Move Over EXXON, Florida Man Makes You Redundant!

[JackLuis]

A New Material is Able to Create Hydrogen Fuel From Seawater

There exists a wide range of renewable energy sources support our increasingly energy-intensive lives as fossil fuels are ultimately phased out. One of these new potential sources of energy is as promising as it is strange. University of Central Florida (UCF) researcher and assistant professor Yang Yang has developed a breakthrough hybrid nanomaterial that uses the power of an existing green energy source, solar energy, to turn seawater into hydrogen fuel.

The nanomaterial began with an ultrathin sheet of titanium dioxide (the most common photocatalyst), into which nanocavities were carved. Nanoflakes of molybdenum disulfide, a 2D material as thick as a single atom, then coated these cavities. This material is nearly twice as effective as most other photocatalysts because instead of converting a limited range of light into energy, it can turn ultraviolet-visible to near-infrared light wavelengths into energy — a much wider range.

If this nanomaterial is used on a larger-scale, the process could help generate a substantial amount of green energy, replacing fossil fuels and pushing us forward in the fight against climate change. In the immediate, it could also help bolster Florida’s economy: with abundant sea water and the state’s current efforts to recover from the devastation of Hurricane Irma, such a boost would no doubt be welcomed.

It might be a boon to Porto Rico too? They have lots of sun and sea water.

 

[Hypoxia]

Passively-produced hydrogen fed to immediately-adjacent turbine generators sparking a power grid -- good. It could also feed nearby chemical industries. But H2 is not a transportation fuel. Don't throw away your batteries, kids.

 

[phrodeau]

Passively-produced hydrogen fed to immediately-adjacent turbine generators sparking a power grid -- good. It could also feed nearby chemical industries. But H2 is not a transportation fuel. Don't throw away your batteries, kids.

Hydrogen is already used as a transportation fuel.

http://gofuelcellbus.com/uploads/Cleveland_RTA_to_Unveil_Nonpolluting_Hydrogen-Fueled_Bus.jpg

 

[Hypoxia]

Hydrogen is already used as a transportation fuel.

At what cost? With what efficiency?

H2 isn't a fuel; it's a storage medium, an energy carrier, an inefficient battery. Wastefully store energy in H2 by electrolyzing H2O. Release some of that energy by recombining with O2. Hope not too many wee little H2 molecules slip through containment during transport. Better burn-em up fast.

Economics determines H2's transportation future. Will H2 hardware and use cost less as an energy carrier than electric batteries and motors? Pure H2 makes metals brittle. I doubt ceramic-lined engines are cheap. IMHO H2 is a gimmick.

 

[phrodeau]

At what cost? With what efficiency?

H2 isn't a fuel; it's a storage medium, an energy carrier, an inefficient battery. Wastefully store energy in H2 by electrolyzing H2O. Release some of that energy by recombining with O2. Hope not too many wee little H2 molecules slip through containment during transport. Better burn-em up fast.

Economics determines H2's transportation future. Will H2 hardware and use cost less as an energy carrier than electric batteries and motors? Pure H2 makes metals brittle. I doubt ceramic-lined engines are cheap. IMHO H2 is a gimmick.

Your link is to the Wikipedia page titled, "hydrogen fuel."

If you want to be technical, all fuels are storage media for potential energy.

And hydrogen doesn't run engines. It powers fuel cells which convert the chemical reaction to electricity to run a motor that's nowhere near the hydrogen.

 

[JackLuis]

Imagine, if you will, a large solar collector, on the coast of Texas, Puerto Rico, Georgia, California, made of H2 conversion cells feeding a series of fuel cells that store energy in large batteries which feed DC/AC inverters that power the national grid?

Imagine, if you will, charging stations along the grid to charge electrical trucks shipping the produce watered by the resultant H2O generated by the hydrolyzing plants.

Imagine the production plants and construction labor needed to build such plants and how much the economy would benefit from the industry necessary for such an integrated power system.

Surely $100 billion dollars, or so could be found in the national budget to start building such an infrastructure, rather than dumping more money into F-35s, F-22s and more aircraft carriers to enforce American Hegemony on a unwilling world.

 

[sr71plt]

Imagine, if you will, a large solar collector, on the coast of Texas, Puerto Rico, Georgia, California, made of H2 conversion cells feeding a series of fuel cells that store energy in large batteries which feed DC/AC inverters that power the national grid?

Imagine, if you will, charging stations along the grid to charge electrical trucks shipping the produce watered by the resultant H2O generated by the hydrolyzing plants.

Imagine the production plants and construction labor needed to build such plants and how much the economy would benefit from the industry necessary for such an integrated power system.

