Money Issues Between PYLs and pyls

[Killishandra]

Alright, I didn't see anything money-related in the BDSM Library or find anything using the search option, so I'm starting this thread due to an issue that's bugging me in my new relationship.

I've recently begun dating a young Dom here in Hawaii, and we get along great. The only thing we ever really argue about (so far!) is money. He absolutely insists upon paying for everything... movies, dinner, billiards, ice cream... Sometimes all in one night. I think it is a mixture of old-fashioned gentlemanly behavior and a delight in seeing me argue (a futile process) with him over the issue. But mostly, I think it is because he wants to be a gentleman and to make me feel at ease. Unfortunately, it has a mixed effect on me.

I like to pay MY OWN WAY on dates and in relationships. Taking turns, or even being the one to pay more often. This is the way things have been done in every relationship I've ever had, and I'm comfortable that way. In some ways, to me letting someone else pay means I owe them something or they hold some sort of power over me. Perhaps it's a sense of control that I'm hesitant to give up, even though I seek to give up so many other forms of control. Then again, perhaps it's just guilty feelings associated with having someone else pay my way. As a child, I was always made very aware by my mother that I was an emotional and financial burden. I learned I'd much rather pay my own way in things then let someone lordy it over me for financial reasons. (My mother was the queen of guilt-trips.)

So, on the one hand, I've never had a guy insist on paying all the time like this. The sub inside of me is pleased to pieces, especially when he explains it in terms of his taking care of me. Also, just to clarify, he did tell me (after I brought it up for the uptenth time) that things will probably change in the future and I will be allowed to pay for things as well. However, in the mean time, for whatever his reasons are, I am not allowed. And let me tell you... the man is tricky. Pushing me out of the way, prepaying for things, etc.

Right now he is considering me as a sub, and I am considering him as a Dom. (a.k.a., we are in kind of a "trial" or "consideration" period.) I don't want to annoy him by continuing to pester him over this issue, but his insistance upon not letting me spend a cent has me more nervous than if he'd split things down the line. Also, though, a part of me is secretly delighted... It's not that I like being a mooch (quite the opposite) but it does give me a nice feeling of being cared for when he glares at me in the movie theater line and tells me to put my wallet back in my purse. I can't help it. I just wish the guilty and "this is so un-PC" feelings wouldn't come with the good ones.

I know all relationships are different, but I would like to hear from other people (PYL or pyl, either one) who have been in similar situations, and also how they manage this sort of thing in their day-to-day long-term relationships. Is my situation kind of the norm, or do most PYL/pyl relationships these days start off "dutch" like most vanilla relationships? Does power exchange in a D/s relationship impact the money balance for you? Money = time = power and back and forth and all that... I know that, personally, I would like to reach a point with a Dom where I could give them my paycheck and just let them take care of all money matters. I'd still want to make money, and perhaps have input into investing it, but I'd like to know they have ultimate control. It pushes all the right buttons in me. But to have someone else pay, when they are not receiving a paycheck from me... It doesn't make me feel good. Kinda icky, and like I am a mooch.

He says I'm not a mooch because I fight against it all the time, but... I still feel like a mooch, damnit.

Comments? Similar stories? Ways of dealing and/or communicating so we don't drive each other batty on this issue? (Or is it only me driving both of us batty, y'think?)

Basically... "Help!"

-Killi


*It's 4:30AM for me, so I'm going to sleep, but I will respond tomorrow to anyone who posts here*

 

[Netzach]

M and I split things or pitch in when the other is broke, like most young married couples with a pile of bills. I buy toys and gear when they are bought, that's one thing I feel strongly about, though I often pay special attention to what lights his eyes up in the store.

My slave, on the other hand, has always paid for things, sent gifts, cash, and footed the bills and is perfectly thrilled to feel like he is "working for" me. Which is fine, he makes a heap more cash than either M or I.

Personally, I feel like whoever is most able to part with it, should. I believe in being independent, but I don't believe in breaking my balls while hanging out with someone for whom the same amount of money is an afterthought.

 

[nightdancer2876]

In the vanilla world, this is how I handle it. If you invite him to the movie, you pay. If he invites you, you pay.

