More Musings for writers and thinkers...

[amicus]

More Musings for writers and thinkers…


Dual, coalescing thoughts inspired by Blade Runner, a film with Harrison Ford, Sean Young, Rutger Hauer and Daryl Hannah…some lines spoken by Rutger Hauer, a ‘Replicant’; artificial intelligent life form with an expiration date, who was about to die…

The screen play was adapted from a book I think, by Philip K. Dick for you sci fi fans, “Do Android’s Dream of Electric Sheep?”

As the Android is about to expire he relates the sadness of his existence and all that he has seen in the far corners of the Galaxy by the following words:

“All those moments
will be lost in time
like tears in the rain…”


And upon his death, Harrison Ford questions why the Android saved his life while his own life was waning with the following words:

“He wanted to know the same things we all do,
Where did I come from
Where am I going
And how long have I got…?”


It is quite a good film if you have not seen it and includes some of my all time favorite actors, Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, and of course an ongoing celebrity crush on Daryl Hannah and Sean Young; permit me my fantasies.

The musical score is interesting also and the waning chords in the closing scenes reminded me of Brazilian Samba’s, actually Portuguese music which I have found to be romantically sensual and always with a transitory sense of sadness in the melody.

The surrealistic scenery in Blade Runner is typical of a whole genre of apocalyptic visions of an over crowded, polluted, mechanized future, but what else can you expect from Hollywood and the writers they promote, still, all in all, one of my all time favorite films.

As before, not much meat here to sink your teeth in to as an argument or disagreement. We are, if ever, centuries away from manufacturing artificial life forms such as the androids in this film and I suppose the underlying questions were involved with whether or not AI’s have the same rights as humans and should they be developed at all. I have long been a fan of Science Fiction and read the Asimov, (I think) novel, “I Robot”, way back in the 1950’s.

As an aside, I have personally been disappointed in the rate of progress of science insofar as it involves traveling to the Moon and Mars and colonies in space. I now begin to realize that the gap between science and science fiction, is much wider than I comprehended, oh, so long ago.

Just musings…


Amicus…

 

[Huckleman2000]

You know, Amicus, when you get in these pensive moods, you really come up with some interesting ruminations. Despite myself, it leads me to believe that going fishing with you in the late afternoon, with more beer (or wine or weed, whatever,) than bait, and a few good cigars to keep the bugs away, and some reliable life jackets so I wouldn't have to actually make a choice between saving you or not , that would actually be quite a pleasant experience.

I've never seen 'Blade Runner', and I've always wanted to. I picked up 'Neuromancer' at a used book sale for Breast Cancer at my neighborhood supermarket, so maybe I'll start to revist some sci-fi classics after my move. They sound interesting. And Daryl Hannah and Sean Young are hot, and quite mad by most accounts. Hot and mentally ill - I see your angle here....

 

[amicus]

I have to chuckle, Huck, I doubt we'll shower together and get all warm and fuzzy, and I seldom relate to other men...although I have about the same feelings you express for Oggbashan, who seems an interesting sort.

Pensive mood...yes...sighs...I have another large disruptive move on the near horizon and have been in somewhat of a holding pattern for several weeks which disrupts my thinking and writing and leads to such excursions as these.

I do appreciate your kind comments...although I am not familiar with the work you cited.

Hmmm...in passing, enpassant...men are rather solitary creatures, I have discovered, whereas women seem much more comfortable in flocks and coveys. The few men I have been close to were always younger and seeking knowledge or something and when they gained it, faded away. With older men, we just nod and smile and with equals, well, we usually back off and go our own way.

Being an Alpha male is a thing unto itself, I suspect.

Good luck...


amicus...

 

[impressive]

Happy New Year, ami.

Blade Runner is on my list of favorite movies for the very reasons/introspections you posted.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Director's cut is much better, dumps that happy Hollywood ending and really explains that Deckard is a replicant. Also does away with the voiceover narration.

Interesting story about that. After test screenings, apparently the studio pressured director Ridley Scott and Ford into adding the single-person narration, otherwise "no one knows what the fuck's going on." Ford deliberately recorded it in a bland disinterested monotone, hoping that the studio would drop it. Of course they loved it, and the studio version (complete with a tacked-on ending sequence with scenes swiped from The Shining) was eventually what made it to theaters.

