missed the mark??

[kristydoll]

I like bdsm stories - they are one of my favorite genres to write - but I think I missed the mark here.

My latest submission, The Dance, was an attempt to describe an experience. Needless to say, it has not been well-received.

For me, the experience stands, but what I wish to get feedback on is if maybe this "story" (and I use that term loosely) should have been incorporated into another story - and not have stood alone.

Any thoughts are welcome.

kristy

 

[BigTexan]

Kristy,

I'm not a BDSM expert so please keep that in mind as you read this.

I personally don't think this needs to have anything wrapped around it. It was moving and erotic and complete.

Where I think you may be being dinged on the ratings, comes not from your writing, that is supurb, but from the female character.

In most BDSM stories one of the characters is submissive. Those of us not in the "lifestyle" who read BDSM stories like the roles to be clear cut. The woman in your story did not come across as submissive.

At the first of the story she was proud and holding her head up high. This is not a submissive posture. Later, after the spanking began, she got angry. This too is not stereotypical submissive behavior.

Don't get me wrong, the female character didn't make me lose interest in the story. I enjoyed it very much. In fact I would say that not only is this story the best written story I've read in a while, I would also say that it was one of the freshest and most interesting stories I've read in a while.

I voted it a 5 and other than the lack of a stereotyped submissive, I can't think of any reason anyone would give you a lower score.

BigTexan

 

[kristydoll]

Kristy,

Where I think you may be being dinged on the ratings, comes not from your writing, that is supurb, but from the female character.

In most BDSM stories one of the characters is submissive. Those of us not in the "lifestyle" who read BDSM stories like the roles to be clear cut. The woman in your story did not come across as submissive.

At the first of the story she was proud and holding her head up high. This is not a submissive posture. Later, after the spanking began, she got angry. This too is not stereotypical submissive behavior.

BigTexan

Thanks for your comments - I appreciate them *smiles*

And perhaps you are right about the female character not being what is typically expected in bdsm stories. That was partially my point in writing this. I think that stereotype hurts what truly is. I am proud, in myself and of my submission - and I hate pain ...lol. I go through the anger phase before acceptance.

But I think you are right - and am glad you made that point. Maybe the stories need to reflect "expectations" more.

kristy

 

[PaulX35]

A few reflections

Kristy,

I'm not a lifestyler, but I do have an interest in BDSM. From that limited perspective a few observations.

I loved the character's pride. For me, a submissive is preferrably not someone who will thoughtlessly undergo torture just for the sake of that per se. Submission is a choice rather than a fate, and one that has to be earned by a Dominant. And it's perhaps that aspect that I found lacking in your story. It's no doubt personal, but I love to see reason and motivation in a BDSM-story. This one showed merely pain, and its effects of release. But --again, for me-- without any background on the "why" of the dance, the "why" of the pain, the bond between the man with the crop and the one he is torturing.

Just my thoughts as to what might explain a less good reception. I wouldn't worry too much about it; it's not a theme that will attract many readers, which somehow always influences scores. I would myself never vote a story down because I'm not into the theme, but the aspect of identification seems important among the voting community, I think. Never let that stop anyone to post off-mainstream stories, though. We wouldn't want to become the McDonalds of erotica, after all.

I had one technical remark on the overall well written story. The word "dance" is repeated quite often, bordering on becoming disturbing.

I hope you'll not be discouraged in your future writing

Paul

 

[kristydoll]

Thanks Paul *smiles*

Points taken. You are right about no background. It simply tells of one experience and is why I did wonder if it maybe should have been incorporated into a story.

And the word "dance" is used a lot. I just might be classifed as borderline "disturbed" *grins*...but will be sure to not repeat myself so often in the future.

kristy

 

[the_bragis]

Hello kristydoll

Hello kristy,

Your story in my opinion is very good, only it's simply not really a story is it? Perhaps it feels like a part of something bigger, I'm not sure.

I think I can understand why it's been poorly received, and I believe it has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to write well.

It's a really lovely piece, probably just simply too lovely for many readers of bdsm, many of whom are looking for that 'edge' kind of scene. "Please Sir, not that!", "Yes, take that bitch!", you know the kind of rough and raw stuff I mean.