So lets say that ya'll are sitting on the couch and you see a trailer for a movie you want to see. You turn to him and say "Hey, let's go see that on Friday." You have invited him. You pay. If he says "Lets go out to lunch." He invited you. He pays.


If its truly that big of a deal to him...then I dont know, lol.

D

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

OK as a throw back to the old chivalry days, I do like paying for dates, as well as holding open doors, rising when a lady leaves the table and offering my seat when appropriate. An old girlfriend was very similar in wanting to pay or felt like she was indebted to me now and then. My response that ended her feelings of mooching was "You do me teh honor of gracing me with your presence. I intend to honor you by showing you what you mean to to me in no uncertain terms".

And while she never offered to pay for a date after that she did buy me the best of presents for birthday's christmas etc.

 

[Jay Davis]

I'm with nightdancer on this. At least until you are at the cohabitation stage in the relationship, I prefer to determine who pays for what on a host/guest basis, rather than a male/female or top/bottom basis. If I ask you to go somewhere or do something, I'm inviting you and expect to play the role of host to you, as guest. If you ask me, the reverse applies. That way, everyone has control over the drain on their own pocketbook, and no one to blame but themselves if they go broke spending money on their new love.

As for handing over a paycheck--in the world we live in, it's extremely foolish to hand over your financial well-being to anyone other than your lawfully-wedded spouse. Now, I'm an aggressive proponent of extending the rights and responsibilities of marriage beyond the traditional male/female model, but regardless of that, no one should entrust their finances to anyone else unless they have the legal rights of marriage protecting them. If you are handing over all your money to a Dominant to whom you are not married, you could easily find yourself broke and homeless the day that Dominant gets tired of you. You MUST take care of yourself first, no matter how much of a sub you are by nature.

Believe me, I fully understand and appreciate the appeal of putting yourself entirely in someone else's care. It's a tremendously seductive fantasy to me as well. But in real-world, legal terms, it's financial suicide to trust someone to that degree if they have no legal obligation to be responsible in their handling of your financial affairs.

I know I didn't really address your current question--what to do in a D/s relationship in its early stages--but I am not sure there's a simple answer to that. But if you have a sense that this Dom is using money to gain a hold over you that interferes with your sense of freedom to give or deny consent, then something needs to change. Anytime you're letting him do something to you, or doing something for him, that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't paid for that fancy dinner and the show, he's not topping you, he's blackmailing you. And that's not S, S, or C.

Talk to him about it from that point of view, and see how he responds.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Consider Salvor-Hardin's response, Killi.

Since he has told you that this "will probably change in the future and I will be allowed to pay for things as well," accept it - with good grace! - with a mental note that financial aspects of your relationship should be one of the issues in negotiations for that relationship, if it goes beyond a trial period.

Since this has emotional connotations for you, it could well be a deal-breaker, so consider carefully both your feelings on it and his.

That's my $0.02 worth - YMMV.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Alright, I didn't see anything money-related in the BDSM Library or find anything using the search option, so I'm starting this thread due to an issue that's bugging me in my new relationship.

I've recently begun dating a young Dom here in Hawaii, and we get along great. The only thing we ever really argue about (so far!) is money. He absolutely insists upon paying for everything... movies, dinner, billiards, ice cream... Sometimes all in one night. I think it is a mixture of old-fashioned gentlemanly behavior and a delight in seeing me argue (a futile process) with him over the issue. But mostly, I think it is because he wants to be a gentleman and to make me feel at ease. Unfortunately, it has a mixed effect on me.

I like to pay MY OWN WAY on dates and in relationships. Taking turns, or even being the one to pay more often. This is the way things have been done in every relationship I've ever had, and I'm comfortable that way. In some ways, to me letting someone else pay means I owe them something or they hold some sort of power over me. Perhaps it's a sense of control that I'm hesitant to give up, even though I seek to give up so many other forms of control. Then again, perhaps it's just guilty feelings associated with having someone else pay my way. As a child, I was always made very aware by my mother that I was an emotional and financial burden. I learned I'd much rather pay my own way in things then let someone lordy it over me for financial reasons. (My mother was the queen of guilt-trips.)

