits. But hey, they are a-okay in their imbalance as it does not involve sex. Well, supposedly...

 

[FurryFury]

A-fucking-men!

A second thought before I leave for the day. Some of the most seriously unbalanced people I have encountered in life are preparing to go sit in pious humility before a man standing in the pulpit of the local mega-church and dominating them with his views on how they by gawd better be living their lives and then shell out a good portion of their earnings to keep him in his Armani suits. But hey, they are a-okay in their imbalance as it does not involve sex. Well, supposedly...

 

[LucyH]

The day when humanity reaches the point where everybody wants the same thing in bed would be a sad day indeed.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not talking only of one side of the equation. You've got to have 2 to tango.

Here you show how basic your ignorance is. D/s is an acronym for Dominance/submission, which as you see includes both tangoers. The comparison is not between the active and passive party, but between a relational game and a physical one.

Is it not that one person's infliction equals anther's pain?

No, it's that one person's pleasure preferences compliment another person's pleasure preferences. Just because YOU don't think these preferences are ones that you would share doesn't make them wrong for the people who have them.

Its a zero sum game.
Does it not all result in zero?

Nope, it results in pleasure and intimacy for two (or more) people, at its best. Of course outcomes are not always optimal, but neither are marriages or conventional sexual encounters.

But not those who seek to control another?

Look up the term "consensual BDSM" for the answer to that question.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Thanks, y'all. I had thought about responding to the OP, but really didn't want to strain my few remaining (unbalanced) brain cells trying to educate the willfully ignorant. You know, every so often we get someone who wanders in here to try to convince us that our needs and desires and pleasures are wrong and harmful, and will condemn us to the fires of everlasting hell -- or some such -- but we can save ourselves if we only change our lives and live as they do. To that I have said, and do say:

No. Go away. Leave me to my pursuits, which hurt no one (except perhaps myself and my of-age, willing, sane and sober partner), and go thou and do likewise.

 

[CutieMouse]

I realize that there is a very large range of behavior that can be categorized as BDSM, but those who frequent this and other websites are beyond the simple gentle biting, ass slapping and pinching and so I am more thinking about the average-medium and much more extreme behavior, both physical and mental/psychological.

One of the fascinating things [to me] about this argument, is that it essentially argues that "simple gentle biting, ass slapping and pinching" are acceptable uses of power/control in sex, but "more extreme behavior" is not. It kind of smacks of "I like a bit of hair pulling, ass slapping, animalistic sex as much as the next guy... but I'm nothing like those perverts over there! Those people are sick!"

My feelings on the subject are that instead of seeking to redress those imbalances, those who have chosen to engage in this type of behavior have instead chosen to revel in the imbalances of their partners, to exploit them and in turn, this keeps their partner from fulfilling their true potential. But also, in doing this, each person is in fact exploiting themselves and preventing themselves from moving to a balanced state, a state in which they no longer wish to control or be controlled and no longer pulled to behave in XYZ way by some invisible force.

Are some people who practice "BDSM" co-dependent, mentally ill, suffer from issues of low self esteem, etc? Yes. However, it's quite a leap to decide that because some people might not be of perfectly sound mind; none are. That's like saying "Susie likes blow jobs. Susie is a girl. Therefore all girls like blow jobs." (This is not what one would call an advanced form of debate, designed to encourage discussion.)

It does not seem healthy or in the interests of any person to desire to dominate another or be dominated by another, as such behavior re-classifies & categories people and makes them more akin to objects, instead of being healthy individuals without being pulled one way or another.
Does human development, in all its various ways, not try to prevent such differentiation in society, which could be regarded as discrimination and have we not become more knowledgeable and increasingly egalitarian?

Okay, I'm gonna show my "unbalanced" side here for a second... but being objectified (within agreed upon parameters) can be really.really.fun. I'm just sayin'.

Setting that aside... most of the things I do for my lover, are the things I did within my marriage [when married]. I tidy his house (when he lets me), bring him homemade cookies, willingly give him what he wants/needs sexually, remain a loyal friend, and happily accept his advice/guidance when I need it. He has the ultimate "say" in how things run (because ultimately, someone has to make final decisions), but he also views me as an intelligent, grounded individual who often offers a different perspective/wise counsel (and he's smart enough to frequently ask for my opinion).

Why are those things acceptable (and by some segments of society, encouraged) in marriage, but suddenly unhealthy/unbalanced if the label "BDSM" is thrown into the mix?

Another example - I am in sales. I must follow the directions of my Assistant Manager, Manager, and any edicts that come down from the Corporate Offices. In addition, I serve my clients, some say to the point of spoiling them. I'm one of the top sales people in my shop, with an insanely loyal client base. Yet the only "power" I have at work, comes from the rewards of following the rules (ie: keeping my job).

If I replaced "BDSM" with "Work", by the OP's definition, my work environment would be "out of balance" and unhealthy. So again - why is one unhealthy,a and the other, not?

I know we have free will but I argue that the drug addict and the alcoholic are both acting out of free will but we still try to help them, and others who also are out of balance.

Out of curiosity, how exactly would you go about "helping" these people?

 

[dreamykitten2]

All I can say is.......

Everyone else has said everything I agree with ! You must be kidding! You clearly have no clue! Do some reading! Get a life!

 

[ponysslave]

Um, thank you for your input? Perhaps you'd be happier in a yoga studio where the people are more balanced.