Must physical pain be a part of a D/s relationship?

[VelvetDarkness]

This thread reminds me of when I was in a vanilla relationship and expressed a desire for kink. My SO at the time was happy to 'play' but there was absolutely no way he would ever have become a lifestyler - just wasn't in him.

It was interesting as a way to explore mild S & M in the bedroom but I never experienced dominance from him. In fact, the opposite was true - he was being forceful in bed because he wanted to please me, not because it was something that got him hard in a feral, primal way. Granted, having his gf get all turned on and adventurous was adequate compensation but the bottom line was that he wasn't a dom. The relationship ended for other reasons but it taught me that regardless of how much a couple might want to please each other, sometimes there just isn't enough compatibility for compromise to do anything other than disappoint both parties.

So I wonder if the OP is naturally dominant or has recently discovered that his wife wants to submit to him. If, as ataxia.girl said, the dominance just isn't there on his part, this could all end up being an exercise in dissatisfaction for both of them.

 

[JMohegan]

This thread reminds me of when I was in a vanilla relationship and expressed a desire for kink. My SO at the time was happy to 'play' but there was absolutely no way he would ever have become a lifestyler - just wasn't in him.

It was interesting as a way to explore mild S & M in the bedroom but I never experienced dominance from him. In fact, the opposite was true - he was being forceful in bed because he wanted to please me, not because it was something that got him hard in a feral, primal way. Granted, having his gf get all turned on and adventurous was adequate compensation but the bottom line was that he wasn't a dom. The relationship ended for other reasons but it taught me that regardless of how much a couple might want to please each other, sometimes there just isn't enough compatibility for compromise to do anything other than disappoint both parties.

So I wonder if the OP is naturally dominant or has recently discovered that his wife wants to submit to him. If, as ataxia.girl said, the dominance just isn't there on his part, this could all end up being an exercise in dissatisfaction for both of them.

It seems clear to me that you and Ataxia have a different view of what "dominant" means than I do. Which is fine, of course. No one is Webster here.

In my view (and in my relationships) the dominant one is the one who controls what happens. The submissive partner defers to those preferences. The key mindset that a dominant needs is a sense of confident entitlement.

Feral, primal aggressiveness is a separate construct.

Guys who are comfortable and adept at maintaining control in a personal relationship are often physically, forcefully aggressive as well. But that's not always the case.

Guys who are physically, forcefully aggressive are sometimes comfortable and adept at maintaining control in personal relationships as well. But most are not.


I can understand why the experience with your former SO was unsatisfying for you, Velvet. But there are lots of couples who have successfully incorporated D/s and/or SM into their formerly non-kinky relationships. Helping them do so usually requires a lot more information than we've been given here. However, one thing I've found to be rarely (if ever) helpful is for individuals outside the relationship to insert their personal proclivities into the situation and make dire proclamations from there.

 

[Netzach]

The very last thing I would want to do with an extremely and unjustifiably insolent woman would be to interact with her physically - in any capacity.

Walking away can be an extraordinarily effective way to drive home the message about which behaviors you refuse to tolerate. "I refuse to be around you when you act like this; let me know if & when you're ready to shape up" takes her "Make me submit!" challenge and flips it around to put the onus on her.

Everyone's different. This is just one M.O. for consideration.

This isn't just D/s - personal boundaries. They're good for a body.

 

[Netzach]

So... let me get this straight.

pain = no
humiliation = no
sadism = no (i think we can infer this one by virtue of the no pain, no humiliation)
punishment = no

praise = yes
helping = yes
nurturing = yes

i would kinda like to know where the D is in this D/s. i know it's possible but perhaps that would be a good discussion and helpful to the OP to find out exactly in what way he is Dominant.

i see the carrot. Where is the stick? Does there have to be one?

No. There doesn't have to be a stick, the carrot has to be pretty mindblowingly amazing, but some carrots are. The small degree of submissive leanings I have are entirely carrot-motivated. I can't fathom saying no to my top - now before we go off into "would you suck off five republican conventioneers" land, my top has very simple slightly left of vanilla interests at most. I would accept a lot rougher treatment if he wanted to do it, but *I'm not the person setting that agenda* so sucking on my breasts for an hour it is.

