'Mixed Marriage' vanilla?/bdsm SO

[Phoenix Stone]

(Yes, it's been worked over, but not, I think, in any sort of organized way. Not that I've the organized mind to do it, only the interest in seeing it done.)

Quite a few of us have discovered or admitted our tendencies while in LTRs with folks who aren't bdsm or aren't there yet. The qualifier, as well as the question mark in the title, is because we may not know how the other person feels. They may just not have thought of it. And i suspect, that, as in my case, the 'vanilla' partner may have certain bdsm traits that unknowingly appealed to us in the first place. Not necessarily, but possible. Worth considering.

So what do you do when you find yourself in such a predicament? When I posted before, i jokingly started a thread called something like, 'turning vanilla into chocolate.' The point of the name being that you can't really turn something or someone into something they're not. On the other hand, we find areas of disagreement and commonality all the time in longterm relationships. Isn't this just another? And there are differences between wishing the Other was a dom and wishing the other was a sub. You can't just start beating someone with impunity. Begging for a beating, however, breaks no laws.

So, what's the point of the thread? Are there any out there who successfully went from vanilla, adding cocoa or chips, to turn the relationship more chocolatey? Even a little success, and not done yet -- like us, is welcome. Let's share. How does one, for instance, go deeper into ones submission, with someone who doesn't push and when it means acceptance of more vanilla, or even a diff flavor of chocolate than you'd hoped? Can you do one thing in your mind, when another is going on in your reality?

It has taken me a long time to get writing this so openly, as last time I didn't do it so well and got taken the wrong way. Also, maybe you are all tired of hearing about this? This is my big issue. Can't imagine one bigger for my sex life when I love someone and don't want to go the online route as others have done. And this would Not be ok with him.

So, how have you done it? We've tried a lot of things one time. I think it just seems like too much work to him to dom me in a way I'd like that would also be acceptable to him. And he Doesn't want me taking an active role. His fave could probably be named 'Taking Sleeping Beauty.' An easy role for me, but.... I don't know how to get to where I need to get to with it. I'm just aching for.... I don't know. Commands? Cruel teases? Sex is something I like to think about all day, and he likes to keep separate from the rest of life, it seems. Working on how to do it myself, i guess.

what's going on with you, and what do you do about it?? Help? Happy stories? Suggestions?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Uh oh, pimp strutting into the thread

I have previously discussed that I took a five year break from BDSM. If I look back at that period, there was some undercurrent of D/s in my vanilla relationships. Like maybe if you take a bottle of Nestle's Syrup and add it to milk? Or how they put pieces of bubble gum in ice cream? What is up with that? But I digress...

Nearly every vanilla woman I have dated has been fairly kinky compared to the normal population. Well, at least if we are to believe the results from large sex surveys. The numbers that say what percentage of women do/enjoy sex act A, B or C. Or maybe I am just a wild and crazy guy who attracts all the freaks?

So....looking at this five year period of time, let's pretend I was a Dom trapped in vanilla. I could sort of take the kinks they were comfortable with and ritualize a kinky act in my mind to partially satisfy my Dom urges. Most vanilla women will wear a blindfold or be handcuffed for short periods of time. It might not be as fun as doing a mummification experiment or trying elaborate rope bondage, but at least it is something....?

I have found vanilla women who for whatever reason were willing to pretend to be submissives to be in a relationship with me. They just thought "okay, he is very kinky" so they agree to go along with any requests. Lots of people are sexually ambivalent. But I know the difference between finding a D/s match and finding a woman who is willing to endure (not in enjoyable way) what happens in the bedroom.

Make no mistake about it -- I want the D/s match. But if trapped, there are worse fates than a kinky partner who is willing to do enough that you can sort of fantasize.

This is a crappy post but I am hitting Submit Reply anyway.

 

[shelleb4]

changing relationships

Sorry Phoenix,
i wrote a diabtribe in response then when i clicked submit, it told me i wasnt logged in ( i damn well was) ITS THE ONE THING I HATE ABOUT LITEROTICA!!!! aggggh
im too cross now.
taking deep breaths here's a summary
10yrs married to lovely man vanilla but great sex life.

I came to literotica to read porn, found bdsm! yummy

told husband about it, tried unsuccessfully to get him to read

told to back off and stop pressurising him or ill get nowt

backed off and got to enter bdsm as a sub to his dom

He got me a copy of Screw the thorns....he wont read it

all going lovely, but im a switch possibly.