I guess too, a lot of readers enjoy dialog in a story. Dialog, and good dialog which I know you are very capable of, really draws readers into a story. Of course a story without dialog doesn't automatically deserve a low vote for me, but others many not agree.

And finally, and I believe this is the most crucial point. Around fifty percent of readers here are male, most men just simply wouldn't appreciate the exquist beauty of this. The good Dr Mabeuse made a comment the other day about a story by Eros the Natural, he said, it was a 'stroke story' for women. I think this is what we have here, a stroke story for women who are into bdsm. And kristy, I love it!

You got a five from me doll.

I wish you well with your future writing.

Have a great day,

Alex.

 

[Master_Vassago]

Kristy,
Ok, from one who is submersed in the lifestyle, and lol, don't worry I have written one story line here in BDSM that wasn't accepted as well as I hoped. Sorry got away from the point.

I loved it, the female encompassed those things which I would seek in My own submissive. Fiesty, passionate, shows slight disobediance, and then her bit of submission at the end. I truly liked it and the only thing wrong I think most men would find is there was no sex. Not a problem for Me. I found Myself watching this take place as I read it and really enjoyed it. Hehe forgot to vote must go back and do that. Good Job. I think it stands well enough alone.

 

[kristydoll]

the bragis and Master Vassago - thank you for your comments. More points well taken.

Perhaps the lack of dialogue and sex did make a difference to some readers. I can accept that as this was a more personal piece to me, about the experience, rather than whips and chains.

Am glad you enjoyed - and I have already learned much from all the comments received here.

kristy

 

[dr_mabeuse]

God, Kristy, I thought it was just a brilliant metaphor: the Dom/sub realtionship between them seen as a dance, each one responding to the other's moves, and I think I know exactly what you were trying to pull off. It's not a story; it's an extended metaphor (Why do I hear Ravel's Bolero?)

But it doesn't quite work as well as it should, and I'm not really sure why, but here's what I think.

The main thing, I think, is that you remain too objective throughout. We can't really see the interplay between them. You tell us what her feelings are, but we don't see those feelings manifested in her movements, her posture, her vocalizations. I am big on showing what characters feel and think through their expressions, posture, attitude, visual things like that. You seem to be too spare with those kind of visual details, so that what should be a very intense encounter comes off strangely flat and unemotional.

I know that you do include descriptions of what she's doing, but I think maybe not enough. We get her actions, what she's feeling,m and what he's doing all in the same paragraph, and maybe that muddles them.

When she starts to sway, is she clenching her buttocks, does her head fall forward, does she bite her lip, does she tremble with each blow? That's what I want to read. I'll decide for myself what she's feeling if you just describe what she's doing.

Look at the emotional tone of the entire piece. Does it crescendo and peak at her release? To me it seems to stay at the same level throughout. We get a description of what was going on, but where's the sweat, the heaving chest, the panting, the thrill of her helplessness and her trust? Too objective, too clinical. Get in there with her and report back to us.

Notice also that you actually abandon the whole dance metaphor partway through because we never see his reactions or his reciprocal feelings towards her. It becomes a solo.

I've still yet to read a good description of the transition from pain to pleasure. This is a great chance to explore that a little.
I really liked that part about the anger. That had really never occured to me, but now I see you're exactly right: that resistance always comes up.

I'd cut back on some of the abstract discussion of the dance at the start. It's not good to tell us about the dance before we'bve seen a performance. We know what's coming as soon as you set the scene, and I wouldn't eliminate all the discussion about the dynamics of the dance, just reduce them.

You've also got to really dig in for some colorful and juicy words and language in a piece like this. The language stayed too dry and clinical. This is nothing if not totally sensual. Sensuality is the whole plot and point. it's a piece that should be felt rather than understood. Big, fat, drippingly sensuous words.