 

[desertslave]

There are a lot of different meanings for "punishment," especially in a BDSM context. I know some couples who 'play' at disobedience as an acceptable set-up for pain play. For them there needs to be a pretext of some sort of rule-breaking in order to engage in physical pain activities. They're welcome activities, but for whatever reasons these folks can't/won't just jump in to "S&M" stuff without some sort of cause to stage it.

For us, the pain play is part of how we have sex. It's a GOOD thing, all by itself.

I obey because I want to please him. I deeply appreciate the structure he gives me. When we have disagreements, we work it out like most people would, not with punishment (because I'm not 5 years old, and spanking wouldn't work anyway LOL). I try very hard to make my wants and needs meld with his (and we're close enough in most things to begin with that it's not that much of a stretch). The only time I safeword is when we talk politics.

My ex is my ex because he lied to me constantly, and was the model of passive-aggressive. I just couldn't live that way.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Your question is valid, but it has been answered multiple times on this thread.

The answer is yes. It is possible to establish and sustain a D/s relationship that involves neither pain nor humiliation nor punishment.

Maybe confidence alone works on some subs. Its not automatically going to be fulfilling for his wife just because he wants it to. i think you are correct that it may bring some harmony into the relationship and bring them closer, it just may not be as deep as connection many people search for when exploring D/s.

i'm not trying to rule out that his wife may not need pain, humiliation or punishment. Maybe she doesn't and if so awesome but just because he's uncomfortable dishing those things out does not automatically mean she will be fulfilled not getting them.

i'll be very frank here. i have D/s at home. We do it his way which for me is the only way D/s can work at all. Its good. It has brought and continues to bring us closer. It is not enough and i still search. i like the edge. He doesn't. He's the one in charge. It took a long time for me to let go of wanting him to fulfill all my needs as a submissive and to stop trying to get that from him.

The good news: When he made the decision (without me) to quit spinning and trying to keep up with me and just did things his way things got infinitely better between us as a couple. i truly feel his dominance now.

The bad news: i go elsewhere to explore my boundaries and learn about myself as a submissive.

 

[ecstaticsub]

<<snip>>

The only time I safeword is when we talk politics.

LOL, that's me too, but not with politics. Another subject.

Maybe confidence alone works on some subs. Its not automatically going to be fulfilling for his wife just because he wants it to. i think you are correct that it may bring some harmony into the relationship and bring them closer, it just may not be as deep as connection many people search for when exploring D/s.

i'm not trying to rule out that his wife may not need pain, humiliation or punishment. Maybe she doesn't and if so awesome but just because he's uncomfortable dishing those things out does not automatically mean she will be fulfilled not getting them.

i'll be very frank here. i have D/s at home. We do it his way which for me is the only way D/s can work at all. Its good. It has brought and continues to bring us closer. It is not enough and i still search. i like the edge. He doesn't. He's the one in charge. It took a long time for me to let go of wanting him to fulfill all my needs as a submissive and to stop trying to get that from him.

The good news: When he made the decision (without me) to quit spinning and trying to keep up with me and just did things his way things got infinitely better between us as a couple. i truly feel his dominance now.

The bad news: i go elsewhere to explore my boundaries and learn about myself as a submissive.

Is that really bad news? My husband and I gave a half-hearted try at BDSM. We did more as role-play but he just wasn't into it at all. But I love him and everything else including vanilla sex is excellent. The OP and his wife will just have to see what works out for the two of them and then make the decision wether or not to continue or to allow each other to go elsewhere to fulfill their needs.

I don't think it shows a weakness in the marriage or couple for them to recongnize the need to go outside of their relationship to meet their needs. (as long as everyone is being honest and open about it)

 

[ataxia.girl]

LOL, that's me too, but not with politics. Another subject.

Is that really bad news? My husband and I gave a half-hearted try at BDSM. We did more as role-play but he just wasn't into it at all. But I love him and everything else including vanilla sex is excellent. The OP and his wife will just have to see what works out for the two of them and then make the decision wether or not to continue or to allow each other to go elsewhere to fulfill their needs.

I don't think it shows a weakness in the marriage or couple for them to recongnize the need to go outside of their relationship to meet their needs. (as long as everyone is being honest and open about it)

i don't think it has to be bad news no. Its part of getting over the idea that two people can be "everything" to each other or if they're not then one or both of them have to give up having certain things. Sometimes it just depends how important those things are to us that we are expected to give up in order to keep the relationship exclusive and how important exclusivity is.

