Music Business Folks - help!

[Selena_Kitt]

Anyone here ever cut an album? (er... CD... what do they call it now? lol) Ever been part of the "mixing" process? I need some general idea of how "mixing" happens... how tracks are blended, etc... I have no idea what they use nowadays...

anyone?

please?

 

[S-Des]

Anyone here ever cut an album? (er... CD... what do they call it now? lol) Ever been part of the "mixing" process? I need some general idea of how "mixing" happens... how tracks are blended, etc... I have no idea what they use nowadays...

anyone?

please?

I'm off for the day, but I'll be back tonight. You can PM me or just ask what you need in the thread. I believe Boota has been through it as well (although he's not around as often). I need you to be a touch more specific about what you want, or the response would be about a Lit page (you know I can never tell a short story ).

 

[CopyCarver]

Anyone here ever cut an album? (er... CD... what do they call it now? lol) Ever been part of the "mixing" process? I need some general idea of how "mixing" happens... how tracks are blended, etc... I have no idea what they use nowadays...

anyone?

please?

That's a very big topic that could fill not only an entire book, but an entire library shelf. For starters, there's a quantum difference between mixing analog audio and digital audio. Another biggie is whether you're going for "good sounding" audio or concert quality or NAB broadcast quality.

You can get a quick intro to the subject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitrack_recording
Admittedly, Wiki's page won't qualify you for an audio engineer's license but it gives a good overview and may at least clarify some of your questions, if not answer them all.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

basically, I need enough info to fake it through a mixing session...

Thanks for the link, CC, I'll check it out...

basically, the audio engineer is suggesting a change to the recording artist... she wants to add a different instrument to the mix (I'm thinking cello)... it's not a long scene, but I need to know how it all works... could she record something on the spot and add it to the album? How many mixes does it all go through?

You can tell I'm completely clueless...

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

basically, I need enough info to fake it through a mixing session...

Thanks for the link, CC, I'll check it out...

basically, the audio engineer is suggesting a change to the recording artist... she wants to add a different instrument to the mix (I'm thinking cello)... it's not a long scene, but I need to know how it all works... could she record something on the spot and add it to the album? How many mixes does it all go through?

You can tell I'm completely clueless...

It's impossible to tell what you're talking about, dear. Deep breaths now...

Is someone recording a song? Why do you say "it's not a long "scene"? Is it a play or a song that's being recorded?

Overdubbing instruments (recording them one by one, and adding them to the mix) is how everything but the most expensive pop music is done.

Here's the most basic scenario:

Instruments and vocals are recorded one by one to make a

MASTER MIX, where all the instruments and vocals are heard together, and individually tweaked until the whole thing sounds nice.

THEN,

MASTER EFFECTS are added to the master mix, to make the final sound better (this is also called "finalizing").

FINALLY, the whole master mix is reduced to a STEREO MIXDOWN, where it's in a state ready to cut to a CD.

Most of the work is put into making the master mix.

If you've burned everything to CD, then decide to add a cello, you need to go through the process of doing the master mix again, finalizing again, and stereo mixdown again.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

sorry I'm so clueless... thanks for being so patient... What you posted was very helpful...

oh, when I said scene, I mean, writing scene... lol

The scenario is that the audio engineer suggests adding something to the mix during the "master mix" process, I'm thinking, but I don't even know if that's possible! Perhaps I'll have to do it before then?

MASTER MIX, where all the instruments and vocals are heard together, and individually tweaked until the whole thing sounds nice...Most of the work is put into making the master mix.

that's what I figured... so during this process, would it be possible to decide to add something? Could it be recorded on the spot and added, then? Or would it have to occur during the making of the Master Mix?

 

[S-Des]

basically, I need enough info to fake it through a mixing session...

Thanks for the link, CC, I'll check it out...

basically, the audio engineer is suggesting a change to the recording artist... she wants to add a different instrument to the mix (I'm thinking cello)... it's not a long scene, but I need to know how it all works... could she record something on the spot and add it to the album? How many mixes does it all go through?

You can tell I'm completely clueless...

A mixer is a console that has a number of channels, each dedicated to a microphone or line input, recording one specific thing. A drum set could have 10-15 mics on it alone (one for kick, two for snare, one for high hat, etc...). Usually, they decide on a tempo for the song and the drummer plays along to a click track. When it's fully recorded, they begin adding the other instruments, then the vocals last. Each channel has a series of controls (equalization, effects, stereo pan, etc...) that only affect that channel.

In the old days, the engineer would do everything (including overdubs) one at a time, then add effects, then put the finished product on a master tape. They'd make the tapes, records, CDs from that. Now computer software "remembers" each channel, so adding another instrument is as easy as calling up the song and overdubbing it. It's really cool to watch. A digital mixer will download the info and the faders will move by themselves to the place the engineer set them in the last session. Then you would just record the extra instrument on a blank channel and add it to the mix.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

lol - i actually thought you were recording. I had an image of you rushing out of a $500 and hour recording studio in a panic, to the nearest internet cafe to post this thread, with the meter running!


