My dilemma

[niteshade]

Ok, I know this is gonna shock and amaze some folks, but I have a serious question.
Hang with me, I do have a point and will eventually get to it.

The last several months, I have been learning a lot about myself. I am still not completely comfortable with all of it (ok, most of it) but I am accepting that there are pieces of me that will not be satisfied by what most people consider “normal.” Here lately, I have allowed… No, craved… having things done to me that 6 months ago would have been unthinkable. I still have trouble with the fact that I can’t seem to let go of this need I have discovered in myself. I spent so very long (the last 10 years) learning to be strong… why do I now feel the need to be helpless?

I am facing another dilemma now, because I have been very curious about trying more intense things, like spanking or floggings. I have been told several times, by several different people, that I must remember that these actions, when done in the BDSM context, are supposed to be consensual, done with love and trust. I understand that, but this is still a dilemma because of some stuff in my past. I am afraid that I will hurt someone… and afraid that if we do it with me bound, that I will hurt myself, mentally. Let me explain why.

My stepfather abused me when I was a teenager… he loved to do things to humiliate me, his favorite being to spank or beat me. He beat my mom, mentally terrorized all of us. He did that from the time I was 7 until I turned 13. That summer, I broke my leg, so I was on crutches all the time. One of the girls at school decided that it would be fun to beat up on me because I obviously could not do anything about it, but what happened was really scary. She hit me a few times… and I blacked out. I apparently dropped my crutches and proceeded to beat her so badly that I knocked out a tooth, and put her in the hospital with a concussion… after chasing her around the cafeteria on a leg that I should not have been able to stand on. I don’t remember any of it, except the first time she hit me.

A few weeks later, my stepfather decided to administer some discipline, and it happened again. I blacked out… and when I came back around, my 6’2 stepfather was laying on the floor, in a daze because I had slammed him into a wall nearly hard enough to knock him out, and broken his nose. I am 5’2. I was still wearing a cast. I should not have been able to do that.

That was the last time anyone hit me… and I am very careful now to keep my temper. What I am afraid of is that if I go exploring the way I want to, I might freak out and hurt my partner. I am afraid that if he ties me up to do it, I won’t be able to handle it, that I will really harm myself mentally. But… It is like this ache in me to try it, to see if I can beat that too. To see if I can rip pleasure from something that scares me, that has awful memories for me.

I know that there are others of you here who were subjected to violence when you were younger…
I guess what I am asking is, how did you overcome it? What did you tell yourself that allowed you to find the pleasure in the deeds? Do you still find yourself thinking you are crazy to enjoy actions that are so parallel to experiences that were so far the opposite of pleasure?

I realize that you guys can’t fix me, if indeed I am broken… I would just like your thoughts on the subject, in the hopes that by talking about it I may find a solution.

Thanks,
Niteshade

 

[catalina_francisco]

The issues you are going through in your mind are not that unusual, but also are not that easily answered in the short term. It would be great for you to be able to find a lifestyle friendly counsellor you trusted who could help you work through all this and find the answers that are even now within you. As difficult as it may be, I would encourage you to do this if possible. It is not that you are broken, but you have questions you want answered and this is a good way to do it to allow you to move on in peace and safety.

There are a myriad of reasons why you may be attracted to the lifestyle as you are, maybe even simply that you like it with no connection to your past at all. It could also in part be that subconsciously you are drawn to it with someone you can trust, in an effort to relive the past, perhaps to regain a better understanding of what happened for you, or perhaps to relive the events in a more controlled and safe environment where you can in a way be sure of the outcome for you....a type of rewriting the story. I hope you find your answers.

Catalina

 

[InnerDarkness]

I, too, think this is more common than you might realize...maybe not the blacking out and retailiating like you described, but I think there are a fair amount of people who have had trauma in their past and are now part of the lifestyle...I am not indicating causation here, but simply that many of us have these painful pasts as well.

