My generation

[JMohegan]

Near the end of my freshman year in college 4 kids were killed at Kent State. From that day forward, it was all different. We looked at the police and the military in a different way. We distrusted them intensely. The student takeover of the admin buildings at Berkeley had happened the year before that, as I recall, so we'd already begun to distrust our own college administrators based on their reactions to that episode. We truly did not trust anyone more than a few years older than us.

I was born in '58, and watched the 60's unfold with my parents - whom I obviously relied on to explain what was going on. So for me it was never a "don't trust older people" thing. Instead, events got translated, in my kid-brain, as good guy/bad guy conflicts.

The president was assassinated when I was in kindergarten. My mother cried, my father stood there in silent fury, and I felt really bad for the president's kids.

I was in first grade when we turned on the news and saw Alabama police beating up a bunch of people who just wanted to take a walk across some bridge. Beating and beating, even though they didn't fight back, until the people got all bloody.

Three years later, just after my 10th birthday, the great hero of my childhood was shot dead. My mother cried, my father stood there in silent fury, and I was terrified to realize, for the first time, that heroes don't always win.

Of course, the murder made lots of people angry. They smashed stuff and set fire to buildings all over the country.

A few weeks after that, a guy with a weird double name killed the man my mother had been stuffing envelopes for, the dead president's little brother. And a few months after that, the Chicago police went berserk and started beating everybody up at the Democratic convention. The next year, we found out that American soldiers had tortured and killed an entire village in Vietnam. Even old people and little kids.

I was 12 when those students got shot at Kent State, but for some reason I didn't find it all that shocking. I already knew that bad guys sometimes dress in uniforms, and since I wasn't in college yet, I never took it personally.

 

[JMohegan]

We had Black Power groups like the Black Panthers to counter the KKK. They tended to go overboard as much as the KKK did.

No they didn't. Not even close.

 

[JMohegan]

I'd almost given up on my generation. I thought we were the ones who fell asleep in the midst of all this noise. And I considered myself one of the day-dreamers, who'd dropped the ball in the throes of becoming a mother, a home-owner, a middle-class urban statistic.

And then Obama was elected. He's exactly my age.

This reminds me of Gail Collins' op-ed on the 5th of November. Apparently taking the definition of boomers as those born between '46 and '60, she wrote:


"Finally, on behalf of the baby-boom generation, I would like to hear a little round of applause before we cede the stage to the people who were too young to go to Woodstock and would appreciate not having to listen to the stories about it anymore. It looks as though we will be represented in history by only two presidents, one of whom is George W. Bush. Bummer.

The boomers didn’t win any wars and that business about being self-involved was not entirely unfounded. On the other hand, they made the nation get serious about the idea of everybody being created equal. And now American children are going to grow up unaware that there’s anything novel in an African-American president or a woman running for the White House.

We’ll settle for that."

 

[JMohegan]

Wait a minute, that does not look right, at all.

I don't care enough to do the math, but this does not look like it would result in the greater then exponential population growth that we are seeing.

am I missing something here?

U.S. population growth is driven by the birth rate, and by people like you.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...th-in-u-s-metro-areas-as-wage-gap-widens.html

 

[midwestyankee]

I was born in '58, and watched the 60's unfold with my parents - whom I obviously relied on to explain what was going on. So for me it was never a "don't trust older people" thing. Instead, events got translated, in my kid-brain, as good guy/bad guy conflicts.

The president was assassinated when I was in kindergarten. My mother cried, my father stood there in silent fury, and I felt really bad for the president's kids.

<snip>


I was 12 when those students got shot at Kent State, but for some reason I didn't find it all that shocking. I already knew that bad guys sometimes dress in uniforms, and since I wasn't in college yet, I never took it personally.

JM, this post reminds me of a novel I read several years ago. I can't recall the title or the author (it was your typical bought-on-remainder item) but the plot followed a reporter for Life Magazine from mid-January 1968 through to September. He was an eyewitness to all of the big events of that year, and at the climax was jailed for "participating" in the Chicago convention riots. It was probably 15 years afterward that I read the book and it still stunned me. What a horrific year in our history.

