Multiculturalism will be the death of us all

[Ham Murabi]

Por ejemplo.

When the first wave of Cubans first arrived in Miami I was astounded by the culture. Having been primarily exposed to the Mexican culture I thought I was seeing something quite unique. The family bought a house and everyone went to work. Soon enough the house was paid off, and then they bought another house for the oldest son. And the whole family worked to pay that off. My thought was, "How marvelous to see a family work together to achive goals."

I was envious of such a culture. But I had forgotten the lessons of the Patrone system. The family sticks together no matter what. And soon enough the Cubans had elected a Cuban mayor who had appointed a family member as the financial officer of the city and soon after that the city was bankrupt. You see, it didn't matter whether tio Ernesto was a mouth breathing idiot, he was family. The European monarchy model imported on a local scale.

And that is the underlying cultural aspects that have to be considered, not the food, or the clothes, or the quaint accent.

Ishmael

And Al Pacino, too. Who knew he was Cuban?
I don't mind Mexicans becoming Americans, as long as they can leave a big part of their culture - the corruption - behind. We've got enough of that already.

 

[Drinking Cap]

LMAO!

So the cubans practice nepotism and Bush practices cronyism.

The end result is exactly the same.

When Ish favours assimilation, what he means is that the Cuban mayor of Miami should have appointed his idiot golf buddy, rather than his idiot brother.

 

[garbage can]

You've missed the point. Your own example shows that the Chinese and Indians have assimilated and have become Canadians. .

The orientals, IMO, have been assimilated very well into the Western culture, the Indians, not so well, the Islamic fundalmentalist, never.

 

[zipman]

And Al Pacino, too. Who knew he was Cuban?
I don't mind Mexicans becoming Americans, as long as they can leave a big part of their culture - the corruption - behind. We've got enough of that already.

Actually, when it comes to politics we just legalized it. It's still the same in just about every government.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

The problem is that multiculturalism takes an agnostic view on any view a particular culture takes. I agree that keeping an open mind about things is generally the right approach, but one has to recognize that the purpose of keeping an open mind is so that it will eventually close on something, hopefully superior in nature.

It does try to limit value judgements between cultures (and you'll admit there's a ugly history that accompanies one culture considering itself superior to others). IMO, the only time our minds ought to close is if we assume we're living in the best possible culture. Ours is good, but I'm not convinced others don't have something to teach us.

 

[Drinking Cap]

The orientals, IMO, have been assimilated very well into the Western culture, the Indians, not so well, the Islamic fundalmentalist, never.

But, really, that can be said about just about any fundamentalist.

 

[Gringao]

It does try to limit value judgements between cultures (and you'll admit there's a ugly history that accompanies one culture considering itself superior to others). IMO, the only time our minds ought to close is if we assume we're living in the best possible culture. Ours is good, but I'm not convinced others don't have something to teach us.

I agree completely but that is not, unfortunately, multiculturalism as it is practiced today. I actually read the words of the leader of a campus feminist organization at Yale as she gurgled an inane apologia for the Taliban's barbaric treatment of women...all for that Talib Goebbles they've admitted. Do we really have anything to learn from the Taliban's treatment of women?

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Are you trying to say that multiculturism dictates that we should embrace all forms of cultural identy without a "judgement" aka the PC police.....that one weekend the girl scout troop down the street will sell girl scout cookies and then the next practice the art of creating shrunken heads? lol....I wouldn't be surprised if we got some arguments in favor of this approach.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

It does try to limit value judgements between cultures (and you'll admit there's a ugly history that accompanies one culture considering itself superior to others). IMO, the only time our minds ought to close is if we assume we're living in the best possible culture. Ours is good, but I'm not convinced others don't have something to teach us.

I like that we often take the best from some and discard those we find less appealing. Viva la Cinco de Mayo!

 

[Drinking Cap]

I agree completely but that is not, unfortunately, multiculturalism as it is practiced today. I actually read the words of the leader of a campus feminist organization at Yale as she gurgled an inane apologia for the Taliban's barbaric treatment of women...all for that Talib Goebbles they've admitted. Do we really have anything to learn from the Taliban's treatment of women?

Sure, inasmuch as you can learn what not to do.

But that doesn't strike me as being all that true. I went to as left-wing and mushy a school as exists and the topic of the Taliban came up frequently. I never heard anything but condemnation.

 

[Ishmael]

And Al Pacino, too. Who knew he was Cuban?
I don't mind Mexicans becoming Americans, as long as they can leave a big part of their culture - the corruption - behind. We've got enough of that already.

It's how they, all of the 'theys' do business. Each in their own way.

Another example. The American Indian were thieves. This was a part of their culture and an important one. The skills required for thievery were of paramount importance in a hunter/gatherer world. Unfortunately for them those important survival skills were of little value in a nation of law. By continually practicing those things that were a part of their culture, they ensured the destruction of their culture.

In other words, a new paradigm of culture had rendered theirs superfluous.

Ishmael

 

[Gringao]

Sure, inasmuch as you can learn what not to do.

But that doesn't strike me as being all that true. I went to as left-wing and mushy a school as exists and the topic of the Taliban came up frequently. I never heard anything but condemnation.

This feminist's take was not one of using the Taliban as a bad example, but admonishing those that would judge their treatment of women harshly. See, it was their way of doing things, so we can't look down on them...