I remember one of the first posts I read and posted to about a rape fantasy (which happens to be one of my "things")...many of the people posted who had talked about how they experienced childhood sexual molestation or even adult sexual assualt and yet still had this fantasy...some described it as Catalina did...as a way of rewriting their own story...for me...as I did experience molestation as a child, it is a way of regaining that control even tho I am the sub and the one who would be raped or "ravished" in the fantasy...

I guess what I am getting at is that this is likely something you can overcome simply because you will have so much more control over this than you realize. You will be a willing participant rather than the victim of unwanted physical agression. I am sure it will be a difficult process, and help from a therapist would likely be the best course, but with that, an open mind and a trustworthy open partner who knows you and knows your reactions, you can likely get through this...

slow and steady wins the race in my book

Good luck

 

[bunny bondage]

i really wish i had the time and brainpower to do a study into bdsm'ers and a history of abuse. it's true with me as well, and the parallels between what happened to me as a child and what i enjoy experienceing now used to really freak me out.

but the way i see it, this is how i am hard-wired. i can accept it or not; it's my choice to be happy. and i've found that the feelings are completely different when it's in a bdsm context. i'm no longer TRULY helpless. i'm not in the hands of someone evil and without a heart, i'm with someone who loves me and wouldn't want to psycologically harm me.

i wish you the best of luck, and remember - there's no reason not to go as SLOW as you want! take ALL the time you feel you need!

 

[niteshade]

Thanks you guys... I was sure that there had to be others who had the same type of experiences. I was just wondering how y'all worked through it.

I might consider a counselor, if I thought I could find one that isn't wacked. I went to counseling a few times when I was younger, but it didn't help...I am sure there are good counselors our there, but I don't know where to find them; the ones I saw where ignorant.

I am not sure what my motivation is for being so attracted to aspects of the bdsm lifestyle... I can say that I think it started before I knew my stepfather, and I just suppressed it for the longest time. I do think that a lot of the need I have is based on the fact that this is the only area of my life that it is still affecting... and I didn't even know it.

My main concern is the worry that I will hurt him, but not mean to. Do you think that if he is expecting it, he will have an easier time defending himself, if something like that does happen?

Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening before? I did talk to some counselors about it in my late teens, but as I mentioned, they were ignorant. The first two told me that it wasn't possible for what I described to have happened, and the third that I was straight out lying to him. I kind of just left it alone after that, and am always careful to keep myself in firm control... I put it in the back of my mind until very recently. LOL... I think I will go do a goggle search and see what I find.

 

[ReadyOne]

Yes, you need to share that part of your past with your playmate before your play. Days before you first play.

And of course, you both can make better physical preparations if you choose (quality of restraints comes to mind for one thing).

BDSM seems to work best if top can "be inside" bottoms head. You've got to be especially carefully to prepare your playmate so that they can really follow you where you might go. You need to both understand what can happen in your head and prepare in advance to deal with the situtations you fear may arise.

It's faily easy to recognize when a play partner could be in physical danger and take steps to avoid and aleviate it. (Circulation checks and bandage scissors come to mind).

You've got an extra responsability to get your playmate prepared to recognize when you are in mental danger and have a plan to deal with it in place.

Please don't be scared; just be prepared.

PS: The number of unqualified consolers out there is incredible! And the egos they have, thinking that they know everything about life and people!

 

[Quint]

PS: The number of unqualified consolers out there is incredible! And the egos they have, thinking that they know everything about life and people!

But on the other hand, there are some terrific ones that may be right in front of your face. T has had excellent experience with therapists for the past two years; they have helped him in innumerable ways. I highly recommend you put this on your "must do" list. It will be worth it.

Best wishes in everything.

 

[catalina_francisco]

But on the other hand, there are some terrific ones that may be right in front of your face. T has had excellent experience with therapists for the past two years; they have helped him in innumerable ways. I highly recommend you put this on your "must do" list. It will be worth it.

Best wishes in everything.

