Moderator Preclearance for 'Genesis of Orcs'

[goblin_minstrel]

Hi lovely Literotica community. I was directed here by the content guidelines.

For the last eighteen months I've been writing a fantasy-world themed erotic horror story. I'm ready to post my first chapter but unsure if it violates the content guidelines. In particular...

> Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

The protagonist certainly doesn't enjoy the first chapter. She also gets maimed in my story. The latter's not a central feature nor meant to glorify the act.

I'm unsure if it crosses the line this policy's aiming for. Regardless, I'd prefer to avoid the rudeness and headache if posting's a no-go.

I'd really like to get writing advice from the Literotica community (and hopefully recruit some volunteer editors for my next chapter). I've never shown my writing to anyone and I'm really keen to hear the feedback.

That said, if my story's too toxic for this site I certainly don't want to make folks feel uncomfortable.

This form doesn't permit textual attachments so here's my first chapter...

[Link removed. Please do not link to full stories/chapters that haven't been approved by Lit. If you need to vet a story, pass it through private messages. -AH Mod]

TL;DR. For this site's content moderators:

1. Is this story permissible?
2. If so, should I keep the warning header?
3. If not, do folks know of another writing community to suggest?

Thanks! -Goblin Minstrel

 

[Djmac1031]

You say your character is "maimed."

Depending on HOW and WHAT, it may or may not be acceptable.

If your story features straight up rape, or worse, raped then murdered?

It's not gonna fly here.

I'm fully for an author's freedom to write any story they wish.

I also fully support LE's ability to establish rules for their site and enforce them.

I'd say look elsewhere.

 

[djrip]

Submit and it will go through or it won't. Laurel is the decider. If it does get rejected, I hear folks have had good luck talking to her about their story and getting the rejection reversed in some cases. I agree snuff will not be allowed, but non-sexual maiming might, and there is a whole category of non-consent here.

 

[Euphony]

Doubtful a new author will be published on faith that the non-con'ed will come around to enjoy it.

The common issue is saying there's no glorification yet it's a huge narrative fulcrum so dwelled on significantly.

At some point, sheer narrative volume can be viewed (narrowly, yes but erring on the side of caution) as glorification in sheep's clothing.

Submit. Adjust for any rejections/thorny spots for publication here or, if it's too narratively disruptive, post elsewhere.

 

[Zenith77]

Hi lovely Literotica community. I was directed here by the content guidelines.

For the last eighteen months I've been writing a fantasy-world themed erotic horror story. I'm ready to post my first chapter but unsure if it violates the content guidelines. In particular...

> Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

The protagonist certainly doesn't enjoy the first chapter. She also gets maimed in my story. The latter's not a central feature nor meant to glorify the act.

I'm unsure if it crosses the line this policy's aiming for. Regardless, I'd prefer to avoid the rudeness and headache if posting's a no-go.

I'd really like to get writing advice from the Literotica community (and hopefully recruit some volunteer editors for my next chapter). I've never shown my writing to anyone and I'm really keen to hear the feedback.

That said, if my story's too toxic for this site I certainly don't want to make folks feel uncomfortable.

This form doesn't permit textual attachments so here's my first chapter...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CZv91tL4gfDfxOJAaTJppbj96vdf2hFG/view

TL;DR. For this site's content moderators:

1. Is this story permissible?
2. If so, should I keep the warning header?
3. If not, do folks know of another writing community to suggest?

Thanks! -Goblin Minstrel

Well, having read the first page or so, I'd say you don't stand a lot of chance of getting this through.

1) it's rape, not CNC or even 'reluctance'
2) the maiming is integral to the sex, specifically designed to prevent the quarry from escaping.

I think both of those things would block this.

 

[onehitwanda]

That's a hard yikes.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think Zenith is probably right. Violence and some mayhem are OK, but violence and mayhem combined with sex, especially non-consensual sex, generally are not. I scanned a part of your first chapter and my impression is it wouldn't pass the site's rules.