So, in a nutshell "adding a cello" at a late stage, as an afterthought, is very common. In fact it happened at the last recording I did, except it was a violin.

Because of studio costs, people try to get all the recording done in as few sessions as possible, but with even low-budget recordings the producer or recording artist might call in a session musician the next day, for a late addition to the mix.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

lol - i actually thought you were recording. I had an image of you rushing out of a $500 and hour recording studio in a panic, to the nearest internet cafe to post this thread, with the meter running!


So, in a nutshell "adding a cello" at a late stage, as an afterthought, is very common. In fact it happened at the last recording I did, except it was a violin.

Because of studio costs, people try to get all the recording done in as few sessions as possible, but with even low-budget recordings the producer or recording artist might call in a session musician the next day, for a late addition to the mix.

Ah... I wish I could play or sing or do anything that would get me into a recording studio, actually... but alas, all I can do is kind of warble mostly on-key...

This is all GREAT info, thank you...

So, S-Des... do they have laptops, then? Or mainframes right there in the studio?

 

[S-Des]

So, S-Des... do they have laptops, then? Or mainframes right there in the studio?

Mainframes...yes. My friend's studio is run off of a pair of Windows machines. I believe Apple is really big into that as well. It's a fairly expensive studio that records demos and complete albums, so it might make a good model. There are still people who record the old-fashioned way (it is only in the last 5 years or so that everything has changed), so you could go that route as well. The thing is, making everything digital brought the cost down extensively.

Another friend has a nice studio in his house that doesn't cost more than $100,000. A decade ago, that would be unheard of (a good recording counsole might cost more than that by itself). I can get you a rundown of the gear if you need it (it's not nearly as much of a hassle as it sounds like).

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Mainframes...yes. My friend's studio is run off of a pair of Windows machines. I believe Apple is really big into that as well. It's a fairly expensive studio that records demos and complete albums, so it might make a good model. There are still people who record the old-fashioned way (it is only in the last 5 years or so that everything has changed), so you could go that route as well. The thing is, making everything digital brought the cost down extensively.

Another friend has a nice studio in his house that doesn't cost more than $100,000. A decade ago, that would be unheard of (a good recording counsole might cost more than that by itself). I can get you a rundown of the gear if you need it (it's not nearly as much of a hassle as it sounds like).

You are a god!

Tell you what... will you look at the scene once it's written?? Then you can make suggestions and tell me what I missed? I think I have enough to try and fake it, now...

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

Studios tend tro get reputations for being good for certain types of music. And it's a combination of factors that makes studios special. I used to record in a studio that was literally a damp ceallr, with crappy equipment and a grizzled engineer with half-moon glasses. But all over the walls was graffiti from the top punk bands, all of whom could afford Abbey Road stiudios if they wanted. But they all loved the "dirty" sound of that studio.

The producer and engineer team are probably the main thing that people go for when they choose a studio.

When recording large bands and orchestras, who rarely overdub, then of course the acoustics of the room are very important.

Singers, being typically sensitive types, tend to need a good "atmosphere": literally the air quality, but they also tend to like the right lighting. A studio that lets in real daylight (which is rare because glass windows tend to let in outside sound too) is a big plus for some recording artists.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Studios tend tro get reputations for being good for certain types of music. And it's a combination of factors that makes studios special. I used to record in a studio that was literally a damp ceallr, with crappy equipment and a grizzled engineer with half-moon glasses. But all over the walls was graffiti from the top punk bands, all of whom could afford Abbey Road stiudios if they wanted. But they all loved the "dirty" sound of that studio.

The producer and engineer team are probably the main thing that people go for when they choose a studio.

When recording large bands and orchestras, who rarely overdub, then of course the acoustics of the room are very important.

Singers, being typically sensitive types, tend to need a good "atmosphere": literally the air quality, but they also tend to like the right lighting. A studio that lets in real daylight (which is rare because glass windows tend to let in outside sound too) is a big plus for some recording artists.

Ooooo all good info... thanks, doc! I'm essentially writing about a 'rock star'... so I imagine cost wouldn't be an issue... alternative type music, ala grunge...

I've been struggling with setting... does EVERYONE record in LA or NY??

 

[S-Des]

Studios tend tro get reputations for being good for certain types of music. And it's a combination of factors that makes studios special. I used to record in a studio that was literally a damp ceallr, with crappy equipment and a grizzled engineer with half-moon glasses. But all over the walls was graffiti from the top punk bands, all of whom could afford Abbey Road stiudios if they wanted. But they all loved the "dirty" sound of that studio.

The producer and engineer team are probably the main thing that people go for when they choose a studio.

When recording large bands and orchestras, who rarely overdub, then of course the acoustics of the room are very important.

Singers, being typically sensitive types, tend to need a good "atmosphere": literally the air quality, but they also tend to like the right lighting. A studio that lets in real daylight (which is rare because glass windows tend to let in outside sound too) is a big plus for some recording artists.