 

[intothewoods]

No they didn't. Not even close.

Eek, I missed this the first time. Totally agree!

 

[rida]

I was born in north Italy in 1968. My family was somewhat atypical as my father was a blue collar worker that moved up do to his willingness to travel the world (hence he met my mom) and my mom was among the first Japanese marrying out of Japan.

We lived in an industrial town where most of the people were local by generations and generations (often distant cousins) or moved from not too far anyway. I went to a semi-private somewhat highly unconventional Catholic sisters' School and I remember how novel it felt when a couple of kids that moved from South Italy got in our class in 5th grade. (Now most primary school have at least 50% immigrant from Africa or East Europe).

I had a pretty sheltered life all in all. I remember the oil shock in the 70's not because I followed the news but because my dad lost his job just around my sister was born and my mom started working.

TV show (sitcoms and cartoons) were imported or copied from the US and at least 10 to 20 years old. I remember when the firs Japanese cartoon made it to Italian TV and when finally cute stationary hit the stores (I had seen the cartoon and owned the cute stationary from my trips to Japan). I was one of the last kid with a color TV (nothing got upgraded until it died) but the first kids with cartoon characters T-shirts and pocket video-games. Although all I wanted were the dolls and junk toys like the other kids (I was tired of sticking out all the time.)

I remember the first gulf war mainly because my mid school teacher was big into media communication and got us to listen to radio bulletin news in class. Italy also had turbulent years with the Red Brigades terrorists but those events were somehow distant from my life (in spite of a major bombing in my hometown).

I was in high school during the 80s. In school there would be the leftist student group (wanna-be 68' revolutionary) and the catholic youth one that were politically active. And the rest of the kids would be either the new created middle class wealthy kids characterized by following the latest fashion trends and brands (in those days they were called Paninari and would wear Monclair Bomber jackets, cropped jeans to show off their checkered British taste socks and Timberland shoes, and gather with their scooters and mopped in Panini joint - the Italian analogous of burger joints), or the rest of the kids, a mixture of the first generation geeks (I was co-owner of used Olivetti Desktop with 4 other class mates), the punks, the stoners, and the hard-working and studious ones.

There were demos from time to time, but beside the highly politicized leftist students or religious ones, for us was just an excuse to skip classes and most of us rarely bothered to show up to the marches and sits-in.

My group of friend in college was a similar mixture of leftist kids, more conservative kids, just in for a good time kids, and we would get together to play D&D or go out to the different clubs, choosing accordingly to the band playing and not the political affiliation of the place (due to the bloody history of my college town, clubs had to be members only and they were either affiliated with the Conservative Party & religious youth or the Communist Party - we had membership cards for almost all the clubs and the best one was actually a predominately gay club).

When they blew up Falcone (the biggest persecutor of Mafia) it was a huge event in Italy. And looking back to it in retrospective, instead of mobilitating the political forces to fight harder, it gave them back power in the government.

I've been living away for over 16 years now.
When I was in college it seemed to me that Italy was starting to get its act together, fighting corruption and the south was slowly trying to get out of its backward and strangled by organized crime ways.
Now when I go back things are not better at all. Mostly unchanged and perhaps worse in many ways. The sense is that everyone tries to make it on their own, hoping not to need to go through any of the government channels. (And my hometown is still among the wealthy and good ones.).

 

[FloggingMolly]

I should imagine the increased population is more tied to how many of those babies actually survived childhood and went on to have kids also?

 

[00Syd]

You know, it's not the children of the generation's fault.

It's the parents.

It's the OTT PCness these days. I truly think it has gone too far.

Argh.

In all honesty, I think the outrage over the "over the top PCness" of these days that's gone a little too far. It's annoying for sure, but it's just not that big of a deal. And I hardly think it's the thing that's going to have some horrendously adverse affect on the current gen.