 

[Jmanchu]

Mixing the act with maiming after is going to be a problem. Especially considering the rape part where she aint enjoying it in the first chapter. The first chapter won't fly in literotica, very likely.

 

[Zenith77]

As an aside, albeit a related aside (as supposed to a Cornflake-related one, @Emilymcplugger), when is non-consent not rape? If rape isn't allowed, but there's a whole non-consent category, exactly where is the line drawn?

Given that I write a lot of non-consent, you'd have figured I knew the answer to this... but I don't.

 

[SimonDoom]

As an aside, albeit a related aside (as supposed to a Cornflake-related one, @Emilymcplugger), when is non-consent not rape? If rape isn't allowed, but there's a whole non-consent category, exactly where is the line drawn?

Given that I write a lot of non-consent, you'd have figured I knew the answer to this... but I don't.

In the real world, it's rape. In the Literotica world, the question is whether the victim enjoys it or not. Debating whether it's "rape" is irrelevant to the Literotica conversation.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think anyone who wants to write a non-role playing rape in their porn ought to research it thoroughly first. What better way than being raped yourself? Makes sense right?

Em

 

[Zenith77]

In the real world, it's rape. In the Literotica world, the question is whether the victim enjoys it or not. Debating whether it's "rape" is irrelevant to the Literotica conversation.

Is that the definition of 'acceptable', then? The victim 'enjoys' it? And that, presumably, includes being forced to orgasm, against their will?

Pretty dodgy grounds.

 

[Zenith77]

I think anyone who wants to write a non-role playing rape in their porn ought to research it thoroughly first. What better way than being raped yourself? Makes sense right?

Em

For those that have experienced the reality, or know someone who has experienced that reality, it's probably not such a popular category.

But it is a common-enough fantasy. And it is, at the end of the day, a fantasy.

 

[EmilyMiller]

For those that have experienced the reality, or know someone who has experienced that reality, it's probably not such a popular category.

Understatement of the fucking century.

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Is that the definition of 'acceptable', then? The victim 'enjoys' it? And that, presumably, includes being forced to orgasm, against their will?

Pretty dodgy grounds.

Here's the rule about what is prohibited:

• Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

This rule seems to perplex or shock many people, but to me it seems simple and obvious enough. The site wants to provide a space for people to read and write non-consent fantasies, for the obvious reason that many people enjoy these fantasies. But it doesn't want to provide a forum for the glorification of or derivation of sexual gratification from extreme pain and suffering. So it draws the line at non-enjoyment. This obviously creates a space for stories that are likely to be highly unrealistic, or offensive to many people. But in that respect it's no different from many other things people fantasize about. There's no requirement that fantasies must be realistic, so there should be no requirement that stories about those fantasies must be realistic.

 

[Zenith77]

Understatement of the fucking century.

Em

We all have categories we don't like.

 

[SimonDoom]

We all have categories we don't like.

Not me, as far as Literotica categories are concerned. I like them all. There are themes and subcategories within some of the categories I don't care for, but if the story is well-written enough I can probably enjoy it regardless of the subject matter.

 

[Zenith77]

So it draws the line at non-enjoyment.

Thanks for sharing the rule.

Like I said, I write non-consent so obviously it's an area I enjoy, and I think it's very much about how you deliver that story. I've skirted pretty close to the line in one story in particular, but most of them I think have a healthy CNC aspect to it, free of abuse (which is something I feel quite strongly about, particularly mental abuse) and, as we've both said, fantasies are fantasies, they're wildly varied and no one is forced to read a category they don't want to read.

Though now I'm thinking about a non-consent story where someone is forced to read a category they don't want to read. Could be hot.... unless it's LW. Then it's abuse.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For those that have experienced the reality, or know someone who has experienced that reality, it's probably not such a popular category.

But it is a common-enough fantasy. And it is, at the end of the day, a fantasy.

I've known more than one rape survivor who was into CNC fantasy and/or roleplay. People are complicated, and for some I think it ends up being a way of processing RL experiences.