Occasionally get to top occasionally which suffices

this probably wont get to you anyway as ive been typing for 2mins

fingers crossed x

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Wow, interesting. Would love to hear more. My guy turns out to have many dom tendencies, most of which I never quite noticed, just responded to without quite consciously getting it. (Gotta go in a minute so writing quickly.) I would LOVE to hear your diatribe. Whatever it is. Love diatribes. And even if it's about what an idiot I am or something as it sounds like we are on the same wavelength? Part of it is about how do you be a good submissive in this situation and part about how do you help, without pushing, him develop any latent tendencies. And part of it is understandign enough about bdsm to know where the various roads go, which tastes could develop in what directions. Not saying this right except -- Please post more! (when literotica lets you)

 

[Beloved]

Hmmmm...don't know that I'm even really qualified to post to this, or if my experiences thus far will be of any help, but I'll chip in my .02

My husband and I married pretty young and with little (him) or No (me) sexual experience to draw from. In spit of that Hubby and I just celebrated 11 years of marriage together last month and of those 11 years together I would say that the vast majority of them have been vanilla, perhaps a good French vanilla, or even a Vanilla Bean, but definatley VANILLA. For a good portion of our early marriage we're talking Man on top, obligatory 10 seconds of foreplay Vanilla.

A few years ago we began to add a few little mix ins every so often for variety. Some chocolate chips and sprinkles if you will. A liitle further down the road we even went so far as to make a full fledged sundae, - have I beat the ice cream analogy to death yet lol!- we had definatley progressed out of vanilla in terms of our sex lives but I could tell that for hubby there was still a threshold he was aching to cross and hadn't. Being curious as to what it might be, I began checking out his porn collection to see if I could gleen any info there and I was quite suprised by the amount of BDSM material I found. At first I was pretty pissed off. I had no intention of kneeling in front of anyone. I had no damn intention of being whipped or beaten or collared and made to crawl. If he thought there was going to be any way in hell he'd get to truss me up like some farm animal he had another thing or three coming. It'd be a cold day in hell before I called him or any other man SIR, MASTER, or anything of the sort.
We fought about it, and then finally talked about it. - Why the fights always come before the talks escapes me but...*shrug*- and I began to understand that his fantasies weren't about being the proverbial whipper but rather the whippee. That there was a need in him for the release that came with such surrender of control to one who was loved and trusted.
I balked! Balked so hard I'm suprised I don't have whiplash. How I wanted to know could he think me capable of such things! And furthermore how could he see it as an expression of love and trust to rule over someone in such a way. I spent alot of time analyzing the nature of our relationship and the more I thought, and the more I read, and discussed- especially with some of the wonderful people here- the more I realized that there has always been an element of domination and submission to our relationship. And not just sexually. In our lives in general it has always been in his nature to go to extremes or out of his way to please me. It seems to almost be in his nature. I realized to that it has always been in my nature to take control, and that despite what I think of myself I have been able to be quite cruel to get what I want from someone. That the control aspect of BDSM is something I've been doing for years without ever realizing it.
Bearing that in mind I've decided to see if I can go any further with it. If I really am capable of becoming that which hubby sees in me.
I do it in small doses, with little steps that I know I can handle. For example prior to this revelation if my husband was done going down on me and I wanted him to keep going I'd make some crack about it and hope he took the hint. Now I just hold his head down until I've had my orgasm and relishing the fact that he now knows he needs to do better because I won't let him up until he has fully satisfied me. Is it the full fledged stereotype of female dominance? Dear god no! But it's the slow unfurling of a flower that we both hope will one day blossom fully into something more fufilling and brillaint then we've yet seen. Hubby knows that if he nags or pushes that he gets nowhere, but if he lets me develop at my own pace the results can be deeply gratifying to him.

Hope that ramble helps.

 

[kinky shy girl]

I'm currently in a partly vanilla relationship. I'm not heavy into bdsm...just some roleplay, spankings, light pain. It took me more than a year before I even mentioned the kind of things that I liked. Once I mentioned that spankings turned me on. During sex, he would swat me a few times, very lightly. When I responded well, he probably thought, hmmm, so this is what she likes.