Surely $100 billion dollars, or so could be found in the national budget to start building such an infrastructure, rather than dumping more money into F-35s, F-22s and more aircraft carriers to enforce American Hegemony on a unwilling world.

Let's go over again which of us declares expertise on any topic that comes up on the board, Jack. (Yes, I remember that it's been days since you've been challenged to acknowledge you don't know everything--because you falsely accused me of that--and you won't acknowledge that you don't know everything.)

 

[JackLuis]

Let's go over again which of us declares expertise on any topic that comes up on the board, Jack. (Yes, I remember that it's been days since you've been challenged to acknowledge you don't know everything--because you falsely accused me of that--and you won't acknowledge that you don't know everything.)

Have I ever said that I know everything about everything, Pilot? I do try to add constructive comments on the board, mostly. I do try to stay on topic and not just slander my fellow contributors. Well except BB and a few others who get carried away with outlandish unconstructive condemnation of others.

How have you constructively added to our conversations, other than on writing?

How has your last comment contributed to the topic of green energy or a systemic solution to the problems brought on by fossil fuel use?

When you get bitchy I try to ignore you, rather than join you in a flame war.

 

[Hypoxia]

Your link is to the Wikipedia page titled, "hydrogen fuel."

Did you read it? That's where I found the phrase "energy carrier."

If you want to be technical, all fuels are storage media for potential energy.

Not on a human time scale. Energy stored aeons ago needs only a relatively small expenditure NOW to release that energy. Use of H2 requires expending more energy NOW than is released. Inefficient... and thus will be obsoleted by more efficient systems. Waste is expensive.

And hydrogen doesn't run engines. It powers fuel cells which convert the chemical reaction to electricity to run a motor that's nowhere near the hydrogen.

Each step there adds complexity and lowers efficiency.

Imagine, if you will, a large solar collector, on the coast of Texas, Puerto Rico, Georgia, California, made of H2 conversion cells feeding a series of fuel cells that store energy in large batteries which feed DC/AC inverters that power the national grid?

Would the conversion+fuel cells array be less expensive to fabricate and maintain than direct-conversion solar-electric panels which are cheaper and more efficient with each iteration? Solar-electric arrays needn't be near fragile coastlines; their metal components won't be embrittled by H2. What are the life-cycles of these technologies -- which will need more frequent maintenance and replacement?

Follow the money.

 

[phrodeau]

Did you read it? That's where I found the phrase "energy carrier."

Not on a human time scale. Energy stored aeons ago needs only a relatively small expenditure NOW to release that energy. Use of H2 requires expending more energy NOW than is released. Inefficient... and thus will be obsoleted by more efficient systems. Waste is expensive.

Each step there adds complexity and lowers efficiency.

Would the conversion+fuel cells array be less expensive to fabricate and maintain than direct-conversion solar-electric panels which are cheaper and more efficient with each iteration? Solar-electric arrays needn't be near fragile coastlines; their metal components won't be embrittled by H2. What are the life-cycles of these technologies -- which will need more frequent maintenance and replacement?

Follow the money.

What you describe is a fossil fuel, a specific type of fuel.

We are now seeing what the costs of using fossil fuels truly are, and they are not cheap.

Solar-electric panels are much less practical than hydrogen as a transportation energy source.

 

[Hypoxia]

Solar-electric panels are much less practical than hydrogen as a transportation energy source.

Citation? Really, please.

 

[jaF0]

There exists a wide range of renewable energy sources support our increasingly energy-intensive lives as fossil fuels are ultimately phased out. One of these new potential sources of energy is as promising as it is strange. University of Central Florida (UCF) researcher and assistant professor Yang Yang has developed a breakthrough hybrid nanomaterial that uses the power of an existing green energy source, solar energy, to turn seawater into hydrogen fuel.

The nanomaterial began with an ultrathin sheet of titanium dioxide (the most common photocatalyst), into which nanocavities were carved. Nanoflakes of molybdenum disulfide, a 2D material as thick as a single atom, then coated these cavities. This material is nearly twice as effective as most other photocatalysts because instead of converting a limited range of light into energy, it can turn ultraviolet-visible to near-infrared light wavelengths into energy — a much wider range.

Nanoo, nanoo out the Yang Yang.

 

[phrodeau]

Citation? Really, please.

One, the surface area of a vehicle is not large enough to provide adequate power from solar panels, even the heavy-duty ones.

Two, they aren't effective in cloudy weather or at night.

 

[jaF0]

Well, there ARE solar powered cars. They even have races and cross country events. But they're funny looking and completely impractical for daily driver/commuter use. So far.

 

[DrDelirium]

One, the surface area of a vehicle is not large enough to provide adequate power from solar panels, even the heavy-duty ones.

Two, they aren't effective in cloudy weather or at night.