Here's an excerpt:
--------------------------------------
The crop continues to reign down its pain. There is no pleasure now in that pain, nor is there supposed to be. She pleads to him with her eyes. The feelings intensify and she fights for control. Desperation has set in. She has forgotten the steps of the dance. But the dance is primal; the body remembers. Along with the tears come the begging. Anything to escape the ache of the crop. Her pleas and cries do nothing to stop as her body continues on with the dance.
--------------------------------------
She pleads, she cries, she begs. Powerful stuff. But do we really see that? Or do you just tell us that? (nitpick: you used the wrong "rain")

You know, it occurs to me now that this whole thing really is like describing a dance. The ballet, say. It wouldn't be enough to say, "She jumped into the air and spread her legs" to describe a ballerina's leap, but that's kind of what you've done here. How would you describe the ballerina's leap? If you cfan apply that to what happens between them, you'll have it.

Okay. I've gone on loing enough because I really am taken by your idea. Screw the ratings. What do they know. I'd really like to see you redo this piece. I think it could be really great.

---dr.M.

 

[kristydoll]

The main thing, I think, is that you remain too objective throughout. We can't really see the interplay between them. You tell us what her feelings are, but we don't see those feelings manifested in her movements, her posture, her vocalizations. I am big on showing what characters feel and think through their expressions, posture, attitude, visual things like that. You seem to be too spare with those kind of visual details, so that what should be a very intense encounter comes off strangely flat and unemotional.

Thank you, dr mabeuse, for all your comments. The paragraph above hit home for me.

I'd really like to see you redo this piece. I think it could be really great.

I think this is one piece that I will actually re-work - and would be grateful to hear if I have succeeded in making it better once finished.

Thank you again - so many thoughts - must get writing!

kristy

 

[VIKING511]

Loved it

If you rewrite it keep the original, I did enjoy it.
Dolly was an interesting bit, as well.
I have always been interested in B&D from a submissive standpoint. Being a fairly dominant size and personality, it is exquisite to sometimes give up the control and be "whipped into line" unfortunatly it is a pleasure I seldom(almost never) get to enjoy.

Keep the stories coming

Viking

 

[kristydoll]

Viking - thank you *smiles*

You made me laugh bring up "Dolly" - I'm not sure "interesting" is the right word - its more along the lines of "what the hell??"

kristy

 

[VIKING511]

welcome!

I have just read some of the stuff on you website, the Orchid stuff has really put some starch in my shorts so to speak...

I really am starting to enjoy your work.

Is there a word for a lit. groupy? LOL

 

[sirhugs]

I liked it, perhaps because I knew to approach it on its own terms. However, your warning on the stiory does that as well as your post here. On its own terms, it works well. It is well written, moving and I could picture the events. Yes, it could be a scene ion a story. But it ought not need to be.

Sure it could be improved ( Don't worry, I'm not going to say " by dialogue"), It tells more than it shows. And there are odd imperfertions that jump out in the clarity of the gem.


Such as:

She cares not about her appearance or sophistication; they matter nothing.

I think the end of that line ought to be " they matter not."

I also always find present tense odd.

I think you just unfortunately heard from the wrong audience.



Still, I to am not "in the lifestyle", just curious, and this whetted my curiosity. I only gave it a "4 ", but wished there is a 4.5 .

 

[kristydoll]

sirhugs - thanks for your feedback *smiles*

Your comment on present tense struck me because I did wonder about that too. I normally write in past tense but couldn't get this one to flow well that way. Perhaps in the re-write.

and Viking - thanks again. I'm a fan of Orchid too (though she doesn't let me write for her often).

kristy

 

[awaken41]

I can understand that your story will not appeal to everyone, but that is why you submitted it to the bdsm section. In its proper genre, you have captured the essence of a wonderful playscene. I appreciate that you did not use the word pain until well into the cropping. Too many stories are based upon what pain can be inflicted, which usually only applies to spanking scenes. You took your readers through the emotions and physical changes that a bottom/submissive experiences. Tops/Doms usually come across as ogres in stories, yet you have given subtle hints as to his physique and style-which the proper reader will appreciate.

Maybe we can all improve on our discriptions and dialogues, but the vision of the candles, the aroma of the cinammon and cloves (maybe the only thing missing was the burning incense!), all took me to recent memories of real dungeons and play parties.

The Dance holds its own as a story. If you were to be printed by any of the alternative publications, this would find the targeted audience.

D