So, on the one hand, I've never had a guy insist on paying all the time like this. The sub inside of me is pleased to pieces, especially when he explains it in terms of his taking care of me. Also, just to clarify, he did tell me (after I brought it up for the uptenth time) that things will probably change in the future and I will be allowed to pay for things as well. However, in the mean time, for whatever his reasons are, I am not allowed. And let me tell you... the man is tricky. Pushing me out of the way, prepaying for things, etc.

Right now he is considering me as a sub, and I am considering him as a Dom. (a.k.a., we are in kind of a "trial" or "consideration" period.) I don't want to annoy him by continuing to pester him over this issue, but his insistance upon not letting me spend a cent has me more nervous than if he'd split things down the line. Also, though, a part of me is secretly delighted... It's not that I like being a mooch (quite the opposite) but it does give me a nice feeling of being cared for when he glares at me in the movie theater line and tells me to put my wallet back in my purse. I can't help it. I just wish the guilty and "this is so un-PC" feelings wouldn't come with the good ones.

I know all relationships are different, but I would like to hear from other people (PYL or pyl, either one) who have been in similar situations, and also how they manage this sort of thing in their day-to-day long-term relationships. Is my situation kind of the norm, or do most PYL/pyl relationships these days start off "dutch" like most vanilla relationships? Does power exchange in a D/s relationship impact the money balance for you? Money = time = power and back and forth and all that... I know that, personally, I would like to reach a point with a Dom where I could give them my paycheck and just let them take care of all money matters. I'd still want to make money, and perhaps have input into investing it, but I'd like to know they have ultimate control. It pushes all the right buttons in me. But to have someone else pay, when they are not receiving a paycheck from me... It doesn't make me feel good. Kinda icky, and like I am a mooch.

He says I'm not a mooch because I fight against it all the time, but... I still feel like a mooch, damnit.

Comments? Similar stories? Ways of dealing and/or communicating so we don't drive each other batty on this issue? (Or is it only me driving both of us batty, y'think?)

Basically... "Help!"

-Killi


*It's 4:30AM for me, so I'm going to sleep, but I will respond tomorrow to anyone who posts here*

let the part of you that is secretly delighted be in control for now. it may help to just allow it to be, because it makes him happy. *shrug*

 

[canadiancutie]

Alright, I didn't see anything money-related in the BDSM Library or find anything using the search option, so I'm starting this thread due to an issue that's bugging me in my new relationship.

I've recently begun dating a young Dom here in Hawaii, and we get along great. The only thing we ever really argue about (so far!) is money. He absolutely insists upon paying for everything... movies, dinner, billiards, ice cream... Sometimes all in one night. I think it is a mixture of old-fashioned gentlemanly behavior and a delight in seeing me argue (a futile process) with him over the issue. But mostly, I think it is because he wants to be a gentleman and to make me feel at ease. Unfortunately, it has a mixed effect on me.

I like to pay MY OWN WAY on dates and in relationships. Taking turns, or even being the one to pay more often. This is the way things have been done in every relationship I've ever had, and I'm comfortable that way. In some ways, to me letting someone else pay means I owe them something or they hold some sort of power over me. Perhaps it's a sense of control that I'm hesitant to give up, even though I seek to give up so many other forms of control. Then again, perhaps it's just guilty feelings associated with having someone else pay my way. As a child, I was always made very aware by my mother that I was an emotional and financial burden. I learned I'd much rather pay my own way in things then let someone lordy it over me for financial reasons. (My mother was the queen of guilt-trips.)

So, on the one hand, I've never had a guy insist on paying all the time like this. The sub inside of me is pleased to pieces, especially when he explains it in terms of his taking care of me. Also, just to clarify, he did tell me (after I brought it up for the uptenth time) that things will probably change in the future and I will be allowed to pay for things as well. However, in the mean time, for whatever his reasons are, I am not allowed. And let me tell you... the man is tricky. Pushing me out of the way, prepaying for things, etc.

Right now he is considering me as a sub, and I am considering him as a Dom. (a.k.a., we are in kind of a "trial" or "consideration" period.) I don't want to annoy him by continuing to pester him over this issue, but his insistance upon not letting me spend a cent has me more nervous than if he'd split things down the line. Also, though, a part of me is secretly delighted... It's not that I like being a mooch (quite the opposite) but it does give me a nice feeling of being cared for when he glares at me in the movie theater line and tells me to put my wallet back in my purse. I can't help it. I just wish the guilty and "this is so un-PC" feelings wouldn't come with the good ones.

