My confession.

[catalina_francisco]

Don't you think we're being a touch Xenophobic about this OP? The least we could do is be -civil- to her, for Chrissake.

Jeeze, you think this is being a touch clique-y, or what?

No, I don't. This is a common occurance around here from time to time when someone totally unknown comes to the forum and expects to have a thread exclusively for personal messages or chats with their partner and are not backward in telling the rest of the forum (usually in less than polite terms) to butt out and mind their own business. This is a public forum, not a set of personal post office boxes under lock and key....post here and it is immediately out there for the world. If people don't want that, don't like others to comment, they shouldn't post it in the first place. My thinking is if you post here you have internet, so you have access to email and possibly IM, so if you want to keep it private and between select people, use those options. As you have probably noticed, most new posters get glowing welcomes but just like if someone bursts into your home and begins ordering you around and trashing the place, such an entrance here gets few welcomes...is just a matter of manners and to some extend, maturity I believe.

Catalina

 

[HottieMama]

Yep, I understand as well if that is the case...he is also out of touch with reality, has few manners, and doesn't understand what 'public' means.

Catalina

Catalina...i think for once...we completely agree on something.

It's a banner day.

 

[satindesire]

No, I don't. This is a common occurance around here from time to time when someone totally unknown comes to the forum and expects to have a thread exclusively for personal messages or chats with their partner and are not backward in telling the rest of the forum (usually in less than polite terms) to butt out and mind their own business. This is a public forum, not a set of personal post office boxes under lock and key....post here and it is immediately out there for the world. If people don't want that, don't like others to comment, they shouldn't post it in the first place. My thinking is if you post here you have internet, so you have access to email and possibly IM, so if you want to keep it private and between select people, use those options. As you have probably noticed, most new posters get glowing welcomes but just like if someone bursts into your home and begins ordering you around and trashing the place, such an entrance here gets few welcomes...is just a matter of manners and to some extend, maturity I believe.Catalina

Sorry Cat, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. A lot of new people just don't understand the delicate intricacies of 'thread ettiqute' until they've had some time to post freely and without being flamed. It's a learning process to be taken seriously on a board, hell, I know that my first threads were pretty lame...When opening a thread, no matter the title or how fluffy the filler is, I think we should take these threads with a grain of salt and instead of being rude to the poster, welcome them with open arms and try and -teach- them how to be a good Litster instead of baring our fangs at them like some kind of crazy Hollywood A-Listers.

Edited to add: She wasn't rude to us until we were rude to her. I think that's just giving back what she was given, and that's rightly deserved.

Not trying to start a fight here, I'm merely saying that instead of being Mr And Mrs Grumpy Pants to everyone who isn't an 'ideal poster' here, we should look at it as another opportunity to teach and extend our hearts to someone that could become a valued and trusted friend.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sorry Cat, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. A lot of new people just don't understand the delicate intricacies of 'thread ettiqute' until they've had some time to post freely and without being flamed. It's a learning process to be taken seriously on a board, hell, I know that my first threads were pretty lame...When opening a thread, no matter the title or how fluffy the filler is, I think we should take these threads with a grain of salt and instead of being rude to the poster, welcome them with open arms and try and -teach- them how to be a good Litster instead of baring our fangs at them like some kind of crazy Hollywood A-Listers.

I think it is more about the nature of the beast. When I came to this forum I had never seen a forum or bulletin board, and definately never posted on one..and still post of very few. I took my time to get to know the place a little, get a feel of the people, and used the same manners I use in everyday life...it has nothing to do with the quality of your questions or thoughts, it has to do with manners. Sheesh, whether it is online or in RL, if you waltz in thinking you have the right to order the occupants around in disrespectful ways especially, you really have to be missing something to think you will be welcomed with open loving arms...confrontational behaviour tends to encourage confrontation...respect encourages respect. Maybe it is the Aussie in me that just doesn't take kindly to being told people should mind their own business in a place they have helped make what it is and inhabitated for more than a few moments. I also get tired of this accusation of cliqishness everytime someone doesn't like something that has been said. To disagree with someone else's view or opinion, is nothing to do with being cliquish and everything to do with having an opinion and being comfortable enough to voice it respectfully. I personally only talk to one other person from this forum off the forum, so I can't see how that can be termed cliqish. As to ideal posters, I think we have a very wide array of characters and roles here, especialy compared to other boards I have seen.

Catalina

 

[CutieMouse]

Random thought alert...