 

[Netzach]

I was born in north Italy in 1968. My family was somewhat atypical as my father was a blue collar worker that moved up do to his willingness to travel the world (hence he met my mom) and my mom was among the first Japanese marrying out of Japan.

We lived in an industrial town where most of the people were local by generations and generations (often distant cousins) or moved from not too far anyway. I went to a semi-private somewhat highly unconventional Catholic sisters' School and I remember how novel it felt when a couple of kids that moved from South Italy got in our class in 5th grade. (Now most primary school have at least 50% immigrant from Africa or East Europe).

I had a pretty sheltered life all in all. I remember the oil shock in the 70's not because I followed the news but because my dad lost his job just around my sister was born and my mom started working.

TV show (sitcoms and cartoons) were imported or copied from the US and at least 10 to 20 years old. I remember when the firs Japanese cartoon made it to Italian TV and when finally cute stationary hit the stores (I had seen the cartoon and owned the cute stationary from my trips to Japan). I was one of the last kid with a color TV (nothing got upgraded until it died) but the first kids with cartoon characters T-shirts and pocket video-games. Although all I wanted were the dolls and junk toys like the other kids (I was tired of sticking out all the time.)

I remember the first gulf war mainly because my mid school teacher was big into media communication and got us to listen to radio bulletin news in class. Italy also had turbulent years with the Red Brigades terrorists but those events were somehow distant from my life (in spite of a major bombing in my hometown).

I was in high school during the 80s. In school there would be the leftist student group (wanna-be 68' revolutionary) and the catholic youth one that were politically active. And the rest of the kids would be either the new created middle class wealthy kids characterized by following the latest fashion trends and brands (in those days they were called Paninari and would wear Monclair Bomber jackets, cropped jeans to show off their checkered British taste socks and Timberland shoes, and gather with their scooters and mopped in Panini joint - the Italian analogous of burger joints), or the rest of the kids, a mixture of the first generation geeks (I was co-owner of used Olivetti Desktop with 4 other class mates), the punks, the stoners, and the hard-working and studious ones.

There were demos from time to time, but beside the highly politicized leftist students or religious ones, for us was just an excuse to skip classes and most of us rarely bothered to show up to the marches and sits-in.

My group of friend in college was a similar mixture of leftist kids, more conservative kids, just in for a good time kids, and we would get together to play D&D or go out to the different clubs, choosing accordingly to the band playing and not the political affiliation of the place (due to the bloody history of my college town, clubs had to be members only and they were either affiliated with the Conservative Party & religious youth or the Communist Party - we had membership cards for almost all the clubs and the best one was actually a predominately gay club).

When they blew up Falcone (the biggest persecutor of Mafia) it was a huge event in Italy. And looking back to it in retrospective, instead of mobilitating the political forces to fight harder, it gave them back power in the government.

I've been living away for over 16 years now.
When I was in college it seemed to me that Italy was starting to get its act together, fighting corruption and the south was slowly trying to get out of its backward and strangled by organized crime ways.
Now when I go back things are not better at all. Mostly unchanged and perhaps worse in many ways. The sense is that everyone tries to make it on their own, hoping not to need to go through any of the government channels. (And my hometown is still among the wealthy and good ones.).

This and CP's Thatcherite post are totally interesting to me.

 

[Netzach]

In all honesty, I think the outrage over the "over the top PCness" of these days that's gone a little too far. It's annoying for sure, but it's just not that big of a deal. And I hardly think it's the thing that's going to have some horrendously adverse affect on the current gen.

What exactly is PC? Is it this horrifying new fangled notion that you should call people what they want to be called? That you can't make a workplace uncomfortable for people?

Shock horror.

Sorry it's uncomfortable for you, it might be a lot better for other people who have been waiting their turn.

 

[JMohegan]

Eek, I missed this the first time. Totally agree!

Yeah, as false equivalencies go, that one was a whopper. And quite revealing.

I should imagine the increased population is more tied to how many of those babies actually survived childhood and went on to have kids also?

It depends which years you're comparing.

 

[Netzach]

No they didn't. Not even close.