As a counsellor, I can echo the sentiments from both sides in regard to counsellors and therapists...but like all of us, they are just human, not the super beings many expect them to be. Shit happens in everyone's life, and just as it is difficult for ost people to deal with when they are in the centre of it. So it is with professionals. The good ones are not there to tell you what to do, but are duty bound to help you seek your own solutions which fit your life from your own experiences and reality.

That being said, there are some open minded professionals out there. Best thing to remember is you have a right as a consumer to be respected, and not be judged based on their value system. If they don't deliver, talk with them if you feel comfortable with that, or seek another. My experience has been that many feminist counsellors are likely to give an unbiased response with open mind to help you find your own answers....similarly, there are some male counsellors who practice pro-feminist, or non-discriminatory methods, who also keep an open mind in the interests of best practice...is just a matter of sorting through the shit to find the gold. Good luck.

 

[slvjenn]

Well thankfully i've never had the experiences that you describe. So this is only an observation based on speculation of that end of things.

Abuse, outright fistfights and the like really aren't the same as any form of BDSM i've been involved in.

Those things happen fast and with a rush of different mixtures of chemicals than BDSM. I'm sure that some people like to have their play where the dominant truely overpowers and binds his submissive, but again, that is nothing I've ever done.

Things happen slower. You are able to watch as he puts whatever binding he has chosen around your wrists or ankles. You climb up on top of his legs, exposing your bottom to him.

I use the word YOU, but it should be *I*. I make that choice to get into a position to be spanked, or bound or whatever. That is what really gets me going more than the act itself.

It seems to me that if you can not remember the things that you did, for whatever reason that may be, at least one of those reasons was because the thing that was happening to you was something you didn't want. Your mind took care of the situation in the best way it could.

In contrast, if you decide to be bound, or spanked, flogged, whipped, whatever...It is something that you are concenting to. You should know that if you so chose, you could safeword and it would stop.

To me linking violence or abuse of any kind is a sharp contrast to BDSM.

If you look up violence you'll see words such as outrage, fervor, untaimed, crimes, and abuse. None of which I associate with any form of BDSM. If you feel the same way I suspect that you will react in a much different manner.

All of the precautions suggested above are still true, prepare for the possibility that you just might click into that defensive mode.

 

[niteshade]

As a counsellor, I can echo the sentiments from both sides in regard to counsellors and therapists...but like all of us, they are just human, not the super beings many expect them to be. Shit happens in everyone's life, and just as it is difficult for ost people to deal with when they are in the centre of it. So it is with professionals. The good ones are not there to tell you what to do, but are duty bound to help you seek your own solutions which fit your life from your own experiences and reality.

That being said, there are some open minded professionals out there. Best thing to remember is you have a right as a consumer to be respected, and not be judged based on their value system. If they don't deliver, talk with them if you feel comfortable with that, or seek another. My experience has been that many feminist counsellors are likely to give an unbiased response with open mind to help you find your own answers....similarly, there are some male counsellors who practice pro-feminist, or non-discriminatory methods, who also keep an open mind in the interests of best practice...is just a matter of sorting through the shit to find the gold. Good luck.

Do you have any advice on locating one? I really do not want to start baring my soul to someone who is going to tell me I am sick because I like having my hair pulled, or being forced to my knees to give a bj. No offense to yourself, but after the ones I have talked to, I am leery of trying again.

 

[Seattle Zack]

There is an association called Kink Aware Professionals, not just therapists but doctors, lawyers, even computer repairmen. Several of the kinksters I know here in Seattle have reported some success finding sympathetic counselors and doctors through the listings on this site.

Wishing you well
--Zack

 

[niteshade]

There is an association called Kink Aware Professionals, not just therapists but doctors, lawyers, even computer repairmen. Several of the kinksters I know here in Seattle have reported some success finding sympathetic counselors and doctors through the listings on this site.

Wishing you well
--Zack

Thanks.

 

[SexyChele]

I think you will find an equal number of people involved in BDSM who have and have not experienced abuse in their lives. Of course, the hard part, in some cases, is defining abuse.