 

[im_a_voyeur]

The short answer is no and I prefer that pain (severe pain, more so) not be a part of my relationship.

(I consider myself a sensualist and definately not a masochist.)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

It seems clear to me that you and Ataxia have a different view of what "dominant" means than I do. Which is fine, of course. No one is Webster here.

In my view (and in my relationships) the dominant one is the one who controls what happens. The submissive partner defers to those preferences. The key mindset that a dominant needs is a sense of confident entitlement.

Feral, primal aggressiveness is a separate construct.

Guys who are comfortable and adept at maintaining control in a personal relationship are often physically, forcefully aggressive as well. But that's not always the case.

Guys who are physically, forcefully aggressive are sometimes comfortable and adept at maintaining control in personal relationships as well. But most are not.

I do get this. It is not always necessary to incorporate pain into a D/s dynamic, I said as much further back. I freely admit that for me personally, dominance without sadism thrown in wouldn't be enough for me. I also freely admit that other couples have power exchange dynamics without any kind of painplay or physical chastisement.

The OP has already incorporated this into his MO and is having second thoughts but those second thoughts may not necessarily mean that he's completely against any kind of aggression or forcefulness.

I can understand why the experience with your former SO was unsatisfying for you, Velvet. But there are lots of couples who have successfully incorporated D/s and/or SM into their formerly non-kinky relationships. Helping them do so usually requires a lot more information than we've been given here. However, one thing I've found to be rarely (if ever) helpful is for individuals outside the relationship to insert their personal proclivities into the situation and make dire proclamations from there.

I don't believe I made any dire proclamations. I posed the question that the Op's wife might recently have shown an interest in BDSM and that there might be an incompatibility in that the OP and his wife may not see D/s in exactly the same way or want the same things out of it. I cited my own experience because that's how we all operate, we draw on what we've discovered and offer that insight to others.

I didn't make a blanket statement about pain and D/s. I may not have qualified my use of the word 'dominance' as well as I could have but I resent the implication that I'm shoving my 'personal proclivities' down anyone else's throat.

I think you're a really insightful and valuable poster here JM but sometimes you're like a dog with a bone and I find it a little pedantic.

 

[greeneyed_Lady]

I didn't bother reading all the responses.. but D/s is what works for you and your partner. There is no right or wrong way (unless you are going beyond *play* and into abuse.. NOT GOOD).

Read, research, talk with your partner, talk with others, listen to responses and formulate what works for you and your partner, use what is useful and let the rest of it go.

 

[leod65]

A very sincere and HEART-FELT thanks to ALL who have contributed to what I feel is a very informative and well thought out thread!
I do though want to single out Ataxia for special thanks and to express my appreciation for not only her insight but for also keeping the thread going. Remarkably, you have asked and replied to alot of this with the same questions that I would've.
With that out of the way, Id like to address a couple of issues that I saw here.
Firstly, let me clearify my "aversion" to and unsettled feeling about having spanked my wife. Although I didnt "enjoy" it in any sense of the word, I felt that at the time all options had been exhausted. As with children, a "spanking" (or other physical punishment) is the LAST resort to reassert authority. She knew in no uncertain terms that her behavior was not deemed acceptable by me. As alot of you suggested, I had, prior to this, expressed my displeasure in no uncertain terms (along with a description of what I felt was unacceptable about her behavior). The behavior continued and so I therefore felt that I had no other option.
In answer to Ataxia's question, her response to it was very strange. She didnt really show much one way or another (almost a benign "resignation"). She did quietly cry a little while I held her afterward to console her. Mind you though that it was for comfort and not an "apology" for having done that (this was made clear to her also). I do think that it came as a suprise to her that I did it though, despite having talked about it at length prior to this.
As for another response about my "limits" perhaps I should clerify. I am not into administering punishment/pain for my own pleasure. Sadism is not my style at all. Punisment is there as a behavior modification tool. Physical punishment for me is the tool "of last resort". I prefer to expend all other options prior to administering physical punishment. Basically what it all boils down to is that I dont like it, but will use it when all other options are exhausted.
If I had to label my personality, it would probobly be Parent/Teacher (with benefits ). Im not really a "Master", nor do I want to be. Neither am I wanting her to be a "slave". I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to guiding her every action. I am "dominant" in the sense that I demand obedience, respect, and the "last word" on decsions made in my household. In return I provide a home and income along with love, nurture, respect, and devotion to helping her attain whatever goals she (or I) may set for her.
Well anyway, I guess since my original question has pretty much been answered, I need to ask another. What kinds of things do you use (or have been used on you) to reward good behavior or punish bad? Of course I understand the "vanilla" methods of flowers, dinner, etc, but I would be interested in hearing the creative side

Once again, THANKS all!!
Leo

 

[unfoundiamond]

Well said.
You may not want to hurt her physically. So go mentally.
Either way, correction through negative punishment MUST be and remain an element or else the exertion of your Dominance over her will not be felt by her.
She needs that control. She needs to know that her place is secured. And to do that, she needs your Top to balance out her bottom.