During subsequent encounters, I would encourage him to spank me harder...usually in the context of him being so turned on that it wouldn't matter. We slowly progressed to the point where he sometimes spanks me so hard that he leaves handprints. the first time that happened, he was completely horrified. I had to reassure that there is such a thing as good pain. eventually he began to enjoy it in his own way. he knows that certain things turn me on a lot...recently he pinched my nipples so hard that I actually cried out. I thought it was great and let him know that.

anyway in our situation, we've taken the baby step approach. He has also laid down some rules...he refuses to partake in certain activities and I respect that. I don't know how much more of bdsm we plan to integrate in our lives. But it's fun trying.

 

[rosco rathbone]

We slowly progressed to the point where he sometimes spanks me so hard that he leaves handprints.

gee willickers!

 

[Phoenix Stone]

gee willickers!

Hey, go pick on somebody your own size, smartypants!

(Bet you just had to say Something because of that AV, ya perv. )

 

[kinky shy girl]

Hey, go pick on somebody your own size, smartypants!

(Bet you just had to say Something because of that AV, ya perv. )

Yeah! humph!

 

[kinky shy girl]

gee willickers!

*shrug* I don't bruise easily...can't manage to keep a tan either.

 

[Pure]

kinky shy, "He has also laid down some rules...he refuses to partake in certain activities and I respect that. "

If you're training a sub, you should always respect their limits. You have the makings of a fine and gentle domme.

 

[kinky shy girl]

kinky shy, "He has also laid down some rules...he refuses to partake in certain activities and I respect that. "

If you're training a sub, you should always respect their limits. You have the makings of a fine and gentle domme.

*giggles* one of my male friends keeps telling me that I may have an inner Domme waiting to break free. (I don't know about that) He's a sub and from what he tells me, being a Domme involves a lot of work.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

a great resource (in addition to your library)

The good girl's guide to dominance (for beginners and would-be). Most immediately helpful guide I found for understanding the underpinnings of bdsm and my attraction to it, written at a level that is understandable and non-threatening to lightweights (like me.)

http://www.akashaweb.com/goodgirl.html

I just switched the genders in my mind as I read. Hey Pure -- what do you think of the idea of considering those of us who like to top from the bottom as, rather than being unruly, bratty or sammy subs -- and usually as folks who are wrongheaded -- as possibly a species of Dom/me. Dom/mes who absolutely insist on being treated as subs sexually, and will enforce same.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

While still leaving the hypothetical question in place for Pure, should he return, the answer for myself is that it considering myself such doesn't work for me (except for getting annoyed doms off my case) because it isn't the enforcing that gets me off so much. I Can enjoy that, but it comes from a very different place and feels quite different. More like a surface itch or tickle. Doesn't get me to a deep place, so such thinking will just take me away from my objective (though it makes a convenient label for those who are inclined to want people to fit neatly into categories and cut off the inconvenient bits that stick out.) Not referencing somebody in particular, just a general trend that seems to be in the air at times.

So back to the theme. What to do for those who strongly prefer to stay in their present relationships, yet strongly feel pulled, compelled, whatever, to get more into this. Now one paradox I've wondered about is: if you are truly a sub married to a vanilla guy, wouldn't you resign yourself? To pleasing him by remaining vanilla? Especially if you aren't especially a 'painslut' and you didn't have a particular unfulfilled fetish? If you had just sort of a generalized d/s urge, wouldn't you, as a proper sub, fulfill yourself by doing as the one you love bids, and accepting gentle, sensual non-forceful sex, especially if there is adequate foreplay and a fair amount of experimentation?

But what if you actually get immediately hot and wet from being shoved up against the wall and roughly taken with no foreplay whatsoever, and what if you can experiment for hours in varied positions and locations, but the only thing that gets you off is non-consent fantasies about someone being used matter-of-factly, gleefully, with arrogance and (can't think of the word but kind of like coldly or ruthlessly or well, you get the idea)?

What do you do if you suddenly discover that, given the right circumstances, you could spend all day thinking about sex feeling sensual as a teenager, yet oh so natural, feeling blushes and rushes of heat flash from your ankles, stream up through your crotch up to your neck, as though you are drowning in lust... and as suddenly had it all go away again, because it was taking you somewhere you didn't want to go.

Ahhhh.... back later to finish the story. Enough for now. I'd love to comment on some of what others have said and hear more about your stories and journeys.

 

[shelleb4]

mixed marriages

I think MrBlonde is correct when he states that you cant a vanilla who's adamant thats what they are. But many would kink to please to a greater or lesser degree. Certainly, i would be prepared to try things not on my list of requirements, but requests from partner, if thats what they like, and im not put off.
But for a partner to 'act' dom/me wouldnt cut it for me, coz id know that it was a act, and that is a proverbial cold water splash.