I know all relationships are different, but I would like to hear from other people (PYL or pyl, either one) who have been in similar situations, and also how they manage this sort of thing in their day-to-day long-term relationships. Is my situation kind of the norm, or do most PYL/pyl relationships these days start off "dutch" like most vanilla relationships? Does power exchange in a D/s relationship impact the money balance for you? Money = time = power and back and forth and all that... I know that, personally, I would like to reach a point with a Dom where I could give them my paycheck and just let them take care of all money matters. I'd still want to make money, and perhaps have input into investing it, but I'd like to know they have ultimate control. It pushes all the right buttons in me. But to have someone else pay, when they are not receiving a paycheck from me... It doesn't make me feel good. Kinda icky, and like I am a mooch.

He says I'm not a mooch because I fight against it all the time, but... I still feel like a mooch, damnit.

Comments? Similar stories? Ways of dealing and/or communicating so we don't drive each other batty on this issue? (Or is it only me driving both of us batty, y'think?)

Basically... "Help!"

-Killi


*It's 4:30AM for me, so I'm going to sleep, but I will respond tomorrow to anyone who posts here*

Dude is it Mr. Hottiepants? If he wants to pay, let him!! If he wants to wear a paper hat, let him! Frick that guy is doable.

 

[Marquis]

let the part of you that is secretly delighted be in control for now. it may help to just allow it to be, because it makes him happy. *shrug*

I have to agree with KC here, I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Marquis]

Believe me, I fully understand and appreciate the appeal of putting yourself entirely in someone else's care. It's a tremendously seductive fantasy to me as well. But in real-world, legal terms, it's financial suicide to trust someone to that degree if they have no legal obligation to be responsible in their handling of your financial affairs.

That is excellent advice as well.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I like to pay MY OWN WAY on dates and in relationships. Taking turns, or even being the one to pay more often. This is the way things have been done in every relationship I've ever had, and I'm comfortable that way. In some ways, to me letting someone else pay means I owe them something or they hold some sort of power over me. Perhaps it's a sense of control that I'm hesitant to give up, even though I seek to give up so many other forms of control. Then again, perhaps it's just guilty feelings associated with having someone else pay my way. As a child, I was always made very aware by my mother that I was an emotional and financial burden. I learned I'd much rather pay my own way in things then let someone lordy it over me for financial reasons. (My mother was the queen of guilt-trips.)

Everyone so far has given you great advice to ponder, so instead of repeating it I will try and present another way of approaching the issue. You say this is not the way it has been in any of your previous relationships.....but those relationships are no longer, most were not D/s, so perhaps it is valid to consider a change if only for change sake...you know, stepping outside the comfort zone and challenging that which you are used to and fits like a comfy old slipper.

Also, in saying you usually pay at least half, sometimes more, I take it you do not do that in order to make the other person feel obligated to you, or use it to control them...so turn it around and look at why you feel for them to want to pay means they may be using it to gain power over you in a deceitful way. Obviously it does happen, and believe me I have fought my own battles with this risk, but I also came to realise in part it can be unfair to assume while you would be doing the honourable or fair thing, another would not, unless you have something definite to go on. I can also relate to how it can seem it is an issue of giving up control, especially when you are independent and not used to relying on anyone to support you....LOL, after many, many years as a single mother, it has been one of the greatest hurdles I have had to overcome and make peace with...I'm still working on it.

I also can relate to what you say about your mother and the possible influence that has over your need to pay. I have come from a similar situation, and still hear the speech from my mother regularly, 'I don't ever regret having you, but it has affected so many people's lives I often think it would have been better if you hadn't been born'....so yeah, there is always that urge to not be a burden emotionally or financially on anyone by going overboard. That then punishes others for what your parent did which is not fair to them and is not their burden to bear....but it is not easy to overcome either and the fears/thoughts nag in the subconscious continuously. Think carefully, weigh up the positives and negatives, try and let reality prevail, and then communicate more and see how you both can work through this situation to make it a forward growth step instead of backward. Good luck.