If you cannot bring yourself to punish her in any way, this journey must come to a swift end for now.

Punishment isn't always physical pain.

This thread isn't about if "punishment" is required but pain...

So maybe if you get your head out of ataxias skirt we can actually talk about the OPs responce clearly...

Hahaha... see what happens when a girl needs a spanking...

 

[Homburg]

If I had to label my personality, it would probobly be Parent/Teacher (with benefits ). Im not really a "Master", nor do I want to be. Neither am I wanting her to be a "slave". I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to guiding her every action. I am "dominant" in the sense that I demand obedience, respect, and the "last word" on decsions made in my household. In return I provide a home and income along with love, nurture, respect, and devotion to helping her attain whatever goals she (or I) may set for her.

Leo

Glad that you have done this sort of introspection. Rock on with your relationship.

As to the bolded text, dude, just don't go there. Please. Research a bit, and don't spread myths.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I do though want to single out Ataxia for special thanks and to express my appreciation for not only her insight but for also keeping the thread going. Remarkably, you have asked and replied to alot of this with the same questions that I would've.

You're very welcome. i do like to beat the dead horse.

What kinds of things do you use (or have been used on you) to reward good behavior or punish bad? Of course I understand the "vanilla" methods of flowers, dinner, etc, but I would be interested in hearing the creative side

i think this one can really only be answered by figuring out what works for your wife and that can't always be found out by asking. Sometimes experimentation works better than talking about it. i've found most things i like the most were just stumbled on by one D or another.

One of my favorite rewards is to be "molested" by waking up to "Daddy" pulling off my panties, putting a pillow over my face so i don't make any noise, and fucking me hard. If it isn't in the middle of the night by waking me up then it is often preceded by a short, not too intense spanking or perhaps a struggle. i absolutely love being physically overpowered, for me that is a treat. There are certain things that if done i almost reflexively start struggling, like tickling, despite the fact that i am generally very compliant.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Im not really a "Master", nor do I want to be. Neither am I wanting her to be a "slave". I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to guiding her every action.

i'm not a slave but i am pretty sure i require MORE energy and guidance than most of the slaves on this site!

As Homburg said, probably shouldn't go there on that one.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I don't want to do a lot of shit...

This thread took a odd and unexpected turn...

So if I want to or don't want to do something obvious and optional I should write a thread about it?
Im trying to be PC guys, jc, thanx in advance..
lol...

Im not a slave and She isn't a "master", her and i as along with many others I know or speak to, we have our own names for each other,

And we live our own lives, and She doesn't pick my underwear... don't insinuate stuff man.

*Bump*

 

[intothewoods]