Beloved commented that fights come before the talk, this made me laugh. Yes Beloved, its uncanny isnt it? But fun too. But i usually have to suggest things, wait for ages, till a suitable time has elapsed and then my suggestion will be woven into his perspective and delivered his stylie. Tedious at times. But thats his issue i think, never has been much good at doing things he's told to by anyone. Even if its a book!

Unwilling to read: this is a problem for me. How does a Dom educate himself if he wont read. "why dont you just tell me what you want" is replied with "because then its my idea, i know whats coming and its no good then" any ideas how to escape this particular loop?

Head Fucks: How do you explain this? this is what i want. And females seem so much better at this than males. Ive yet to see anything written about this topic that makes sense to me.
But its like watching a psychological thriller, the more twists and turns, the better i enjoy it. Again, the problem of me suggesting how to give me a headfuck - well it wont work will it!

People who seem to be purists, and slur topping from the bottom, well they must be extreemly lucky to of found someone who fits them so well that they dont have to suggest anything.
Good luck to you. OR they are not in a LTR thats changing into chocolate. Or in a virtual relationship.

Now lets see if i can post this reply

 

[shy slave]

Not sure this makes sense but

For what its worth, I am not a purist but love trying to top from the bottom; even though it NEVER works

I was in a vanilla relationship for ten years, every time I touched on anything other than the missionary postition he would simply ignore me or walk away.

I admire anyone who has a partner open minded enough to even contemplate the possibilities of other things, however long it takes.

I don't really see giving suggestions and ideas in a LTR vanilla as 'topping from the bottom' as it a learning path for both of you.

In another thread Anelize said make your own rules and leave what you don't like behind (not an exact quote ..sorry Anelize).

If making suggestions and working over a long period of time towards what you want, is the better alternative than giving up and trying to find someone else..I admire you even more.
I never had the stamina for it.

I hope it works for you Phoenix no matter how frustrating it can be, and I hope he realises how lucky he is to have you.

Interesting viewpoint about if you were a sub should you submit to a vanilla relationship if thats what He wants?
If it were me I would have to make Him even more aware of how lucky He was, that I was submitting to a life of vanilla when He hadn't tried the other options...but thats just me *shrugs*

Great thread Phoenix

 

[Netzach]

"submitting to the vanilla life" to me has always been a lazy cop out. Submissive does not mean some vague protean lump free of all independent desires, that's completely idiotic.

 

[sunfox]

"submitting to the vanilla life" to me has always been a lazy cop out. Submissive does not mean some vague protean lump free of all independent desires, that's completely idiotic.

I, of course, agree with this, and further.. the fact that the relationship is largely vanilla doesn't mean that the other half has no responsibility to compromise to a degree. For myself, to say that because I am submissive, I would have had to swallow a lifetime of (what is for me) boring, gentle sex, is simply ludicrous. I am a part of the relationship too, and my desires are not discounted simply because it is my nature to want to please him.

I like to think that it pleases him much more to have me squirming and begging for more than it does to have me pulling a Victorian ideal, and lying back and "thinking of England" while he gets off. So in the interest of improving both sides of the relationship's sex lives, it's important to let your partner know and try to make them understand what it is you enjoy, and what you hope can be compromised upon.

 

[Ms_Kat]

My husband and I started out vanilla. Despite going through my teen years in the 1970s, I managed to have a fairly innocent life.

We stumbled on BDSM and lived it as a lifestyle with increasing depth over a period of years. It wasn't until we got the internet that I began to find out what we were doing had a name and that other people lived this way.

I've always taken the lead in this and he's always followed to my satisfaction. I have no idea what it would be like if either of us were different.

Hugs,



Kat

 

[shelleb4]

Subs submitting to vanilla: well as this thread is about vanilla relationships turning, and it would seem some of them are LTR. Us heterosexuals have a habit of having children. So walking off into the sunset waving your 5 McDonald stars because you were assertive enough to turn your back on -'vanilla for life' is not an option i hope that would be taken lightly.


Withought children involved
If you do not love your partner enough to stay, then you dont stay simple. Only when what your missing outstrips what your getting should you consider leaving obviously.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not talking about trotting off casually leaving your kids behind...