Does anyone else ever wonder if threads such as this one, ordered/suggested/whatever by the Masterful Dom type person, is actually an amusing exercise in feeding the lamb to the wolves, just to see how said submissive will react?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Edited to add: She wasn't rude to us until we were rude to her. I think that's just giving back what she was given, and that's rightly deserved.

Well I guess I disagree with this in that the posting obviously already had upset people and been seen as rude and that it followed as expected, that it was not welcome for others to comment on, read, participate, even though this is a public arena. Add to that, I and many others have been openly insulted or attacked by others here before for one reason or another, but choose to respond in a way other than telling them to leave the thread or being blatently rude. As a moderator here, I don't even have the authority to tell someone to leave a thread...once again it comes back to manners and the way someone is used to treating those around them. Perhaps instead of thinking we have something to learn in this instance, it is the OP who might learn something?!

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Random thought alert...

Does anyone else ever wonder if threads such as this one, ordered/suggested/whatever by the Masterful Dom type person, is actually an amusing exercise in feeding the lamb to the wolves, just to see how said submissive will react?

LOL, the thought has crossed my mind but unfortunately time usually reveals the PYL is just out for attantion or so ego obsessed they fail to recognise there is a world full of other people out there.

Catalina

 

[satindesire]

confrontational behaviour tends to encourage confrontation...respect encourages respect.

Precisely. That is why I noted in my second post that she did not order people around or be disrespectful until other people were disrespectful first.

1)They say confession is good for the soul....


Feel better?

2) You're presuming there was some sense there to be fucked senseless from?

3) So...which part of this is the confession?

These are three examples of the -FIRST PAGE- of the thread! Before she even came back to reply or post again, might I add. I think that if I was met with this kind of blatant sarcasm and thoughtlessness, I'd be rude too.

Like leads to like. Exactly what you were saying, and I totally agree. But I doubt she would have been ordering ANYONE around had she been met with a little more thought and care, and some civility, instead of us acting like a bunch of teenagers.

I wish the OP would come back to the thread and saying something on her own defense, but lacking that, I believe she deserves to have a word in her favor. Hence, my posts.

Although I completely appreciate what the spirit of your argument is, Cat, and normally I would agree with you given that...but...I simply cannot stand by while a new poster is just flamed for no good reason. We all hate trolls, right? Well, we're all being a little trollish today, and it isn't worth it.

 

[HottieMama]

Precisely. That is why I noted in my second post that she did not order people around or be disrespectful until other people were disrespectful first.

1)They say confession is good for the soul....


Feel better?

2) You're presuming there was some sense there to be fucked senseless from?

3) So...which part of this is the confession?

These are three examples of the -FIRST PAGE- of the thread! Before she even came back to reply or post again, might I add. I think that if I was met with this kind of blatant sarcasm and thoughtlessness, I'd be rude too.

Like leads to like. Exactly what you were saying, and I totally agree. But I doubt she would have been ordering ANYONE around had she been met with a little more thought and care, and some civility, instead of us acting like a bunch of teenagers.

I wish the OP would come back to the thread and saying something on her own defense, but lacking that, I believe she deserves to have a word in her favor. Hence, my posts.

Although I completely appreciate what the spirit of your argument is, Cat, and normally I would agree with you given that...but...I simply cannot stand by while a new poster is just flamed for no good reason. We all hate trolls, right? Well, we're all being a little trollish today, and it isn't worth it.

Ok...my first reply was your #1. I don't care WHO made this post, if they were brand new or an everyday poster, that would have been my response.

i'm a sarcastic bitch...Sue me.

 

[satindesire]

i'm a sarcastic bitch...Sue me.

I live on a waitress's budget. I couldn't afford it

However, if some nice closet-Dom lawyer could handle some Pro-Bono work in exchange for a nice tail to whup....?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Precisely. That is why I noted in my second post that she did not order people around or be disrespectful until other people were disrespectful first.

1)They say confession is good for the soul....


Feel better?

2) You're presuming there was some sense there to be fucked senseless from?

3) So...which part of this is the confession?

These are three examples of the -FIRST PAGE- of the thread! Before she even came back to reply or post again, might I add. I think that if I was met with this kind of blatant sarcasm and thoughtlessness, I'd be rude too.

Like leads to like. Exactly what you were saying, and I totally agree. But I doubt she would have been ordering ANYONE around had she been met with a little more thought and care, and some civility, instead of us acting like a bunch of teenagers.

I wish the OP would come back to the thread and saying something on her own defense, but lacking that, I believe she deserves to have a word in her favor. Hence, my posts.