Data roundup:


The Black Panthers, vilified most widely of the various organizations, might be responsible for 15-18 maybe 20 deaths.


The Klan had three waves of formation, and lynched multitudes of blacks as well a the periodic labor leader, immigrant, Jew or other white seen as friendly to blacks.


In 51-52 alone the Klan firebombed the homes of 40 southern families whose offense was *skirting the conventions of racism* alone.

 

[Netzach]

I'm at the bottom of DVS's chart. Kids born in the '30's were the loneliest generation. Things were so bad people would do anything to keep from having kids. When I graduated from high school there were 48 people in my class. Five years later there were 600 and the town really hadn't changed at all.

I actually remember Pearl Harbor. My earliest years were consumed with news from North Africa and the Pacific. There were almost no men around. I had an older step-brother fighting in N Africa against Rommel's Panzer corp. Most of my cousins and uncles were all over the world. My mother worked in a shell plant. She received the defective shells that the inspectors rejected. They were loaded into a large steel cylinder and a safe like door was screwed shut and a detonator switch exploded them. After an interval the door was opened and the debris removed.

My father had a bad heart and worked at a foundry that made things like ship propeller blades -- they were unbelievable large. In the early forties we were nowhere near Europe -- the only thing standing in the way of The Third Reich was the USSR, so no one said any bad things about the Russians. Later -- during the Berlin Airlift -- people began to talk about the Russians as if they were daemons. I couldn't understand they so quickly went from being really good friends to devils. Of course, in the late thirties and early forties many people thought that if we won the war it might be a good thing for the US to become a communist country. Capitalism didn't too many defenders in those days.

Of course, when it came to the real devils, their handiwork was on full display in the later 40's. I remember following all the developments of the Nuremberg War Crimes trials and there were the horrible pictures of the gas chamber, the ovens, and the open pit mass graves. Plus, piles of bodies that looked like skeletons with skin.

Yeah, I guess you could say that we figured if we were alive and had something to eat, we could make it for another day. Not a happy time.

This is really incredible and we're lucky to have this perspective in our pervert midst.

My FIL is somewhere in this bracket. He grew up in rural MN and not starving was quite the high priority to-do on a given day.

 

[Keroin]

This and CP's Thatcherite post are totally interesting to me.

I'm actually really interested in all the responses from anyone outside of the US and Canada. I mean, when we think of Boomers, Gen X and Gen Y, those are very N American terms. How the rest of the world defines each generation is mostly a mystery to me.

 

[JMohegan]

Data roundup:


The Black Panthers, vilified most widely of the various organizations, might be responsible for 15-18 maybe 20 deaths.


The Klan had three waves of formation, and lynched multitudes of blacks as well a the periodic labor leader, immigrant, Jew or other white seen as friendly to blacks.


In 51-52 alone the Klan firebombed the homes of 40 southern families whose offense was *skirting the conventions of racism* alone.

And let's not forget why the Black Panthers armed themselves in the first place. And who they picked as targets (the cops).

It's not just the numbers. It's the point and purpose, as you know.

 

[MisterSir]

I don't know how my generation is known over here, but I think back over the major incidents of the decade and all I can conclude is that we're going to remembered for wars and terrorism. Wars, terrorism, and some of the most appalling leadership in recorded history.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't know how my generation is known over here, but I think back over the major incidents of the decade and all I can conclude is that we're going to remembered for wars and terrorism. Wars, terrorism, and some of the most appalling leadership in recorded history.

Do Brits give names to generations? If so, I hope you pick better ones than we do. 'Baby boomers' makes sense, but 'Gen X' and 'Gen Y' are just goofy.

Recent leaders don't count as members of your generation, btw. In the US, both Brown and Blair would be considered Boomers.

What's your opinion of Cameron?

 

[Keroin]

I'm at the bottom of DVS's chart. Kids born in the '30's were the loneliest generation. Things were so bad people would do anything to keep from having kids. When I graduated from high school there were 48 people in my class. Five years later there were 600 and the town really hadn't changed at all.