Catalina

 

[jasonlf]

If he has the money, let him pay. If you wanna do something nice in return, buy him a small gift to give when you go out, but most guys don't attach strings to it all.

 

[graceanne]

Have you tried thinking of it from his POV? If he was raised to feel that he should pay the way this early in the relationship, I'm gonna guarantee that he'd be VERY uncomfortable with you paying the way. My husband is like that, he's southern and he was raised to believe that a gentleman paid for the dates, especially early in the relationship. If I'd insisted on paying it would have made him feel very uncomfortable.

Beyond that - why are you worried about what's PC? Not to point out the obvious, but your whole relationship is sooooooo NOT PC. I mean, you're in a M/f D/s relationship - that's about as un-pc as it gets. The same feminists that say you should pay your half would string you up if they ever found out that your relationship is D/s.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I like to pay for everything on dates and shit. It makes me feel benificent and patriachal. Definitely a control thing.

 

[FurryFury]

When I going out with a guy or gal and they have this attitude I let them pay. I make it pretty damned clear that though it is a nice thing, they are not to expect me to feel obligated and I don't. You can't buy me. Many people have tried. Money is not love. I've had lots of people try to control me with money and fail.

I can pay my own way. I don't need them to. If they need to pay, fine. I find a lot of people can't really give emotion and caring so they try to compensate with money and things. It's sad but it makes them minimally happy. *shrugs*

Others are simply trying to be gentlemen. I respect and appreciate that in a man. Currently, in this marriage we have separate accounts and responsibilities. We are constantly offering to help the other one out. Neither of us need help though. On dates he likes to pay. I handle a lot of other material concerns. It balances out in the end.

I don't know much about your relationship with, as I believe CC said, "Mr. Hottiepants." So all I can say is you are a very smart and lovely girl. I'm sure you'll find the right path for you in this case.

*hugs*

Fury

 

[Marquis]

I like to pay for everything on dates and shit. It makes me feel benificent and patriachal. Definitely a control thing.

That's funny, we're the exact opposite.

Although I would want control of financial decisions relative to the depth of the relationship, in my ideal situation I wouldn't even carry a wallet when I'm going out with my sub(s).


"Hey baby, why don't you get a round of drinks for me and.... I'm sorry mami what was your name? Yeah sweetie, a round of drinks for me and our friend Cherise here."

*ass slap*

 

[kerker_miester]

old world

I have always liked paying for the dates, movies ect. in the early part of a relationship it was how I was raised. I even like to support my sub as much as she will let me. It's just me. If you like the feeling of him paying enjoy it. Do not feel like a mooch if he has clearly indicated he likes it this way, and do not feel indebit to him as you are doing as he asked.

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Hey baby, why don't you get a round of drinks for me and.... I'm sorry mami what was your name? Yeah sweetie, a round of drinks for me and our friend Cherise here."

*ass slap*

I'm all about that, except that I like handing her a big wad of money as I say it. I'm the kind of person who will spend all my money on you and then say, oh fuck, I'm broke now. Got any money?

 

[Marquis]

I'm all about that, except that I like handing her a big wad of money as I say it. I'm the kind of person who will spend all my money on you and then say, oh fuck, I'm broke now. Got any money?

HA HA!!!

Once again, exact opposite. I like them to spend on me until they're broke, then they have to come to Daddy for handouts and a lecture on financial responsibility.

 

[rosco rathbone]

HA HA!!!

Once again, exact opposite. I like them to spend on me until they're broke, then they have to come to Daddy for handouts and a lecture on financial responsibility.

Are you saying I'm the girl and you're the boy??? *looks at you askance*

 

[Marquis]

Are you saying I'm the girl and you're the boy??? *looks at you askance*

No, you did.

 

[rosco rathbone]

No, you did.

hahaha

 

[rosco rathbone]

But to answer the original question; which was a good one: I don't expect anything in return for paying for shit, on dates and such. I just like the feeling of sugar daddiness that it gives me to pay. The man pays, the head of household pays. That's how I feel in my soul.

 

[Marquis]

I don't expect anything in return for paying for shit, on dates and such.

We are like Yin and Yang, you and I.

 

[Kajira Callista]

feeds them steak and pie to end the hijack.