Although I completely appreciate what the spirit of your argument is, Cat, and normally I would agree with you given that...but...I simply cannot stand by while a new poster is just flamed for no good reason. We all hate trolls, right? Well, we're all being a little trollish today, and it isn't worth it.

You've missed the point again...this is not a forum which welcomes these type posts/threads as a rule and it was a post which by being posted was seen as rude by some so I stand by my thought she was the first one to be rude, not the regular posters. People can make mistakes, we all have here at some point, but the way to handle it once it has been mentioned it is not really going down well is not to attack with rudeness. For instance, where did it get this poster....did everyone/anyone apologise and beg forgiveness and to be their friend? It is a public forum, we are all adults...if posting we can all expect people to exercise their right to object, disagree, or have a different view, not all rush to think, do and say the same.

Catalina

 

[satindesire]

You've missed the point again...this is not a forum which welcomes these type posts/threads as a rule and it was a post which by being posted was seen as rude by some so I stand by my thought she was the first one to be rude, not the regular posters. People can make mistakes, we all have here at some point, but the way to handle it once it has been mentioned it is not really going down well is not to attack with rudeness. For instance, where did it get this poster....did everyone/anyone apologise and beg forgiveness and to be their friend? It is a public forum, we are all adults...if posting we can all expect people to exercise their right to object, disagree, or have a different view, not all rush to think, do and say the same.

Catalina

If she's a new poster and hasn't visited this particular site a lot before posting, how was she supposed to know that 'that' type of thread was to be seen as rude? Is no one entitled to an innocent mistake before we all run her outta town guns a'blazin?

I am a member of 6 forum sites, all with different unspoken rules of conduct that can only be learned by trial and error, or be someone directly teaching someone else. Each forum site is like it's own culture, it has customs and rules that are different...and each place is SO different that acting how I would here would be deemed -INEXCUSABLE- in another site and I would promptly be flamed out or banned by the moderators. It's like visiting another country...burping at the table would have gotten me grounded in my parents home, but in some places it's considered polite to have a nice belch after a meal. Customs are different everywhere, and each forum is like it's own separate country with it's own rules, spoken and not. Learning takes time, and if she was excited to post here and didn't take a week or two to look around first, ask questions, etc...then who are we to be judge, jury and executioner?

I know that was a bit of a weird way of putting it, but each site is different and if 'that' type of thread isn't welcome, how can we as Adults be so blase about not simply saying something to teach the OP?

"Hey, just in case you don't know, these kinds of threads should be better spared to private chat or IMs, PMs, whatever you have. We like to keep the threads here open to the public...and for future reference just keep that in mind." See how simple that is? No one gets flamed, a lesson is learned, and no bad karma.

We don't know that she was blatantly trying to be rude. Innocent until proven guilty works pretty good as an attitude in these forums.

 

[CutieMouse]

You've missed the point again...this is not a forum which welcomes these type posts/threads as a rule and it was a post which by being posted was seen as rude by some so I stand by my thought she was the first one to be rude, not the regular posters. People can make mistakes, we all have here at some point, but the way to handle it once it has been mentioned it is not really going down well is not to attack with rudeness. For instance, where did it get this poster....did everyone/anyone apologise and beg forgiveness and to be their friend? It is a public forum, we are all adults...if posting we can all expect people to exercise their right to object, disagree, or have a different view, not all rush to think, do and say the same.

Catalina

Given that the issue arises from time to time (particularly in the summers...), and the general board's response leans heavily towards ridicule and negativity (I've been around for 3+ years, and have yet to see a thread such as this one met with sunshine and roses), might it be worth considering adding a little bitty edit to the "Welcome to the BDSM Talk/Cafe" thread pinned at the top of the forum, gently explaining such threads are not really welcomed with open arms? I realize no one really reads the "welcome" thread stickied at the top of the forum, but it might cut down on such things, and rather than enjoying the whole haze the newbie thing, forum members could politely link to the "Welcome" thread (pointing out such threads aren't exactly tolerated around here).

Just a (semi-diplomatic) thought.



(rather than my actual views on the matter)

 

[satindesire]

Given that the issue arises from time to time (particularly in the summers...), and the general board's response leans heavily towards ridicule and negativity (I've been around for 3+ years, and have yet to see a thread such as this one met with sunshine and roses), might it be worth considering adding a little bitty edit to the "Welcome to the BDSM Talk/Cafe" thread pinned at the top of the forum, gently explaining such threads are not really welcomed with open arms? I realize no one really reads the "welcome" thread stickied at the top of the forum, but it might cut down on such things, and rather than enjoying the whole haze the newbie thing, forum members could politely link to the "Welcome" thread (pointing out such threads aren't exactly tolerated around here).