Anyway...

I would think that based on your past history there are some unresolved issues that need to be dealt with. As stated above, there are some excellent counselors out there and some less than excellent ones. Being honest from the beginning would be a good way to start - letting him/her know that you are investigating forms of what some call alternative lifestyles. If the counsellor has any biased opinion at that point, you know this is not the person for you and you can move on.

I would be cautious getting involved with floggings and spankings at this point, at least on a heavy scale. If you've black out before and caused a good deal of harm, it is possible to do again even though you know at one level that it is a secure and consenual activity. Your play partner might want to try a few very light slaps to see how you respond. It may be something that needs be eased into gradually, and perhaps with counseling.

I wish you luck with this. Past abuse issues can be hard to overcome and move beyond and I wish you sucess.

 

[Desdemona]

Therapy. Lots and lots of therapy. That is how I resolved my issues and learned to accept my past so that I could move on. Good luck niteshade. This sort of thing is not easy.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Hi Des!!!!!!!

Niteshade is describing two entirely different scenarios. And maybe someone has already pointed this out and I am being redundant. I admit to not fully reading this thread.

When she blacked out and furiously attacked her aggressor, she was enraged, she had been attacked and hurt so she reacted to that.

In a bdsm scene, for most of us, it is not that way and should not be that way. It should be a loving, nurturing interaction and exchange. Hence, ones reaction to it would not be violent.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hi Des!!!!!!!

Niteshade is describing two entirely different scenarios. And maybe someone has already pointed this out and I am being redundant. I admit to not fully reading this thread.

When she blacked out and furiously attacked her aggressor, she was enraged, she had been attacked and hurt so she reacted to that.

In a bdsm scene, for most of us, it is not that way and should not be that way. It should be a loving, nurturing interaction and exchange. Hence, ones reaction to it would not be violent.

True, but I can understand her concern it may occur again in this context. Could be through flashbacks, though I gain a sense Nightshade is more concerned about total lack of control and subsequent reaction to the moment sparked by the scene more so than as a flashback reaction so to speak.

C

 

[niteshade]

True, but I can understand her concern it may occur again in this context. Could be through flashbacks, though I gain a sense Nightshade is more concerned about total lack of control and subsequent reaction to the moment sparked by the scene more so than as a flashback reaction so to speak.

C

Yes, that is pretty much it. N has done things like slap my ass while we were having sex, and lightly smacked my face once (it didn't hurt at all) and those things did not scare me or cause a negative reaction... indeed, he got just the response he was looking for.

But I am afraid more of the sensation of having an object strike me... that it will induce a flashback or whatever, and cause me to strike out as well. I want to thank everyone for their input, and for taking the time to answer me. Please, if you have any further observations keep them coming. Each response requires thought on my part, and I really believe that self examination will be the answer to this. It seems to have worked with most of my other issues.

I still may consider the therapy option, but really am wary of it. I looked up some names, and I think I will call and see if I can talk to them before going in person. No offense to Ms. Catalina, but I have meet too many quacks to be comfy with them as a whole. Too bad you live on another continent ma'am.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Talking to them upfront to get a feel of where their ethics lay is an excellent choice NS. If they are wary, explain you have had some bad experiences you do not wish to repeat, and I am sure most reputable therapists would understand and accomodate you. After all, it is not the easiest thing to do to take that first step to get counselling, twice as difficult if you have had bad experiences, and does not need to be impacted on by more.

It is an issue which gets to me everytime. I once worked under a woman who was not as highly qualified as I am, and had little insight into life, who instructed the staff to place any phone in suicide callers on hold for 10 minutes in the hope they will hang up. Her theory was they were conducting emotional blackmail and needed to be taught a lesson, and if they topped themselves, well just bad luck. Needless to say I dropped my usual manners and told her where to stick her ethics which I had already had a neck full of, and then also uncustomary for me unless absolutely necessary, took my complaint about her higher.