A very sincere and HEART-FELT thanks to ALL who have contributed to what I feel is a very informative and well thought out thread!
I do though want to single out Ataxia for special thanks and to express my appreciation for not only her insight but for also keeping the thread going. Remarkably, you have asked and replied to alot of this with the same questions that I would've.
With that out of the way, Id like to address a couple of issues that I saw here.
Firstly, let me clearify my "aversion" to and unsettled feeling about having spanked my wife. Although I didnt "enjoy" it in any sense of the word, I felt that at the time all options had been exhausted. As with children, a "spanking" (or other physical punishment) is the LAST resort to reassert authority. She knew in no uncertain terms that her behavior was not deemed acceptable by me. As alot of you suggested, I had, prior to this, expressed my displeasure in no uncertain terms (along with a description of what I felt was unacceptable about her behavior). The behavior continued and so I therefore felt that I had no other option.
In answer to Ataxia's question, her response to it was very strange. She didnt really show much one way or another (almost a benign "resignation"). She did quietly cry a little while I held her afterward to console her. Mind you though that it was for comfort and not an "apology" for having done that (this was made clear to her also). I do think that it came as a suprise to her that I did it though, despite having talked about it at length prior to this.
As for another response about my "limits" perhaps I should clerify. I am not into administering punishment/pain for my own pleasure. Sadism is not my style at all. Punisment is there as a behavior modification tool. Physical punishment for me is the tool "of last resort". I prefer to expend all other options prior to administering physical punishment. Basically what it all boils down to is that I dont like it, but will use it when all other options are exhausted.
If I had to label my personality, it would probobly be Parent/Teacher (with benefits ). Im not really a "Master", nor do I want to be. Neither am I wanting her to be a "slave". I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to guiding her every action. I am "dominant" in the sense that I demand obedience, respect, and the "last word" on decsions made in my household. In return I provide a home and income along with love, nurture, respect, and devotion to helping her attain whatever goals she (or I) may set for her.
Well anyway, I guess since my original question has pretty much been answered, I need to ask another. What kinds of things do you use (or have been used on you) to reward good behavior or punish bad? Of course I understand the "vanilla" methods of flowers, dinner, etc, but I would be interested in hearing the creative side

Once again, THANKS all!!
Leo

What was your wife's reaction to the spanking later that day, or the next morning? I don't think any of us can really give advice without knowing more about her.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

What kinds of things do you use (or have been used on you) to reward good behavior or punish bad? Of course I understand the "vanilla" methods of flowers, dinner, etc, but I would be interested in hearing the creative side

Well because I am a masochist and generally enjoy pain, Master has had to be inventive when it comes to punishments because physical chastisement doesn't always upset me in the way that it should.

He generally chooses something that he knows I will genuinely dislike. I have been required to sit in a room alone all day and clean his music equipment - which is all very expensive and delicate and some parts have to be cleaned with a toothbrush or cotton bud. I have been told to write an essay on what was wrong about my behaviour, what is due to my Master and how I will endeavour not to displease and disappoint him by doing XYZ in the future. Withdrawal of physical affection is also very effective; he will still use me for his own pleasure but there will be no attention paid to mine and no cuddles or kisses throughout the day. I will also not be permitted to cum. Sometimes he just shuts himself in his office and masturbates to porn, making it clear that he is doing so because he has absolutely no desire to use me. Sometimes he makes me kneel on the floor and watch while he does this. Another tool he uses is his friends. He'll invite them round or go out with them and leave me a list of boring chores to do while he has fun. I am permitted no music/tv/internet or anything while I'm being punished.

Of course, I hardly ever get punished because I am such a wonderful slave. *smiles winningly*

Rewards come in many shapes and... ahem... sizes. Sometimes he just runs me a bath and cooks dinner while I wallow in the water with a book and a glass of wine. Another reward is being tied down to the bed and teased/played with and eaten out. Master isn't usually interested in this kind of play because he sees it as 'serving the slave.' He prefers to be able to move me around and he almost always gets sadistic as he gets turned on but when he wants to treat me, I get gently played with and spoiled. He does vanilla stuff like take me out for a meal. Master also gets me little thoughtful gifts like a book or CD that I would like and probably wouldn't buy myself.

Many times it's something as blissfully simple as watching a movie while snuggling naked on the sofa with a bottle of wine.

 

[ownedsubgal]