Just a (semi-diplomatic) thought.



(rather than my actual views on the matter)

Well, you know what they say about not having anything nice to say...

I think that's a splendid idea, Ms Mouse. Now we can all go back to playing our fun little thread games and pretend this never happened.

 

[CutieMouse]

Well, you know what they say about not having anything nice to say...

I think that's a splendid idea, Ms Mouse. Now we can all go back to playing our fun little thread games and pretend this never happened.

See that's the difference between us.

I believe in speaking up, speaking out, and saying something, even if it "isn't nice". I totally disagree with your view that the BDSM forum should be a nicey nice place that gets hung up on "newbies" feeling warmly welcomed. I believe arguing and pissing people off can sometimes be a good thing. I believe a dry wit should not be suppressed. I believe "newbies" should be treated like "old timers" and held to the same standards... even if they don't know what the standards are, yet.

I don't believe I (or anyone else) should have to pussy foot around and watch their words, for fear of upsetting, offending, or otherwise pissing off another member of the forum, because that starts us tripping down the road of self-censorship, which inhibits growth and wisdom. I was not particularly kind to the OP; I also essentially told DVS (whom I've "known" at Lit for 3 years) to fuck off the other day, because I was in a rotten mood, and let one of his posts get to me. Adults share their joyful and happy times. Adults joke around and rib each other. Adults offend each other. Adults get pissed off. They also discuss things openly, accept the realitites of the good and bad of human interaction and emotions, and learn to sink or swim because of it.

Pretending this thread, this conversation, and this argument never happened, is not benificial to the future of this forum, just as treating new posters with kid gloves is not benificial. *Overall* this is a welcoming forum, full of helpful people who volunteer their time, energy, knowledge, experience, and heart, to help people accept and discover their darkest desires... it seems silly to me, to mollycoddle posters out of fear of offending them, when there are so many better things to be doing.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Given that the issue arises from time to time (particularly in the summers...), and the general board's response leans heavily towards ridicule and negativity (I've been around for 3+ years, and have yet to see a thread such as this one met with sunshine and roses), might it be worth considering adding a little bitty edit to the "Welcome to the BDSM Talk/Cafe" thread pinned at the top of the forum, gently explaining such threads are not really welcomed with open arms? I realize no one really reads the "welcome" thread stickied at the top of the forum, but it might cut down on such things, and rather than enjoying the whole haze the newbie thing, forum members could politely link to the "Welcome" thread (pointing out such threads aren't exactly tolerated around here).

Just a (semi-diplomatic) thought.



(rather than my actual views on the matter)

LOL, you're right in that it doen't get read much....I actually had something similar in there at one time, maybe it is time to revise and hope. BTW, I am with you on not pussy footing...as we all know I am one to speak my thoughts, and I expect others to do so also, it is how we all grow, challenge our thoughts, learn, and get to know each other better. I hate being around people who agree with every word I say because then I wonder just what they say when I leave the room and my imagination is probably a lot worse than reality. I figure we sprout enough here about communication and honesty being important, we should practice what we preach.....it doesn't have to result in confrontation or disrespect, that is the choice people can make or may make when they have a bad day as we all do.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/137173126_6b94b0f09a_m.jpg Catalina

 

[HottieMama]

See that's the difference between us.

I believe in speaking up, speaking out, and saying something, even if it "isn't nice". I totally disagree with your view that the BDSM forum should be a nicey nice place that gets hung up on "newbies" feeling warmly welcomed. I believe arguing and pissing people off can sometimes be a good thing. I believe a dry wit should not be suppressed. I believe "newbies" should be treated like "old timers" and held to the same standards... even if they don't know what the standards are, yet.

I don't believe I (or anyone else) should have to pussy foot around and watch their words, for fear of upsetting, offending, or otherwise pissing off another member of the forum, because that starts us tripping down the road of self-censorship, which inhibits growth and wisdom. I was not particularly kind to the OP; I also essentially told DVS (whom I've "known" at Lit for 3 years) to fuck off the other day, because I was in a rotten mood, and let one of his posts get to me. Adults share their joyful and happy times. Adults joke around and rib each other. Adults offend each other. Adults get pissed off. They also discuss things openly, accept the realitites of the good and bad of human interaction and emotions, and learn to sink or swim because of it.