Catalina

 

[niteshade]

Talking to them upfront to get a feel of where their ethics lay is an excellent choice NS. If they are wary, explain you have had some bad experiences you do not wish to repeat, and I am sure most reputable therapists would understand and accomodate you. After all, it is not the easiest thing to do to take that first step to get counselling, twice as difficult if you have had bad experiences, and does not need to be impacted on by more.

It is an issue which gets to me everytime. I once worked under a woman who was not as highly qualified as I am, and had little insight into life, who instructed the staff to place any phone in suicide callers on hold for 10 minutes in the hope they will hang up. Her theory was they were conducting emotional blackmail and needed to be taught a lesson, and if they topped themselves, well just bad luck. Needless to say I dropped my usual manners and told her where to stick her ethics which I had already had a neck full of, and then also uncustomary for me unless absolutely necessary, took my complaint about her higher.

Catalina

See, that is just the kind of person I always seem to encounter. ARRRGGGGG.

 

[catalina_francisco]

See, that is just the kind of person I always seem to encounter. ARRRGGGGG.

Too many of them around. They seem to get an inflated sense of self/ego with the job position and forget it is not about them, their perceptions, their reality, and in truth they are there to serve the needs of others. No wonder she was scared of me as her supervisor shared with me....she had an issue with my honesty, and my ability and need to relate to the problems of my clients from their perspective, not mine.

Catalina

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I don't have much more to add to this thread; just some personal experiences that i feel might lend some insight to Nightshades question. I had been physically and sexually abused for most of my formative years. I kept the rage and hurt and pain pushed so far down inside that i felt absolutely NOTHING...for a very long period of time. When i discovered BDSM...i went into it as the controller, the owner, the one who did. It was not until i had my children and got involved in my first l/t relationship, that i realized my need to open up. It took hard work, therapy, crying jags, depression: you know the things that break you down and then allow you to rebuild.
I did not discover my deep-seated need to be hurt until almost 4 years ago. I was scared and frightened. Why would i want to put myself in this positon? Why would i want to allow someone to hurt me? Especially after i fought and struggled to heal myself from 15 years of abuse? The answer i found is still about control. The ability to open up and embrace a part of me that had been opened BECAUSE of the abuse.
Maybe it is not that way for everyone...maybe i am strange. Regardless, you can not know what the rituals and caring of BDSM can help you release until you meet someone with whom you feel comfortable enough to express yourself honestly and fully. The last 4 years have been therapy for me. Mayhap, Shade, with the right person...it could be that way for you as well.

anyway, just my 2 cents
pet

 

[niteshade]

I don't have much more to add to this thread; just some personal experiences that i feel might lend some insight to Nightshades question. I had been physically and sexually abused for most of my formative years. I kept the rage and hurt and pain pushed so far down inside that i felt absolutely NOTHING...for a very long period of time. When i discovered BDSM...i went into it as the controller, the owner, the one who did. It was not until i had my children and got involved in my first l/t relationship, that i realized my need to open up. It took hard work, therapy, crying jags, depression: you know the things that break you down and then allow you to rebuild.
I did not discover my deep-seated need to be hurt until almost 4 years ago. I was scared and frightened. Why would i want to put myself in this positon? Why would i want to allow someone to hurt me? Especially after i fought and struggled to heal myself from 15 years of abuse? The answer i found is still about control. The ability to open up and embrace a part of me that had been opened BECAUSE of the abuse.
Maybe it is not that way for everyone...maybe i am strange. Regardless, you can not know what the rituals and caring of BDSM can help you release until you meet someone with whom you feel comfortable enough to express yourself honestly and fully. The last 4 years have been therapy for me. Mayhap, Shade, with the right person...it could be that way for you as well.

anyway, just my 2 cents
pet

Pet, thank you soooo much for sharing that with me... that is exactly what I was trying to get to. How did you know that you were ready, though? How did you know that you could handle being hurt again, and not have it harm you in other ways? How do you reconcile the fact that you worked so hard to keep anyone from hurting you, but now you crave it? I am trying really hard to keep my respect for myself, and I think I am doing ok... realizing that I am stronger for facing the darker parts of me, of my needs... but it scares me.

