My generation

[DVS]

My white mid-American home-owning parents saw themselves are *part of* the civil rights movement. They didn't talk about what "the blacks" were trying to achieve. They talked about the changes that "we" were working to bring about.

What bothered them most about Carmichael was that he didn't want their help. They said they understood why he didn't, but I'm not sure they ever really did.

My family lived in a very small town. There were only two black families living there at the time. There was no civil rights movement there. There were no clashes with police in that small town, no blacks getting beat up, nobody shooting at anybody. There also was no KKK in that town. There were no extremists spewing hate and nobody burning buildings.

I pretty much knew everybody in that small town, when I was going up. Those black families were seen the same as anybody else in that town. I don't think anybody saw the civil rights movement as their personal fight, but if someone had come in and tried to hurt those two black families, there would have been a lot of white people there to stop them.

I went to school along side the kids in those families. Both families were the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. They weren't treated as the token blacks of our town. They were the Jacksons and the Wilsons. That's the middle America I'm familiar with. No hate, no color. Everybody getting along.

 

[JMohegan]

Movies like "A Time to Kill" "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Mississippi Burning", were good examples of how the times were. Blacks were lower class citizens than whites. It wasn't so much thought that, but it was just understood. Blacks were kept in "their place". Eventually, there were riots where police would break up the riots with high pressure water hoses. I remember scenes like those on the evening news quite often. You'd see a young black kid literally getting blown down the street by high pressure water stream.

My family lived in a very small town. There were only two black families living there at the time. There was no civil rights movement there. There were no clashes with police in that small town, no blacks getting beat up, nobody shooting at anybody. There also was no KKK in that town. There were no extremists spewing hate and nobody burning buildings.

I pretty much knew everybody in that small town, when I was going up. Those black families were seen the same as anybody else in that town. I don't think anybody saw the civil rights movement as their personal fight, but if someone had come in and tried to hurt those two black families, there would have been a lot of white people there to stop them.

I went to school along side the kids in those families. Both families were the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. They weren't treated as the token blacks of our town. They were the Jacksons and the Wilsons. That's the middle America I'm familiar with. No hate, no color. Everybody getting along.

Quite a contrast, isn't it? The difference between the America you described in your first post, and the America in the neighborhood where you grew up.

I grew up in a suburb near a large, northern east coast city. No crime, no riots, no violence in my neighborhood either. As for racism, well, compared to what was going on in the south it was a lot more subtle. At the time, in that place, apathy was probably the most common way in which it manifested itself.

 

[DVS]

Quite a contrast, isn't it? The difference between the America you described in your first post, and the America in the neighborhood where you grew up.

I grew up in a suburb near a large, northern east coast city. No crime, no riots, no violence in my neighborhood either. As for racism, well, compared to what was going on in the south it was a lot more subtle. At the time, in that place, apathy was probably the most common way in which it manifested itself.

In everything, there will be a scale of best to worst case. Human nature is no different. what I described in my first post was what was seen on TV and what was actually happening in other parts of the country at the time. That was the worst case.

What was going on in my small town was far removed from the large city. That was the best case. There was no KKK, no Black Panthers and no water cannons. We were on the outside looking in. What we saw was repulsive, gut wrenching, sickening violent behavior.

Over and over, night after night, it was the same thing on TV news. And nothing seemed to change because of it. Riots, burning buildings, fighting with police, bombing established businesses eventually became the norm. After a while, I wonder if some of those involved were asking themselves if it all was doing any good or was it just the thing to do because it was what everybody was doing.

Violence only begets more violence. And after both sides get so deeply involved, it becomes more of a revenge thing. And it escalates as it goes. We see it in the gangs of today. Vindictive retaliation to prove we're tougher then the other guy. Once and for all, we'll show them...but it never stops.

The only thing that stops it is one side is wiped out, or gives up. Give up isn't in the mindset of someone who feels they have been victimized for too long. Give up only means they will be victimized more.

From our small mid-western town we understood the hate and the pain of the black community and we knew there needed to be a change. And although we condemned the violence in our own minds, we also understood the desperation behind it.

If Martin Luther King had survived, I think it might be a different world, today. I know why he was murdered. And I know he knew it was probably only a matter of time before someone would follow through with the death threats.

But he didn't condone the violence. He wanted the change to be peaceful. He knew it wouldn't be easy to change the mind of a racist white. But those racist whites saw him as the black leader and so they also saw him as the head of the snake. Cut off the head of the snake, and he can't bite you. Not a rational analogy but a mind set on violence doesn't think rationally.

Many blacks today still believe in and follow Dr. King's methods. I'd like to think that most blacks do. But, there are still those who have hatred and vengeance in their hearts. Not for those racist whites of the 60s, but for all whites...just because they are white.

And there are whites that feel the same way about blacks. It has nothing to do with the person, just the color of their skin. Nothing has changed, even after all of the riots, lynchings, cross burnings and church bombings. It's still festering in the hearts of those who still believe in it.