 

[Priscilla_June]

I think as long as the maiming isnt part of the sexual part of it, as it was explained to me its fine.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

I wrote a rape scene that didn't pass originally but then passed after modification. It was rejected not because of the rape but because the victim killed the rapist (her husband) during the act, qualifying it as snuff.

I modified the story so that the victim kills her husband in the scene following the rape. Because the death was made separate from the rape, the scene no longer qualified as 'snuff'.

My rape scene passed because it was clearly not meant to be enjoyed by the reader as an erotic moment. I guess.

Snuff, on the other hand, is a hard no.

My point, I suppose, is that rape may be allowed in story depending on how you treat it. If there's any indication that the writer intends to sexually arouse the reader with the rape, it will be rejected (as it should be).

 

[Bramblethorn]

Here's the rule about what is prohibited:

• Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

This rule seems to perplex or shock many people, but to me it seems simple and obvious enough. The site wants to provide a space for people to read and write non-consent fantasies, for the obvious reason that many people enjoy these fantasies. But it doesn't want to provide a forum for the glorification of or derivation of sexual gratification from extreme pain and suffering. So it draws the line at non-enjoyment. This obviously creates a space for stories that are likely to be highly unrealistic, or offensive to many people. But in that respect it's no different from many other things people fantasize about. There's no requirement that fantasies must be realistic, so there should be no requirement that stories about those fantasies must be realistic.

That particular line is straightforward if taken in isolation, but the context of how it's been applied isn't always so black-and-white.

I don't know if it's changed, but the boilerplate rejection text used to say "We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused." That "generally" allowed for exceptions and exceptions have been made. There are a lot of Erotic Horror stories which end up with somebody dead, and RubenR's "I'm Your Valentine" was a pretty thoughtful story about a woman pressured into sex by a guy who doesn't even realise she's not able to give meaningful consent.

So the site does or did make exceptions to the rule as quoted. In some cases I think that's a good thing, but it does complicate interpretation. (Maybe inevitable; rules that are simple enough to be unambiguous often lack necessary nuance.)

In any case, having checked a little of OP's story, I don't think it would pass either the letter or the spirit of the policy here.

 

[SimonDoom]

That particular line is straightforward if taken in isolation, but the context of how it's been applied isn't always so black-and-white.

I don't know if it's changed, but the boilerplate rejection text used to say "We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused." That "generally" allowed for exceptions and exceptions have been made. There are a lot of Erotic Horror stories which end up with somebody dead, and RubenR's "I'm Your Valentine" was a pretty thoughtful story about a woman pressured into sex by a guy who doesn't even realise she's not able to give meaningful consent.

So the site does or did make exceptions to the rule as quoted. In some cases I think that's a good thing, but it does complicate interpretation. (Maybe inevitable; rules that are simple enough to be unambiguous often lack necessary nuance.)

In any case, having checked a little of OP's story, I don't think it would pass either the letter or the spirit of the policy here.

I agree about the rule in isolation, which I why I added my interpretation of it. RubenR's story would fit within my interpretation, since, while it features nonconsensual sex in which the victim does not enjoy it, it very obviously is not intended to glorify the encounter or make it sexy--it does quite the opposite. Unfortunately, the story is gone now so we can't refer to it.

 

[Jmanchu]

That said, if my story's too toxic for this site I certainly don't want to make folks feel uncomfortable.

This form doesn't permit textual attachments so here's my first chapter...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CZv91tL4gfDfxOJAaTJppbj96vdf2hFG/view

TL;DR. For this site's content moderators:

1. Is this story permissible?
2. If so, should I keep the warning header?
3. If not, do folks know of another writing community to suggest?

Thanks! -Goblin Minstrel

I'm going to make a wild assumption and say you're a fan of Goblin Slayer. Anyways, I noticed you had a link in your post, and I read just some of it. You're not going to get that passed through the filters at all. Not even close. The violence is too strong especially with the rape right after. I know you're trying to go for a hardcore, brutal and dark vibe full of R-Rated mature content(not counting the pornographic content) but the story with the goblins crippling her is definitely too much in the beginning.