P.s.... I am welcoming PMs if anyone has something to say that they don't want to state on the boards.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Niteshade...the questions you asked are difficult for me to answer. Not because of embarrassment or anything, but because i really don't KNOW. I had a Mistress who was stern but who LOVED me. She knew all about my past, she understood things about me that i had no clue about. She worked with me and pushed and tugged me until i got to where I needed to be. Was there ever a time when i felt scared, bewildered, bothered by it all? YES!! But she worked with me and helped me...until i got to where i have found myself now...a female who is in total control of herself, who relishes pain in all it's forms. My old Mistress and i parted ways because my needs were more masochistic then she wanted. There was no pain in our parting, only love and i now KNOW what i want and how to go about getting it. Do i think you will be as extreme as me? NO...mostly because i never lashed out...i never became enraged...i was too broken to do those things. Do i think by discovering where your urges lie in these things it wll help you to heal? Yes, i do. I know that it helped me. I also think with the love and repect of a good Owner, we as submissives can go much further and deeper than even we dreamed.

I guess what i am trying to say is this...i never really came to the conclusion by myself. I never sat down and thought *Geez, i wonder what it would feel like to allow someone to hurt me?* But when i started down the path of masochism, i realized that it touched something within me that had been cold and barren for far too long. I don't know how else to tell you about it, darlin...all i can say is it is a path that only you can walk, BUT i will gladly offer any insights and answers that i can give you from personal experience.

much love
pet

 

[Mr Blonde]

I would just talk it over with your dom and slowly ease into it. Also remember you do not have to explore all of your fantasies or thoughts.

Others will blast this statement, but having honest discussions with your boyfriend and venting to a supportive message board probably does more good than blindly trying to find a suitable therapist. It would be great if you had local BDSM people who could give you a definitive recommendation, but apart from that you would just be throwing darts at the phone book.

I agree with the person who said there is a difference between hostile fighting and BDSM. Let me explain my background.

I have two loving parents but because of economic problems I had to go to some very dangerous schools. It was almost a prison environment the way I had to not only fight off attackers but inflict additional pain to deter future situations. I had less to fear than others, but there was always the risk of getting jumped by ten people because they did not like your accent or skin color.

I cannot relate to "blackouts" but I had a very bad temper as a child. As twisted as it sounds, having a "short fuse" was probably a great defense mechanism in these hostile environments. I was strong and could be physically forceful.

When I began my first relationship as a dominant right after high school, I had to do some psychological introspection to understand the difference between violence and BDSM. I was also fairly worried that I would be way too forceful in the actual physical BDSM activities.

With a little experience I soon realized that BDSM is about intimacy/respect and not anger/fear. The BDSM energy comes from a different place; the feelings and sensations are different. And while an outsider might suggest that punching someone who is attacking you is somehow akin to spanking or flogging a submissive....it just isn't (at least for me).

Good luck, niteshade.

 

[DisGirlisNutz]

Let me first start by saying I am so sorry to what you had to go through... I am glad to hear you gave your step father a broken nose. He definitely deserved it and then some!

As for Flogging and spanking... There is no need for pain to be involved. Plain and simple. Have your partner that you trust flog or spank you gently at first. Slowly build it up.. not all in one session unless you give him permission to… Remember this is about you right now. Not his pleasure to give you the spanking. (only because of what you are trying to accomplish) (and he were a true Dom he would understand) No need to be tied up at first or ever. Remember BD/sm is a pleasurable thing and you should never feel uncomfortable. Also remember the submissive is actually the one who is in control. Not the Dom… (if you can understand that) .

Be sure that you tell your Dom your situation. A true/experienced Dom will know how handle the situation.

Good Luck…
Let us know how it goes.
DGN