I'm talking about the shit sandwich people are often fed "if you are *really* submissive, you're there to please, so you should please by doing whatever your partner wants, and all your fetishistic needs are merely topping from below and hold no legitimacy"

I see that a lot.

I also grew up with a single parent, it's not the end of the whole world. Fighting people who hate each other and their life is not a good home environment.

Nor are people bored with each other, mostly.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Hey, go pick on somebody your own size, smartypants!

(Bet you just had to say Something because of that AV, ya perv. )

Now that you mention, that's a nice av.

 

[shy slave]

This is slightly off subject but have to agree with Netzach

I'm not talking about trotting off casually leaving your kids behind...


I'm talking about the shit sandwich people are often fed "if you are *really* submissive, you're there to please, so you should please by doing whatever your partner wants, and all your fetishistic needs are merely topping from below and hold no legitimacy"

I see that a lot.

I also grew up with a single parent, it's not the end of the whole world. Fighting people who hate each other and their life is not a good home environment.

Nor are people bored with each other, mostly.

During the last three years of my relationship a 'friend' fed me this 'shit sandwich.'

I decided enough was enough and I needed more in my life than than the current menu options.

I was a single parent before and I am again. The first time we escaped arguements and disagreements on an hourly basis, this time we escaped oppressive silence. Single parenthood is a better life than either of those options for my sons and I.

My teenagers make it clear they are pleased they are happier as a three-person unit.

Of course introducing my Master gave me worries but they are unfazed by it. One thinks He is ok, the other has grumpily decided 'as long as your happy.'

He does not live with us, and He is not a substitute 'father figure' in any sense of the word.

We do not bring D/s into their lives, but they have some idea and seem able to live with the knowledge that He and I are perverts.

Single parenthood is not the end of the world whatever the age of the children. They cope far better than people give them credit for.

Of course the alternative option is to find a 'play partner' that was not the answer for me, and from the posts Phoenix makes don't think its the answer for her either.

Sorry back to thread and is there anyonne out there who has happy, sucessful stories of making a vanilla have a few chocolate chips and some?

 

[Phoenix Stone]

G-d, I love you guys!!

This thread is so much just what i came to Literotica for. Will need to come back after sleep to respond.

Especially want to share things that made a diff, or those we tried that didn't work in case they might work for you, and hope you'll share the same.

For now, one that worked pretty well was voice-activated sex-toy. Because I love commands, and words, and my husband loves to watch, we tried a game where he could tell me to do anything and I did it, but once he stopped talking, i stopped moving. (I knew I had to make one condition, that he not touch me because once he starts touching, he doesn't care if l lie stock still, hold my breath and think of England -- he's happy. And won't talk.) Don't know if i explained this well but it was really hot for us. I loved finding out what he liked and he loved having total control. Didn't even mind the no touching because of the anticipation. It was great having him tell me what to do and seeing his face.

The one he came up with on his own was trying hypnotism on me, but at least that first time it didn't work all the way. He'd like to be able to make me cum on command. We're not there yet.

It was reassuring to hear people say that topping from the bottom isn't somehow some terrible rule I shouldn't be breaking. It felt that way. We need to do what works for us and I'm learning what that is. Reading about how to talk to a dom really helps me talk better with my husband. He's more of a dom than I recognized. Just the type that goes away and does his own thing, rather than forcing. And he's pretty unforceable himself. Agreeable, nice but definitely not a sub. Works for himself, does as he likes.

Anyway, too tired to finish.

'Nite All.

 

[shelleb4]

hiya all
well having been a single parent myself, i agree that its better than any kind of shit sandwhich for me and my kids. But each to her own.

Im just trying a new twist at the moment, getting the dom to train me, everyday no matter what excuse i give, i must train.
Im talking physical exercise here, not sub training, though i have the fantasy that the two will be combined.
This is my version of topping from the bottom. Not enough play makes this sub a very dull girl, so i kinda thought this would be easy for him to slip into Dom mode, i get to train and enjoy it too, he gets to Dom the lazy way. It is quite a lot of effort to Dom a session, so i thought this would be the lazybastard dom stylie, easy to achieve.
But yesterday he didnt, today he's not even dressed yet as were hungover,
yes, patience is a virtue, i know i know, but god, im running out of mine!

Mismatched is tiring sometimes. And all this insightful bollox doesnt count for jack shit when you waiting, waiting, waiting.

There, thats my saturday squinney out the way, coz im sure not all of you are virtuous or am i just a brat?

Maybe tonight? who knows......