 

[amicus]

impressive]Happy New Year, ami.

Blade Runner is on my list of favorite movies for the very reasons/introspections you posted.

[/I]

~~~

Happy New Year, Imp and pleasant to know we share something at least.

ciao


amicus...

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Seattle Zack]Director's cut is much better, dumps that happy Hollywood ending and really explains that Deckard is a replicant. Also does away with the voiceover narration.

Interesting story about that. After test screenings, apparently the studio pressured director Ridley Scott and Ford into adding the single-person narration, otherwise "no one knows what the fuck's going on." Ford deliberately recorded it in a bland disinterested monotone, hoping that the studio would drop it. Of course they loved it, and the studio version (complete with a tacked-on ending sequence with scenes swiped from The Shining) was eventually what made it to theaters.[/QUOTE]

~~~~

Hmmm....not sure I comprehend the tone of your comments...I like the happy Hollywood ending as you put it and I thought the 'voiceover' Mickey Spillane style was perfectly done. And I never watched "The Shining" so I have no idea. I suppose one would have to read the book to see if Deckard, Harrison Ford, was really a Replicant, as Sean Young questioned that in the film.

However, I like it that he is mortal...adds a poignant flavor to the romance aspect.

amicus...

 

[Huckleman2000]

Well, I wasn't talking man-crush or anything. I mean, I've enjoyed going fishing with my ex-father-in-law, before he was ex-, and probably would again. A whole fishing trip would probably get old, but I could see an afternoon or morning. Your daughter must be about graduating from college, my son is also. There are things we could commiserate about. Showering, I'd insist on private stalls.

Actually, Ogg would be a good addition.

We'd also need SeaCat, just in case we caught anything. Or had problems with hooks or filetting knives. Someone with medical knowledge is probably a necessity, now I think about it.

Have you ever been ice fishing? You, Ogg, SeaCat, and me in an ice house for an afternoon.

That has 'Classic' written all over it.

 

[amicus]

"...Have you ever been ice fishing? You, Ogg, SeaCat, and me in an ice house for an afternoon.

That has 'Classic' written all over it. .."


~~~

Ice fishing? Seems to me I saw a film with Jack Lemon? and Walter Mathau, one of the grumpy old men series, about ice fishing.

I don't think so.

amicus...

 

[Huckleman2000]

"...Have you ever been ice fishing? You, Ogg, SeaCat, and me in an ice house for an afternoon.

That has 'Classic' written all over it. .."


~~~

Ice fishing? Seems to me I saw a film with Jack Lemon? and Walter Mathau, one of the grumpy old men series, about ice fishing.

I don't think so.

amicus...

Exactly. That's why it would be a classic.

 

[amicus]

Huckleman2000]Exactly. That's why it would be a classic.

[/I]

~~~

I see why you say so...by the way, I recognize the scene in your avatar from "Christmas Story" with Darin McGavin, if no one has mentioned it.

amicus...

 

[S-Des]

~~~~

Hmmm....not sure I comprehend the tone of your comments...I like the happy Hollywood ending as you put it and I thought the 'voiceover' Mickey Spillane style was perfectly done. And I never watched "The Shining" so I have no idea. I suppose one would have to read the book to see if Deckard, Harrison Ford, was really a Replicant, as Sean Young questioned that in the film.

However, I like it that he is mortal...adds a poignant flavor to the romance aspect.

amicus...

I've never seen either version, but have always heard that the director's cut is the much better one. Probably depends on if you've seen the other first.

I agree that we've stagnated in our quest to move to the next step in space exploration. We tend to work better when under duress, and there hasn't been any urgent need to do so. I think it's sad that we can't explore just for the sake of expanding our knowledge (not to mention all the accidental discoveries that benefit us when we make those kinds of leaps), but history shows it's nothing new. It would be nice if we could break that trend for once.

 

[starrkers]

I've seen both, several times. Love the film.
The Director's cut is definitely superior in my view, but then, I like weird films.

 

[amicus]

S-Des]I've never seen either version, but have always heard that the director's cut is the much better one. Probably depends on if you've seen the other first.

I agree that we've stagnated in our quest to move to the next step in space exploration. We tend to work better when under duress, and there hasn't been any urgent need to do so. I think it's sad that we can't explore just for the sake of expanding our knowledge (not to mention all the accidental discoveries that benefit us when we make those kinds of leaps), but history shows it's nothing new. It would be nice if we could break that trend for once.