I actually remember Pearl Harbor. My earliest years were consumed with news from North Africa and the Pacific. There were almost no men around. I had an older step-brother fighting in N Africa against Rommel's Panzer corp. Most of my cousins and uncles were all over the world. My mother worked in a shell plant. She received the defective shells that the inspectors rejected. They were loaded into a large steel cylinder and a safe like door was screwed shut and a detonator switch exploded them. After an interval the door was opened and the debris removed.

My father had a bad heart and worked at a foundry that made things like ship propeller blades -- they were unbelievable large. In the early forties we were nowhere near Europe -- the only thing standing in the way of The Third Reich was the USSR, so no one said any bad things about the Russians. Later -- during the Berlin Airlift -- people began to talk about the Russians as if they were daemons. I couldn't understand they so quickly went from being really good friends to devils. Of course, in the late thirties and early forties many people thought that if we won the war it might be a good thing for the US to become a communist country. Capitalism didn't too many defenders in those days.

Of course, when it came to the real devils, their handiwork was on full display in the later 40's. I remember following all the developments of the Nuremberg War Crimes trials and there were the horrible pictures of the gas chamber, the ovens, and the open pit mass graves. Plus, piles of bodies that looked like skeletons with skin.

Yeah, I guess you could say that we figured if we were alive and had something to eat, we could make it for another day. Not a happy time.

I really don't want to let this slip by. Yours is a perspective we don't get to hear often enough, TG. Thanks for contributing.

I'm very curious how you view the generations that followed yours. I would imagine it would be difficult not to see the kids of today as incredibly self-centered and spoiled, given your experience.

What do you think when you look out at the world now?

 

[Keroin]

I wonder how many people of my generation remember this film? It was a VERY big deal at the time and I watched it in a social studies class in Junior High.

ETA: You can watch it on the NFB website.

 

[midwestyankee]

Do Brits give names to generations? If so, I hope you pick better ones than we do. 'Baby boomers' makes sense, but 'Gen X' and 'Gen Y' are just goofy.

Recent leaders don't count as members of your generation, btw. In the US, both Brown and Blair would be considered Boomers.

What's your opinion of Cameron?

Interestingly, Great Britain has now turned to a pair of men who are younger still than President Obama.

 

[midwestyankee]

I wonder how many people of my generation remember this film? It was a VERY big deal at the time and I watched it in a social studies class in Junior High.

ETA: You can watch it on the NFB website.

I've never heard of this film, and I think I just discovered why (apart from the fact that in the early 80s I was too busy to go to the movies and didn't even own a television set): Reagan had the Justice Department declare the film "foreign political propaganda" and every distributor of the film was required to give to the Justice Department the name of every person who purchased a copy.

See more here.

 

[JMaxwell69]

I wonder how many people of my generation remember this film? It was a VERY big deal at the time and I watched it in a social studies class in Junior High.

ETA: You can watch it on the NFB website.

I don't think I've ever heard of it either.

 

[00Syd]

I wonder how many people of my generation remember this film? It was a VERY big deal at the time and I watched it in a social studies class in Junior High.

ETA: You can watch it on the NFB website.

Never heard of it. But I watched "An Inconvenient Truth" in high school science.

 

[Keroin]

I've never heard of this film, and I think I just discovered why (apart from the fact that in the early 80s I was too busy to go to the movies and didn't even own a television set): Reagan had the Justice Department declare the film "foreign political propaganda" and every distributor of the film was required to give to the Justice Department the name of every person who purchased a copy.

See more here.

I don't think I've ever heard of it either.

Never heard of it. But I watched "An Inconvenient Truth" in high school science.

The film was produced by the NFB (Canada's National Film Board) and was eventually broadcast on Canadian TV. It was the "Inconvenient Truth" of my generation, (in Canada), except far, far more frightening.

It was released at a time when global annihilation, by nuclear war, because of the ever-escalating arms race between the US and the USSR, was a very real possibility. We (Canada) were literally caught between two superpowers who seemed hellbent on destroying each other.

ETA: It won an academy award, BTW.