That is very true. I've recorded in places that made me very uncomfortable (but others didn't seem to have a problem). Usually I find it's the engineer. Since they have biases, they set up to record certain types of music, then try to shoehorn everyone else into it. The last place I recorded was more of a heavy-metal studio and I found it very condusive to recording for me.

SK, I am always happy to look over anything you'd like me to. You know you're my second favorite Kitty.

Edited to add: Everyone records everywhere these days. It used to be that they travelled to NY or LA. Nashville is really big as well. It's more about where the best studio musicians are. A lot of bands get "help" from studio musicians because they're not actually good enough to record their own songs.

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

Ooooo all good info... thanks, doc! I'm essentially writing about a 'rock star'... so I imagine cost wouldn't be an issue... alternative type music, ala grunge...

I've been struggling with setting... does EVERYONE record in LA or NY??

Rock bands? Pretty much. Or SF.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Rock bands? Pretty much. Or SF.

Ah there's an idea... thanks!

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

Ah there's an idea... thanks!

Oh, you don't want to go there, it's depraved there

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Death Metal Bands used to go to Florida (don't know why that genre grew so big down there, maybe it's all of the old people dying).

But yes, most US bands record in one of those two metropolises.

Some of the more independant artists have home studios, as do the larger more experienced bands (Van Halen and the Stones and a few members of Guns and Roses, or Motley Crue).

But I was shocked to hear a mixing console could cost $100,000 so easily. I know music stores don't carry the most high end stuff ont he floor, but the most expensive mixing table I have seen (20+ tracks) was only in the $5,000 range. Even with all of the various recording devices added in, $100,000 sounds a little high...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Oh, you don't want to go there, it's depraved there

well then I guess it's LA, since I've never set foot in NY...

 

[TheeGoatPig]

well then I guess it's LA, since I've never set foot in NY...

If you mean the City, don't. It's filled with assholes. However, there are some nice studios in the greater metropolitian area.

Dream Theater recorded a few of their CDs out in Rockland County.

 

[S-Des]

Death Metal Bands used to go to Florida (don't know why that genre grew so big down there, maybe it's all of the old people dying).

But yes, most US bands record in one of those two metropolises.

Some of the more independant artists have home studios, as do the larger more experienced bands (Van Halen and the Stones and a few members of Guns and Roses, or Motley Crue).

But I was shocked to hear a mixing console could cost $100,000 so easily. I know music stores don't carry the most high end stuff ont he floor, but the most expensive mixing table I have seen (20+ tracks) was only in the $5,000 range. Even with all of the various recording devices added in, $100,000 sounds a little high...

I was talking to an engineer mixing for Cinderella (a third tier, has-been band). He had a pair of live consoles (one for the opening bands, one for the headliners) that were over $50,000 each. Studio consoles are far more expensive. It also has to do with the number of channels and the quality of components (keeping the noise level down).

You can order a 24 channel SSL desk through Guitar Center that checks in at a smooth $89,000. If you really want to get something nice, Gamble makes a digital console (I believe it's called the MSX-34) that checks in at $350,000. These are live, not studio.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I was talking to an engineer mixing for Cinderella (a third tier, has-been band). He had a pair of live consoles (one for the opening bands, one for the headliners) that were over $50,000 each. Studio consoles are far more expensive. It also has to do with the number of channels and the quality of components (keeping the noise level down).

You can order a 24 channel SSL desk through Guitar Center that checks in at a smooth $89,000. If you really want to get something nice, Gamble makes a digital console (I believe it's called the MSX-34) that checks in at $350,000. These are live, not studio.

I remember Cinderella! These guys?

http://www.kq2.com/contests/rockneverstops/images/cinderella.jpg

I saw them when they opened for BonJovi back in the 80's... total glam band... but I liked the glam bands

 

[S-Des]

I remember Cinderella! These guys?

I saw them when they opened for BonJovi back in the 80's... total glam band... but I liked the glam bands

I was completely into glam bands... I loved the way these guys turned spinning the guitar around your body like a hoola-hoop into an art form.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I was completely into glam bands... I loved the way these guys turned spinning the guitar around your body like a hoola-hoop into an art form.

I fell totally in love with a glam band called "Candy" that opened for Corey Hart (anyone remember him? lol) ... they faded to obscurity, but then their lead singer, Kyle Vincent, made a teeny little comeback in the 90's and I saw him open for Joe Cocker... and he's faded into obscurity yet again... sheesh... the music biz is almost as bad as the book biz...

 

[angelicminx]

I LOVED Cinderella! I was totally into the 'hair bands' and played their 'Night Songs' album to death.



I've been to a studio in a guy's basement that was pretty cool. The sound quality was great, I couldn't tell the difference between his recordings and larger studios'. He had a small, 8 track, mixer attached to his desktop computer. The mixing program he uses is phenomenal and easy to use (I've used it myself, though I don't have the rest of the equipment just yet). He told me that I can get everything I need to turn my current PC into a 'studio' for under $300. Of course, all I need it for is to cut demos of my songs to sell to people who can actually sing.