Are you suggesting that this nanomaterial and a bunch of sea water will be carried around on vehicles? That would still only work in the daylight. You're doing apples and oranges. Either technology requires fixed installations for energy 'production,' and some system of making that energy available to vehicles.
Batteries are nasty, dirty things and are not very green at all, at this stage of the game, so I'm all for technologies that don't use them, but it's not at all clear that this approach is economically viable, as interesting as it is. For one thing, it seems to depend on titanium, which is an expensive and difficult to work material.
Plants are pretty good at converting sunlight, water and carbon dioxide into free oxygen and hydrocarbon fuels, without a lot of rare and expensive materials. Any technology that depends on current plant growth for energy is carbon neutral, too. I think we should go back to wood-burning steam engines.

 

[JackLuis]

The Spanish developed a system that uses algae, grown in a glass tank to be converted into fuel that seemed promising. It might make waste water useful and coupled with solar stills could be used to create potable water too. I'm not sure that salt water could be used for algae production but, who knows?

There are lots of technologies that haven't been proven to be efficient, like ethanol which uses more fuel that it produces, but is highly subsidized to make corn farmers happy.

Brazil uses ethanol made from cane sugar to power it's cars. That might make Louisiana and Florida happy and more productive. Switch grass and Hemp also can be used to make fuel, but aren't depleting our food supply like Corn Ethanol.

Maybe if Congress pulled their heads out of their asses and subsidized alternative solutions rather than petroleum/gas production we'd get a lot further ahead?

 

[DrDelirium]

The Spanish developed a system that uses algae, grown in a glass tank to be converted into fuel that seemed promising. It might make waste water useful and coupled with solar stills could be used to create potable water too. I'm not sure that salt water could be used for algae production but, who knows?

There are lots of technologies that haven't been proven to be efficient, like ethanol which uses more fuel that it produces, but is highly subsidized to make corn farmers happy.

Brazil uses ethanol made from cane sugar to power it's cars. That might make Louisiana and Florida happy and more productive. Switch grass and Hemp also can be used to make fuel, but aren't depleting our food supply like Corn Ethanol.

Maybe if Congress pulled their heads out of their asses and subsidized alternative solutions rather than petroleum/gas production we'd get a lot further ahead?

The whole point of corn ethanol is to deplete our food supply.

 

[phrodeau]

The whole point of corn ethanol is to deplete our food supply.

Well, it hasn't done that.

 

[DrDelirium]

Well, it hasn't done that.

It has, and it does every day. It diverts food into the fuel supply, which keeps ag prices from plunging. Part of the price of ethanol is higher food prices.

 

[phrodeau]

It has, and it does every day. It diverts food into the fuel supply, which keeps ag prices from plunging. Part of the price of ethanol is higher food prices.

That is a long way from depleting the food supply, which was your claim.

 

[JackLuis]

That is a long way from depleting the food supply, which was your claim.

Tell that to Mexicans who can't afford tortillias.

 

[DrDelirium]

That is a long way from depleting the food supply, which was your claim.

I didn't say 'exhausting' our food supply.

 

[phrodeau]

Let’s see the breakdown on corn distribution between ethanol, cattle, whiskey and sweeteners. Then we can discuss which use is best for America.

 

[DrDelirium]

Let’s see the breakdown on corn distribution between ethanol, cattle, whiskey and sweeteners. Then we can discuss which use is best for America.

Whiskey. Duh.

 

[Hypoxia]

Whiskey. Duh.

Indeed. Why waste maize corn on energy-inefficient ethanol or even more inefficient livestock feed when it can be put to use stimulating imaginations and taste buds, seducing the ambivalent, and inducing vomiting? Good as a roach-killer, too.

[/me pours another double-shot of Black Velvet -- yeah, it's Canuck, thus /me is disloyal, so /me shall switch to tequila, made from agave roots, not maize]

Yes, new technologies are vital, and possible energy systems must be explored for viability. We have no idea yet which may hit prime time. Hydrogen-fired steam turbines may be the motive power of the future, or mini-fusion reactors, or tapping quantum energy, quien sabe, who can say? Or mutant-hamster wheels.

But politics will be as pivotal as technology. Ethanol is purely a sick political game. Will Gup-aligned Big Oil and Big Coal etc shut down advanced techs so they can continue milking their old cash cows? Never underestimate the power of toxic greed.
_____

We saw the energy cycle when we recently crossed Kansas -- oil wells feeding fertilizer plants, feeding maize corn fields, feeding food- and ethanol-makers and distillers and cattle lots, feeding slaughterhouses, feeding McFood outlets fueled by the same chthonic petrol. Windmill farms crawl over the horizon threatening change. Will the energy revolution be televised?