It could all come back again. The riots, the murders, the bombings... Only those who experienced it in the 60s know it's not the way. When all of those people have died, who will be here to stop it?

 

[DVS]

Yeah, yeah. Don' throw me in da briar patch.

You know...we had a briar patch in our back yard. We had a black raspberry patch that was about 10 foot by 30 foot at the back of our yard. I was in heaven. Needless to say, my fingers were often stained with the dark juices of those things.

My parents tore it all out, one day. I didn't understand it. The berries were gone and what did we have to show for it? Just another section of yard, 10X30 feet, that I had to mow is all! But, I digress...

I know what a briar patch is. And there are no cookies in there.

 

[JMohegan]

In everything, there will be a scale of best to worst case. Human nature is no different. what I described in my first post was what was seen on TV and what was actually happening in other parts of the country at the time. That was the worst case.

What was going on in my small town was far removed from the large city. That was the best case. There was no KKK, no Black Panthers and no water cannons. We were on the outside looking in. What we saw was repulsive, gut wrenching, sickening violent behavior.

Over and over, night after night, it was the same thing on TV news. And nothing seemed to change because of it. Riots, burning buildings, fighting with police, bombing established businesses eventually became the norm. After a while, I wonder if some of those involved were asking themselves if it all was doing any good or was it just the thing to do because it was what everybody was doing.

If you lived in the middle of nowhere, and all you had for information was a 3-channel television, I can understand why you'd have this view of the 60's struggle for justice. Then, as now, that which is most incendiary and salacious makes it on TV. The more mundane forms of political activism rarely got national coverage.

What you describe as "the norm," I would describe as sporadic. And having actually seen the conditions in which the urban poor lived, I didn't wonder why they rioted. I wondered why they didn't riot more often.

If Martin Luther King had survived, I think it might be a different world, today.

Maybe. But you know, ironically, Ray made King immortal.

In any case, many African American leaders sustained the non-violent struggle for justice. Here's a trip down memory lane, encased in humor -

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/148029/january-22-2008/it-s-all-about-stephen

 

[DVS]

If you lived in the middle of nowhere, and all you had for information was a 3-channel television, I can understand why you'd have this view of the 60's struggle for justice. Then, as now, that which is most incendiary and salacious makes it on TV. The more mundane forms of political activism rarely got national coverage.

What you describe as "the norm," I would describe as sporadic. And having actually seen the conditions in which the urban poor lived, I didn't wonder why they rioted. I wondered why they didn't riot more often.

Of course we in fly over country didn't know anything. What you call the middle of nowhere was actually middle America. Small town people that didn't share in the violence. We had no racial issues. We had neighbors.

And by the way, there were 4 channels. And if what we saw on TV was just the most incendiary and salacious, there was sure enough of it to fill a significant portion of the evening news every night.

Maybe. But you know, ironically, Ray made King immortal.

In any case, many African American leaders sustained the non-violent struggle for justice.

Don't lessen the man's potential by saying some low life made him immortal. King didn't need immortality. I wonder how he might have made a difference, if he had been given the chance to continue. We'll never know the answer to that. Instead, he's just another casualty of the violent 60s.

And the names of others who fought for civil rights are not unfamiliar to me. But King had a dream.

 

[JMohegan]

Of course we in fly over country didn't know anything. What you call the middle of nowhere was actually middle America. Small town people that didn't share in the violence. We had no racial issues. We had neighbors.

And by the way, there were 4 channels. And if what we saw on TV was just the most incendiary and salacious, there was sure enough of it to fill a significant portion of the evening news every night.Don't lessen the man's potential by saying some low life made him immortal. King didn't need immortality. I wonder how he might have made a difference, if he had been given the chance to continue. We'll never know the answer to that. Instead, he's just another casualty of the violent 60s.

And the names of others who fought for civil rights are not unfamiliar to me. But King had a dream.

I didn't say you knew nothing. I said you only knew what you saw, and what you saw of whatever was going on outside your small town was what you saw on TV, and that TV distorts reality in large measure.

 

[Netzach]

M is from a nice little suburb in the racially tolerant and enlightened Twin Cities.

His suburb was a "sundown community" until the mid 80s. Like 85.

(That is a place where your black or brown ass had better be out by sundown.)

EIGHTY FIVE

"Not one negro nor one Jew" was the gentleman's agreement selling houses.

His parents lived on the wrong side of the tracks in this little burb and had neighbors who technically were not supposed to have been able to buy houses there. But a lot of his classmates a little ways over - their parents were well aware and well complicit in this.

So I really question any time anyone says "we had no racial issues." M's parents might have said "we have no racial issues" because they weren't in the social circle that did.

There's a hell of a lot of *stuff* going on in small midwestern communities, some of it stereotype-defying good some of it stereotype-defying bad.