Pretending this thread, this conversation, and this argument never happened, is not benificial to the future of this forum, just as treating new posters with kid gloves is not benificial. *Overall* this is a welcoming forum, full of helpful people who volunteer their time, energy, knowledge, experience, and heart, to help people accept and discover their darkest desires... it seems silly to me, to mollycoddle posters out of fear of offending them, when there are so many better things to be doing.

Here,here..Cutie. One of the things i love most about this forum is that i was treated as an equal from the beginning...right or wrong...no matter what i said. That doesn't happen a lot and certainly not in a lot of other Lit forums.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If she's a new poster and hasn't visited this particular site a lot before posting, how was she supposed to know that 'that' type of thread was to be seen as rude? Is no one entitled to an innocent mistake before we all run her outta town guns a'blazin?

Nope, though most of us check it out first....and the choice can be made to apologise instead of abuse. Ther are many posters here who started on the wrong foot and were accepted simply because they could admit they might have made a mistake and apologised, even after cross exchanges..it is simple limes of communication in the interests of being accepted and taken seriously.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/558100717_fc95f01b01_t.jpg Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Here,here..Cutie. One of the things i love most about this forum is that i was treated as an equal from the beginning...right or wrong...no matter what i said. That doesn't happen a lot and certainly not in a lot of other Lit forums.

LOL, now you know why a lot of us do not wander outside these walls!!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1368/558075031_1c3fcb2186_t.jpg Catalina

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Nice thing about being a Gemini... I can see everyone's point, argue them back and forth with myself and still end up wrasslin on the ground with my own ego....

Sorry you got a rough intro here irish, but trust me, this was positively benign compared to the treatment you would get on the GB (General Board for the uninitiated).

And Cat, I'm not in the clique? Not in the clique? OMG, Cat you wound me to the quick!

Seriously though, satin, we don't have to agree with one another all the time. Hell I've bumped heads with plenty of folk around here. That doesn't mean I disrespect them as a person. There are plenty of kinks that aren't my kink but WTF, if they make someone happy they are free to carry on. We're adults here, freely exchanging thoughts, ideas, feelings.

And if anyone teases me about how sickeningly sweet I am towards jane that they need more insulin... or needing sunglasses because of the sun glaring off the balding spot on the top, rear, left quadrant of my head, you can call me Johnny Storm 'cause it's FLAME ON!
__________________

 

[CutieMouse]

And if anyone teases me about how sickeningly sweet I am towards jane that they need more insulin... or needing sunglasses because of the sun glaring off the balding spot on the top, rear, left quadrant of my head, you can call me Johnny Storm 'cause it's FLAME ON!

... you and Janie are pretty adorable.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And Cat, I'm not in the clique? Not in the clique? OMG, Cat you wound me to the quick!

Sssshhhh, you're not supposed to let them know about the Gemini clique..they'll all get jealous and then where will we be.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1372/535079392_f8b8c0b2d0_t.jpg Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Can't we ever be like the GB and not feel guilty about it?

 

[satindesire]

Then I respectfully decline to agree.

I believe that being polite to people, even if you disagree with them is the right path to take.

Maturity, perceived slight or rudeness aside, in my home life it's simply called manners, and if I'm wrong for having them, so be it!

 

[CutieMouse]

Then I respectfully decline to agree.

I believe that being polite to people, even if you disagree with them, is the right path to take.

Maturity, perceived slight or rudeness aside, in my home life, it's simply called manners, and if I'm wrong for having them, so be it!

I believe the point people are trying to make, is that your definition of good manners, is not the only definiton of good manners. As I mentioned above, I was not easy on the OP in my initial response to this thread; however, my words were chosen with great care and every attempt was made to make my point with civility. Others have argued that waltzing into an online forum, without using basic nettiquite, is poor manners, as well.*
Telling people what they want to hear, is not my definition of good manners, and never will be.

* I do not understand the argument that standard "nettiquite" is so particular to each online community, that a new poster should get a "pass" for not understanding how a particular message board works. I've been in online forums for roughly 15 years now, approached every single online community with the exact same posting style/approach, and never once raised the irk of forum members or moderators. You take a day or two (minimum) to get a feel for the board and learn what sorts of posts end up in flame wars, make your initial post or thread a helpful one (rather than a self centered or attention seeking one), conduct yourself with a hint of modesty, introduce yourself within the first week or so of posting, and avoid drama filled threads for the first month. It's the exact same as entering any social/charitable/volunteer/work based organization- if you want to be accepted by the ruling majority, you engage them quietly and let your reputation speak for itself; it's just good manners to do so.