_________________

I'll give you some constructive feedback I noticed about your overall writing style, so you get something out of this thread for your work and any future stories you write, here or elsewhere. You have a nice approach for the prose, especially for fantasy fiction. Dramatic and grim for sure with varied vocabulary. Grammar's alright for the most part but there is the occasional issue: Watch for minor typos like "specie's." Also, with the more formal style of narration which you've established there, you'd do better to not mix informal words and contractions, stuff like "alotta" instead of "a lot of."

Keep working your craft, you've got something there in terms of your writing style.

But there are some problems with the dialogue. Namely with the goblins. when you have characters speaking in accents, especially with accents or speech patterns revolving around characters and fantasy races that speak crudely or poorly, don't make every word deliberately misspelled to emphasize their speech impediment. It will come off as cartoony and exaggerated. And hard to read or understand. I feel like I have to translate it, sometimes reading the same phrases more than once, and that distracting. Distractions like that take the reader out of their head space for your story.

Stuff like "Tymbar! Naw yu'l krawl lyk a pygie," or "Nu run'n uf anymur. Wi'l teyk sich nys
keyr'a evaryd'n yu neid." is hard to read and feels like I'm reading an entirely different language. You can still get gobbos or any other race or being to have the effect of speaking crudely without going that far.

Here's a suggestion: instead of something like "Luk! Diz yumie elf'z hert," keep it simple. "Look! Diz yummy elf's hurt!" Only one word is changed, and people can still get the gobbo voice in their head when they read it. Even the sentence structure you use for the way they speak might be enough on its own to have the desired effect. "Bad gurl! Yu'z myn," You can go instead with "Bad girl! You's mean," and it works. See what I mean?

 

[Jmanchu]

Another thing. She's not really putting up a fight so busting her ankle and a finger from the start to make sure she doesn't escape while she's being compliant is a bit over the top for that situation. I know goblins are cruel and barbarically simpleminded in your setting but come on. That's just extra work.

They should already know she's hurt and vulnerable, that she understands her situation isn't a good one by her trying to beg and ask for no trouble. Threats, and bondage is really all that would be needed to maintain control of that situation and capture her. Save the more savage and scary stuff for later. Allow some anticipation and dread instead of just going straight to brutal fucking.

If you want to write good horror, try more tricks to mix up with the shock value and brutality. Especially with horror erotica.

Anticipation, for example, is a great when it comes to horror. Using it to create dread and uncertainty of what's to come. If horror erotica is what you're going for, you need to figure out how to play with that a lot more. Don't just go straight for the kill and keep em guessing.

If you're just going for a sexy "Goblin Slayer" erotic non-con situation, it would still be not a bad idea to tone the brutality down during and leading up to the sex. And I'd say get more into the sexual psychology of the characters. If it's just a girl gets captured and fucked brutally with no setup other than she's hurt by them, it's just rape, even if she ends up "liking it" later.

If I were writing this I'd ask myself for the sake of the female character what makes the "victim" in a roleplay rape enjoy it, before, during, and after? What makes them love to play the part? To play the fearful, or valiant victim to be humiliated, used, abused, etc? What makes it exciting for them(no one answer is right since everyone is different, but)? The thrilling fear? Acting like they hate it but secretly revel in the shame of loving being used in such a dirty way? etc.

A valiant, honorable elf that has mainly lived the life of a warrior and assumably in high class... now in a dirty, scary, and degrading situation? Just leaving it at "elves are mostly a-sexual for the most part" is kind of boring. What if you explored some things there? Does she have some shameful, secret want for something scary and dangerous? Degrading? Wild? Something that would shake up her usual life of honor and grace? Does she discover she enjoys being humiliated by getting a dirty loincloth tied around her mouth and fucked in a filthy way by crude little men and enjoys the degradation to her pride, much to her chagrin and surprise? Maybe she's secretly bored but ashamed of the fact that she has needs that are unusual for an elf of her stature and culture? There's so much potential there if erotica is your goal.