A very sincere and HEART-FELT thanks to ALL who have contributed to what I feel is a very informative and well thought out thread!
I do though want to single out Ataxia for special thanks and to express my appreciation for not only her insight but for also keeping the thread going. Remarkably, you have asked and replied to alot of this with the same questions that I would've.
With that out of the way, Id like to address a couple of issues that I saw here.
Firstly, let me clearify my "aversion" to and unsettled feeling about having spanked my wife. Although I didnt "enjoy" it in any sense of the word, I felt that at the time all options had been exhausted. As with children, a "spanking" (or other physical punishment) is the LAST resort to reassert authority. She knew in no uncertain terms that her behavior was not deemed acceptable by me. As alot of you suggested, I had, prior to this, expressed my displeasure in no uncertain terms (along with a description of what I felt was unacceptable about her behavior). The behavior continued and so I therefore felt that I had no other option.
In answer to Ataxia's question, her response to it was very strange. She didnt really show much one way or another (almost a benign "resignation"). She did quietly cry a little while I held her afterward to console her. Mind you though that it was for comfort and not an "apology" for having done that (this was made clear to her also). I do think that it came as a suprise to her that I did it though, despite having talked about it at length prior to this.
As for another response about my "limits" perhaps I should clerify. I am not into administering punishment/pain for my own pleasure. Sadism is not my style at all. Punisment is there as a behavior modification tool. Physical punishment for me is the tool "of last resort". I prefer to expend all other options prior to administering physical punishment. Basically what it all boils down to is that I dont like it, but will use it when all other options are exhausted.
If I had to label my personality, it would probobly be Parent/Teacher (with benefits ). Im not really a "Master", nor do I want to be. Neither am I wanting her to be a "slave". I have neither the time nor the energy to devote to guiding her every action. I am "dominant" in the sense that I demand obedience, respect, and the "last word" on decsions made in my household. In return I provide a home and income along with love, nurture, respect, and devotion to helping her attain whatever goals she (or I) may set for her.
Well anyway, I guess since my original question has pretty much been answered, I need to ask another. What kinds of things do you use (or have been used on you) to reward good behavior or punish bad? Of course I understand the "vanilla" methods of flowers, dinner, etc, but I would be interested in hearing the creative side

Once again, THANKS all!!
Leo

hi Leo and welcome to the boards. although i haven't responded before now, i've been following the thread with great interest and was wondering whether or not you would return to provide more details as well as your thoughts. now that you've done that, the situation you described with your wife and the dilemma you were facing in regards to physical pain make much more sense to me. the way you've described yourself and your relationship structure...parent/teacher/guide, Head of Household, etc. sounds in many ways like what i have with my Master. He is Father/Daddy above all else and he very much sees it as his purpose and duty to mold and guide me, all throughout my life. punishment, whether physical or otherwise, is by no means a pleasure for either of us and i strive everyday to avoid it. of course i'm not perfect yet so i falter at times and then must deal with those consequences, and then we move on.

D/s does not require physical punishment or sadism of course. it only requires a dominant person (guiding the ship) and a submissive person (the compliant vessel), working together. it sounds from what you've shared here that you already have that, it most likely comes naturally to the both of you. and that is the most admirable and reliable D/s imo, that which is borne of nature and instinct and not from poring over lifestyle texts and webpages.

as for your questions of how to reward good behavior or punish bad, in this household i suppose you could say negative reinforcement is more the lay of the land. punishment, discipline and fear have all been critical elements since day one. but there is no "reward" system. it is my place and purpose to be good, to be obedient and pleasing. that is what is expected of me. if i fail to meet those expectations, then i will suffer. but if i meet them, i don't get a medal. to us that'd be a bit like receiving an award or prize for being a good parent. not that he doesn't believe in treating me every now and again, but it's never the direct result of some exemplary behavior on my part. it's more of an expression of his appreciation for me and my service. this can be something like taking a day trip to tour my favorite museums in D.C., buying me a new book or cd, doing some of my chores for me, etc. i never see it coming and it's never expected.

punishment varies greatly, though there is usually some physical element. it may be loss of a privilege and a beating, or an essay assignment and a beating, or a brief period of solitude (the cage) and a beating, etc. a beating alone usually means the offense was relatively minor, that i caused him irritation more than anything. no beating at all usually signifies a more severe offense...i've disappointed him, let him down. those are the worst.

 

[Homburg]

no beating at all usually signifies a more severe offense...i've disappointed him, let him down. those are the worst.

One of my gals told me onc ethat she hated it when I raised my voice at her. Not in the angry hate sense, but in the sense that it made her feel absolutely awful because she'd failed me. I told her that me getting loud was something of a back-handed compliment. It meant that she was salvagable. If she'd truly failed me, I wouldn't raise my voice at all. Same concept as what you mention above.

 

[leod65]

First off, let me once again thank those who have contributed to making this thread what I find to be both informative, and interesting.

JMohegan's post of 8:13 am put very nicely into words where I feel that I stand in all this when he said:

"In my view (and in my relationships) the dominant one is
the one who controls what happens. The submissive
partner defers to those preferences. The key mindset that
a dominant needs is a sense of confident entitlement."