[/I]

~~~


Hope you get the chance to see either...


Being the curmudgeon that I be...I purport that NASA and government stifling of private enterprise in space, on the moon in particular, have slowed and stagnated our efforts in space. While I agree, under duress, especially wartime, as in Radar and Atomic research in WW2, were prompted by government, it is the private entrepeneur, with a profit motive in mind, that really makes things happen.

And I think the 'trend' as you describe it, cannot be broken, even Marco Polo and Columbus, and Magellan, had economic interests in mind and behind them as they set forth into the unknown....I could be wrong...but I doubt it.


amicus...

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=starrkers]I've seen both, several times. Love the film.
The Director's cut is definitely superior in my view, but then, I like weird films.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Happy New Years, starrkers...I think I have also seen both, but being the mushy romantic type, I prefer the happy ending....sue me...grins....

amicus...

 

[amicus]

I didn't really want to start a new thread for this, but following the comments, I thought of another post apocalyptic film that I still enjoy called, "Logan's Run"

It starred Michael York and a lovely, Jenny Agutter and here is a brief synopsis:

"...."Sometime in the 23rd century...the survivors of war,
overpopulation and pollution are living in a great domed
city, sealed away from the forgotten world outside.

Here in an ecologically balanced world, mankind lives only
for pleasure, freed by the servo-mechanisms which provide
everything. There's just one catch. Life must end at thirty
unless reborn in the fiery ritual of carousel. "

- introduction to Logan's Run (the movie)


Logan's Run is a brilliant expression of our new mythology.
It tells the story of a future humanity trapped by a computer
in a prison, disguised to look like a paradise of sensual delights.

But a man and woman escape back out into the world
where they learn the truths that have been kept
from the human race...

Is it the story of what we are becoming?..."

~~~~

I think I have never spoken with anyone who has seen the film...anyone here?


amicus...

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I didn't really want to start a new thread for this, but following the comments, I thought of another post apocalyptic film that I still enjoy called, "Logan's Run"

It starred Michael York and a lovely, Jenny Agutter and here is a brief synopsis:

"...."Sometime in the 23rd century...the survivors of war,
overpopulation and pollution are living in a great domed
city, sealed away from the forgotten world outside.

Here in an ecologically balanced world, mankind lives only
for pleasure, freed by the servo-mechanisms which provide
everything. There's just one catch. Life must end at thirty
unless reborn in the fiery ritual of carousel. "

- introduction to Logan's Run (the movie)


Logan's Run is a brilliant expression of our new mythology.
It tells the story of a future humanity trapped by a computer
in a prison, disguised to look like a paradise of sensual delights.

But a man and woman escape back out into the world
where they learn the truths that have been kept
from the human race...

Is it the story of what we are becoming?..."

~~~~

I think I have never spoken with anyone who has seen the film...anyone here?


amicus...

I've seen it. Very interesting and disturbing. Though it's been a few years, so I can't go into details about it.

_____

And on a side note about Blade Runner, it was supposed to take place a few years ago, wasn't it?

It's a disturbing prediction of the future as well. The Director's Cut is definitely the correct version to watch, as it was what they were trying to make in the first place.

And if you ask me, it was one of the original movies to set the tone for that near-apocalyptic future-esque landscape, with all of the flying cars and mechinizations and everything. Everyone else was copying that. It isn't cliche because it helped start the trend, as opposed to following it.

 

[Liar]

And on a side note about Blade Runner, it was supposed to take place a few years ago, wasn't it?

Nope. 2019.

Escape From New York was due in -97, though. I was highly dissapointed when that didn't happen.

 

[oggbashan]

I'm a useless fisherman, except by non-conventional means. I once caught six trout in an hour by tickling them with my fingers. I used to catch octopus and squid with my bare hands while snorkelling as a kid. They made a useful addition to my pocket money.

Apart from that I spent a week on a creek off the Norfolk Broads trying to catch fish. I caught one undersized eel and threw it back. The week wasn't wholly wasted. The creek was across the car park from the local pub so food, drink and fishermen's lying conversation were available. My incompetence kept the fishermen amused.

As for ice-fishing? I have built an igloo and slept in it for a few days. The beer didn't need a cooler. I added another tunnel entrance partly open to the outside as a beer store.

As for conversation? I think Amicus and I would have to agree to disagree. We are products of completely different social systems. Concepts each of us take as givens are alien to the other.

Og

 

[Guest]

I didn't really want to start a new thread for this, but following the comments, I thought of another post apocalyptic film that I still enjoy called, "Logan's Run"

It starred Michael York and a lovely, Jenny Agutter and here is a brief synopsis:

"...."Sometime in the 23rd century...the survivors of war,
overpopulation and pollution are living in a great domed
city, sealed away from the forgotten world outside.

Here in an ecologically balanced world, mankind lives only
for pleasure, freed by the servo-mechanisms which provide
everything. There's just one catch. Life must end at thirty
unless reborn in the fiery ritual of carousel. "

- introduction to Logan's Run (the movie)


Logan's Run is a brilliant expression of our new mythology.
It tells the story of a future humanity trapped by a computer
in a prison, disguised to look like a paradise of sensual delights.

But a man and woman escape back out into the world
where they learn the truths that have been kept
from the human race...

Is it the story of what we are becoming?..."