 

[Drinking Cap]

This feminist's take was not one of using the Taliban as a bad example, but admonishing those that would judge their treatment of women harshly. See, it was their way of doing things, so we can't look down on them...

I obviously can't speak to something I didn't read but my experience with the Feministas speaks very differently to how they commented on the situation in Afhghanistan.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I agree completely but that is not, unfortunately, multiculturalism as it is practiced today. I actually read the words of the leader of a campus feminist organization at Yale as she gurgled an inane apologia for the Taliban's barbaric treatment of women...all for that Talib Goebbles they've admitted. Do we really have anything to learn from the Taliban's treatment of women?

I guess it depends on your definition of "learn from". I agree completely that it's a cultural practice that we ought not tolerate here (and ought to discourage there), but seeing it and learning from it ought to help us keep in mind what values we want to keep over here.

It's a different question when questions of national sovereignty come into play. I agree that it's something that shouldn't or can't abide here, but over there is a bit trickier.

 

[Gringao]

I guess it depends on your definition of "learn from". I agree completely that it's a cultural practice that we ought not tolerate here (and ought to discourage there), but seeing it and learning from it ought to help us keep in mind what values we want to keep over here.

It's a different question when questions of national sovereignty come into play. I agree that it's something that shouldn't or can't abide here, but over there is a bit trickier.

I don't think we need to mince words - it's evil no matter where it's practiced. It's not a matter of sovereignty at all. Sovereignty comes into play when you start to talk about what, if anything, to do about it.

As Mark Steyn once said, multiculturalism is where one shows his sensitivity to other cultures by being completely insensitive to his own. In a broad sense, I think that's precisely what it is.

 

[Cade Is Here]

survival of the fittest

 

[Ishmael]

I guess it depends on your definition of "learn from". I agree completely that it's a cultural practice that we ought not tolerate here (and ought to discourage there), but seeing it and learning from it ought to help us keep in mind what values we want to keep over here.

It's a different question when questions of national sovereignty come into play. I agree that it's something that shouldn't or can't abide here, but over there is a bit trickier.

If you aren't willing to stand up for you're own culture, you have none. - Ishmael

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I like that we often take the best from some and discard those we find less appealing. Viva la Cinco de Mayo!

And I find it interesting that we tend to embrace the holidays from each culture that involve partying and drinking lots of beer (Cinco, St. Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras).

We don't seem to embrace many of the days of sacrifice for some reason.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

And I find it interesting that we tend to embrace the holidays from each culture that involve partying and drinking lots of beer (Cinco, St. Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras).

We don't seem to embrace many of the days of sacrifice for some reason.

Yeah, isn't that great...and I don't even drink.

 

[Ishmael]

And I find it interesting that we tend to embrace the holidays from each culture that involve partying and drinking lots of beer (Cinco, St. Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras).

We don't seem to embrace many of the days of sacrifice for some reason.

Sign of the times Ollie. It's all free bubble up and rainbow stew.

Ishmael

 

[hurricane64]

ALL HAIL...ALL HAIL...

ALL HAIL...

ALL...

All hail the signs and harbingers of mediocrity in American society...

All Hail...

All Hail...

Wait.

This started at least 15 years ago.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I don't think we need to mince words - it's evil no matter where it's practiced. It's not a matter of sovereignty at all. Sovereignty comes into play when you start to talk about what, if anything, to do about it.

As Mark Steyn once said, multiculturalism is where one shows his sensitivity to other cultures by being completely insensitive to his own. In a broad sense, I think that's precisely what it is.

I agree with regard to words. We ought to say as much and as loudly as we like how we're disgusted. Economic sanctions are great in my book too.

I was mainly referring to attempts to overthrow governments/physically intervene on the behalf of our cultural values. For example, democratizing Iraq (not that this was the real reason the war was joined or is being fought today).

If you aren't willing to stand up for you're own culture, you have none. - Ishmael

If a culture comes along that tops this one, I'm bailing in a second.

 

[Gringao]

I agree with regard to words. We ought to say as much and as loudly as we like how we're disgusted. Economic sanctions are great in my book too.

I'm not sure of the efficacy of such sanctions against tyrannies that are already utterly indifferent to, or even delight in, the suffering of their subjugated populations. As Christopher Hitchens noted, Afghanistan is the first nation ever bombed out of the Stone Age.

 

[Ishmael]

If a culture comes along that tops this one, I'm bailing in a second.

Better hold on to what you got then Ollie. Because bailing now is like freefall. "Dave, don't do this Dave."

Ishmael

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I'm not sure of the efficacy of such sanctions against tyrannies that are already utterly indifferent to, or even delight in, the suffering of their subjugated populations. As Christopher Hitchens noted, Afghanistan is the first nation ever bombed out of the Stone Age.

I don't think it's there yet, but it may yet get there. We deceive ourselves if we believe that any of the advances that accrue in that nation come from the tenderer human motives. The Taliban took power in Afghanistan in the chaos that followed the US abandoning that nation. Not a peep about that oppressive regime was heard until terrorists trained there started wrecking our buildings.

The culture we're mainly interested in spreading today is the consumer culture. If they're not trying to kill us and they're buying our products, we're happier than pigs in shit.