I really find that that description most closely fits what I have felt (and suppressed due to societal pressures) over the years.
I think that Desertslave also brought out a good point about the frustration of "passive-agressivness" (although in passing). Looking back to my past, this is exactly what I had become due to my desire to be "the loving husband". I think that marriage is the only form of interpersonal relationship where society teaches that there are no "leaders". We (men?) are taught that in every other aspect of our lives we must strive for control and order. When it comes to relationships with women though we are taught that they must be treated as our equal in all aspects of the relationship. As a matter of fact, some could say that we are taught to defer to the woman completely.
The conflict inside myself came from the fact that I was taught by family and military that a man needs to assume full responsability for his household and personal life. Society at large though teaches the man that to "love" a woman, he must put her on a pedistal and defer all to her wants and desires. In my case, this led to great internal conflict resulting in a bad case of passive agressivness prior to meeting and marrying my Babydoll. i hope nobody minds my bit of interspection here

Ataxia, your post of 11:02 am made a good point about "confidence alone". Although I am sure that there are those who are comfortable with just confidence building, I think that (as someone mentioned earlier) there must also be a "stick" to this "carrot". As pertains to my wife (for reasons I shall explain later), "humiliation" is a fate worse than if I where to whip her with a belt until she couldnt sit down. As for punishment though, I do believe that she strongly desires and has sought a "strong hand". There are times in which I feel that she is going out of her way to be provoking. I had initially thought that she was just being passive agressive until we spoke in depth about the concept of a D/s relationship. Looking back I can see how it can be very easy to confuse P-A'ness and a desire to be "taken in hand" so to speak.

I think that her reaction to this spanking is what threw me the most for a loop in all of this. I had expected that her mood would at least swing to one direction or another. I knew from her words that despite the threat of a spanking, she didnt feel that I "had it in me" to do it. After it was done she just sat there and quietly cried a little. I held her and comforted her for a little bit until she stopped and then left her to think. When I asked her about it later, she wouldnt really explain how she felt about it other than to say it was not something she would say no to if the "need" arose again. She is usually fairly articulate in explaining her feelings except for this instance. I have made the assumption that it touched her on some lower level which she doesnt really understand and hence doesnt really know what to tell me when I ask about it.
As for my reaction I think I have pretty well spelled it out other than to say that for some strange reason, I, at least partially, "rose to the occasion". In a way, I think that that disturbed me along with the spanking itself because a part of me wanted to yank down her panties and "take whats mine" when I was done. I still havnt quite sorted all of that part of it out yet.

Alot of you have asked about my Babydoll and how we came to this "lifestyle". I can only speak of what was told to me by her but the due in part to her family, and religious backround she was basically raised to be "submissive" at least in the sense of the "husband is the head of the household" word. We begain reading various articles and forums about D/s along the way in an effort to uncover why she put up with a VERY abusive husband for 25 years prior to our meeting. Basically what came out of all of this discussion and learning was that she felt that this is the kind of life she has been looking for all along. She married her first husband thinking that she was getting a caring "dom" (although at the time she didnt look at it that way) but instead found that she ended up with someone who just expected her to be his "punching bag".
When we met and married we struggled for a while because as I stated earlier I was firmly a P-A personality. This didnt mix well because we were both deferring to the other. We really first started to discuss this after we found our marriage on shaky ground due to the previously stated reasons. Its only been a few months for us but despite the occasional "troubling episode" (at least on my behalf), I find that she is a little more "settled" and I find that I am less "frustrated" and repressed. In a way, I dont really think that I could or would go back to the life I lived just a few years ago now that I have lived this way. The only real problem now is that if I were to loose my Babydoll, I dont think there are alot of women out there who want a man with a dominant personality. I must say though, from what I have learned about myself so far, I'd rather live alone than to go back to what I was

Everybody take care and thanks again for your help!!
Cheers,
Leo

 

[Homburg]

As for my reaction I think I have pretty well spelled it out other than to say that for some strange reason, I, at least partially, "rose to the occasion". In a way, I think that that disturbed me along with the spanking itself because a part of me wanted to yank down her panties and "take whats mine" when I was done. I still havnt quite sorted all of that part of it out yet.

Cheers,
Leo

Nothing disturbing at all about that. And I'm willing to bet that if you had taken what was yours, she would've loved it.

You enjoyed it, Leo. Nothing wrong with that. And it sounds like she did too. You might want to try spanking her just for the sake of spanking her. You guys both might get a rise out of it, a sit were.

 

[fma30f]

hi

Yes. pain is very erotic for both. I like to submit to severe caning voluntarily by my dom. He knows how to keep me high with his cane!!