~~~~

I think I have never spoken with anyone who has seen the film...anyone here?


amicus...

Seen it. Good movie.

It deals with governmental corruption, using lies to subjugate the masses.

I like the old man with all the cats that Logan meets after he escapes (and before he goes back to destroy the bad guys).

The old guy quotes T. S. Eliott - Possum's Book of Practical Cats - the musical CATS was based on that. I thought that part was pretty nifty.

And of course, who could forget Farrah Fawcett's role as Holly, the little lazer plastic surgery babe who dies in spectacular fashion?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Nope. 2019.

Escape From New York was due in -97, though. I was highly dissapointed when that didn't happen.

Whoops. Still funny in both cases. We aren't going to advance that much over the next 13 years. And much to my dismay, New York City still isn't sectioned off from the rest of the world as a ginat prison. That would be sweet...

 

[3113]

It's interesting to read "Androids" and then see "Bladerunner" as some things become clear in the movie that are not clear the first time around. In the book--where Dekker is far less of a hard-boiled detective and far more everyman (typical P.K. Dick, his heroes are always fairly average)--we learn that living things are very rare. So people have android pets. A living pet is so expensive that it's a status symbol. As most folk can't afford such status symbols, they achieve status by having very realistic android pets (like, yes, a sheep). The harder it is for a neighbor to know the animal is fake, the more status a person gains.

P.K. Dick was very interested in the way Americans vied for status by keeping-up-with-the-joneses.

What this leads to is a running theme in the book--living creatures are so highly valued that people cannot conceive of killing them. It's a monsterous act.

*WHICH* is how Dekker's test tells Replicant from Human. Humans, the theory is, have so much empathy for other living things that they are horrified by the idea of killing what is living.

Watch the movie again and see what questions he asks and what answers he gets. He asks (as I recall, it's been a while and I could be wrong), for example, a question about a husband looking a pictures of a woman on a "Bear-skin rug"--the answer he gets is about the woman. But the answer he *SHOULD* have gotten was horror that someone has a bear-skin rug. Ditto when he asks about a spider and the answer to what the person would do if they saw the spider is "kill it." Human beings in Dekker's world, cannot be so callous. They couldn't kill the spider.

Of course, P.K.'s one overwhelming theme for all his stories is the question of who-who and how do you know? How do you know if you're alive or dead? How do you know if you're you or someone else? How do you know if you're sane or mad? How do you know if you're living or robotic?

And if artifical life can become that indistinguishable from real life, then how can you have less empathy for it than you do for a living creature? How can you kill it? How can you even be sure that what you feel is real and not programed into you just as it is programed into the androids?

I love P.K. Dick. He was a paranoid schitzophrenic, and he took way too many drugs, but he what a brilliant writer. If you're at all interested in the man behind the stories--and his truely strange life--I *highly* recommend this wonderfully written biography: I Am Alive and You are Dead

 

[gauchecritic]

Deckard was just so not a 'skinjob', whether Scott wanted him to be or not. The unicorn dream (director's cut) and the matchstick unicorn carved by Gaff (?) relate more to classical symbols of the beast (uncatchable, limited to virgin 'friendship' and neutralising poison) how much more virgin could a person be than Racheal (she can have no original sin, she's not human) Deckard had to be coerced back into the job and that job was neutralising infection)

The mysterious ending (either way) was whether Rachael would be allowed to live on the planet and for how long.

