Multiculturalism v. Diversity

bellisarius

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I'm launching this off this thread'

Theil on multiculturalism

Reading through that thread there were a lot of good comments, whether I agreed or not. So I'm starting this thread to express my thoughts on the subject specifically in regard to the US.

To start out I'm going to state that multi-multiculturalism and diversity are NOT the same. Culture by it's very nature is tribal in nature. One of the best examples I know of is Swift's "Gulliver's Travels." An excellent example of tribal culture. Diversity is you say tomAto, I say tomatO. We may both think each other odd, but it's the difference isn't worth a confrontation.

Confrontations begin where the underlying cultural differences are so profound that there can be no reconciliation. Going to extremes here, an example would be to accommodate a Borneo head hunter in the interests of multi-culturalism. Diverse? You bet. Want hm/her practicing their culture next door?

For years the US school systems have been teaching that "we're all the same." In a biological sense that's true, in a cultural sense nothing could be further from the truth. All cultures are not equivalent. You have to make a decision at some point which 'tribe' you want to follow.

A poster in the thread I've referenced made the point that the US has groups that celebrate different things. The Italians do this, the Germans that, etc. At the founding of this nation there was a serious discussion as to whether we should be bi-lingual (German-English) or not. English was decided upon for two reasons. The first being that due to linguistic nuances there is no way law can be be written, let alone administered, across two languages. The second being that the underlying ethos were essentially the same. (As I recall the poster made reference to 'Protestant' underpinning's. He/she was correct there too, the Roman Catholics were here and had a voice as well. The agreement was to base our legal system on Judaeo/Christian ethics. Ironically an ethos that has a great deal in common with the more advanced Asian and even the ancient Egyptian/Roman ethos.

If you, as a group, march in lock-step based solely on your race, cultural origin, religion, sexual orientation or other such notions, then you're tribal. Not all that far removed from the Hutu's and the Tutis's. And that's the path to civil war.
 
We have a plethora of example on this board for the admiration of "Socialism" in the sharply defined tribal nations of places in Europe, where the culture is dominated by a shared tribalism, and the ensuing plaint, why can not this large polyglot nation successfully co-opt that Socialism and cultural harmony?

Everyone who shares in this love of Socialism is delusional and the delusion is that the new Socialist society will be what they imagine it to be and not what the other "tribes" imagine it to be. Tribes have a history. Imposing Socialism does not create a new tribe.
 
richard_daily
This message is hidden because richard_daily is on your ignore list.

I don't think that very many people have any interest as to what you think/hate.
 
The funny thing is that diversity has been redefined to mean that we accept all sorts of multiculturalism, as long as it accepts and adopts our "tribal" concepts.
 
I found myself both agreeing and disagreeing with you, because there were parts where I wasn't exactly sure that I fully understood what you meant.

So in response to the potentially more contentious part of your post:




Unlike you ? (if I understood you correctly),
I Am for a Borneo head hunter (metaphorically speaking, as you mentioned) to practice his culture next door.
As long as he gives up those practices that clash with or might anihilate our Western values.

Any potential immigrant who wants a wealthier country to help and take him in should reciprocate by making accomodations too.

The most recent example being Greece.
In a historic move, they recently passed a law in which the Muslim minority would no longer be bound by Sharia law. One of the first movements on the part of A western government, towards liberating Muslim women.

Once you eliminate/outlaw those cultural practices that make the Borneo headhunter unique then you no longer have a headhunter. In effect you have destroyed the notion of 'multi-culturalism.' And that may be a good thing to do.

You make mention of Greece and Sharia law. Fine, the Greeks outlawed a component of the Muslim religion that makes Islam unique among religions. History has not shown that to be very effective. Basically all they've done is created a perpetual oppressed minority. The practices may be outlawed but they will continue behind closed doors. Some nations have allowed the Muslims to practice Sharia Law to a limited degree within their own communities. That too is doomed to failure in the long term. The entire concept of equality before the law is turned on its head. A legal system for one group and a different system for another. If two legal systems are permissible why not three, or four, or more? Why shouldn't some group be able to get together and make up their own legal system? One legal system for the Amish, another for the Neo-Nazi's and yet another for the..........well, you get the picture.

Bringing it down to a personal level the immigrant is a guest in our nation not altogether different than a quest you invite into your home. As a host you have an obligation to extend hospitality. However you are under NO obligation whatsoever to tolerate bad behavior. It is perfectly acceptable to boot their ass out of your house and never invite them back again. And if the potential guest has a history of causing trouble why would you invite them into your house to begin with?
 
This is why Jackson eliminated the Cherokee Nation and sent them down the Trail of Tears. The irony, to me, is that all of the nations, they were the ones who strove to be "white."
 
Bringing it down to a personal level the immigrant is a guest in our nation not altogether different than a quest you invite into your home. As a host you have an obligation to extend hospitality. However you are under NO obligation whatsoever to tolerate bad behavior. It is perfectly acceptable to boot their ass out of your house and never invite them back again. And if the potential guest has a history of causing trouble why would you invite them into your house to begin with?

Wat is an expert in this arena. :D :D :D Perhaps we should put this question to him.
 
This is why Jackson eliminated the Cherokee Nation and sent them down the Trail of Tears. The irony, to me, is that all of the nations, they were the ones who strove to be "white."

This true, They even invented a written language for themselves. But they still treated with foreign powers and Jackson fully understood that that could not be tolerated so he forcibly removed them from within the confines of the existing US borders. A sordid chapter in US history, but unavoidable.
 
This true, They even invented a written language for themselves. But they still treated with foreign powers and Jackson fully understood that that could not be tolerated so he forcibly removed them from within the confines of the existing US borders. A sordid chapter in US history, but unavoidable.

Stupid Fawkin'Injuns!

OK, that's funny. :D

Of course it is. It includes a grain of truth.
 
Good morning Ishmael! Any recurrence of your cancer? I'll say a prayer for you in church today!

I agree with you that multiculturalism is separate and distinct from diversity.

There is also an important tenet in American law that says that "reasonable accomodation" must be made whenever possible to support the beliefs of others.

That's why things like "honor killings" and beheadings are not permitted under the law. They may be an integral part of other cultures, but they run contrary to the Constitution and as such are prohibited.

As an aside, that is why your oft-stated bogeyman "Sharia Law" will never take precendence over the Constitution here in Murica. People can choose to subject themselves to Sharia law insofar as it is compatible with the Constitution, but people cannot force others to abide by their own religious convictions, Focus of the Family efforts notwithstanding

A "reasonable accommodation" might be as simple as wearing a turban for religious purposes. Wearing a turban in public seems to offend your sense of propriety almost as much as wearing a Star of David once offended your father.

Given the above framework, your "but...but...Borneo head-hunters" spluttering is nothing more than hand-wringing histrionics so often seen from you and your tribe.
 
Another “doze people are so weird, not like us at all“ thread.
 
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