There are very few parallels between PKD's book and the film as to make them seperate entities (or at least the thrust of each)

The overcrowded scenes of losangeles seemed to me to be taken wholesale from numerous travelgues of Hong Kong.

Having said that I do like the film ever so. Nearly as good as Terry Gilliam's '12 Monkeys' which went largely unseen, but features Bruce Willis in a great role.

As for sci-fi predictions MiAmico, I think science went inward from the turn of the century after everything 'outward' had been discovered and concentrated very much on manipulation of the environment from aeroplanes to computer chips and telecoms to dna. There's just not enough will to 'live where we shouldn't'.

 

[CharleyH]

More Musings for writers and thinkers…


Dual, coalescing thoughts inspired by Blade Runner, a film with Harrison Ford, Sean Young, Rutger Hauer and Daryl Hannah…some lines spoken by Rutger Hauer, a ‘Replicant’; artificial intelligent life form with an expiration date, who was about to die…

The screen play was adapted from a book I think, by Philip K. Dick for you sci fi fans, “Do Android’s Dream of Electric Sheep?”

As the Android is about to expire he relates the sadness of his existence and all that he has seen in the far corners of the Galaxy by the following words:

“All those moments
will be lost in time
like tears in the rain…”


And upon his death, Harrison Ford questions why the Android saved his life while his own life was waning with the following words:

“He wanted to know the same things we all do,
Where did I come from
Where am I going
And how long have I got…?”


It is quite a good film if you have not seen it and includes some of my all time favorite actors, Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, and of course an ongoing celebrity crush on Daryl Hannah and Sean Young; permit me my fantasies.

The musical score is interesting also and the waning chords in the closing scenes reminded me of Brazilian Samba’s, actually Portuguese music which I have found to be romantically sensual and always with a transitory sense of sadness in the melody.

The surrealistic scenery in Blade Runner is typical of a whole genre of apocalyptic visions of an over crowded, polluted, mechanized future, but what else can you expect from Hollywood and the writers they promote, still, all in all, one of my all time favorite films.

As before, not much meat here to sink your teeth in to as an argument or disagreement. We are, if ever, centuries away from manufacturing artificial life forms such as the androids in this film and I suppose the underlying questions were involved with whether or not AI’s have the same rights as humans and should they be developed at all. I have long been a fan of Science Fiction and read the Asimov, (I think) novel, “I Robot”, way back in the 1950’s.

As an aside, I have personally been disappointed in the rate of progress of science insofar as it involves traveling to the Moon and Mars and colonies in space. I now begin to realize that the gap between science and science fiction, is much wider than I comprehended, oh, so long ago.

Just musings…


Amicus…

One of my all time favourite films, I must say. However, I have not seen it in a very long time. I recall that moment with Rutger Hauer and it makes me cry every single damn time, Ami. Thanks for reminding me - lol!

However, I must disagree on one point, or perhaps add to yours. The film is a perfect post-modern film noir and not so much a sci-fi. Noir is not a genre like sci-fi is, but elements of the film do make it a noir classic more than a science fiction.

I love the irony in the end of the film when Ford's character does decide to 'runaway' with a replicant after killing so many. Indeed he made the choice, as a character, that there is much to love in an object (one might symbolically equate that to fetishism, which means there is a lot of meat. ) ).

As for science fiction and reality? I think I loved (who was it?) Asminov's story made into the movie 'Contact' with Jody Foster? Great tale. I truly think the human mind is too small to even begin to understand or want to understand the greater quantum universe and hence the quote: One small step for man rings more true than the rather false finish of "and a giant one for mankind," 40 years later.

The history of technology completely fascinates me and in thinking of your statement I do wonder if it's the gap between science and sci-fi that's all that disappointing because it is, afterall, a normal gap between human thought and action, or if the disappoinment lies in the fact that there is a wider gap between what our brains are capable of (the sorry 10%) and what our brains are not (the interesting 90%) and yet maybe once were?

Bom Ano Novo ( a new phrase I picked up. )

 

[mismused]

delete