Mink

[Siren]

 

[Rambling Rose]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I may be stumbling into a minefield but so what?

I don't wear fur. It's hot down here. It's not practical. If I were an Eskimo I'd probably be covered in animal skins, but I'm not so I don't. Minks are rodents. You wanna wear a glorified rat coat, go ahead. It's nice and shiny, but they're ugly little fuckers with their heads on.

My living room floor is covered in a big brown dead cow skin. I'm having a burger for dinner. I know I should feel terrible about the sweet slaughtered cows, but I'm a hungry, selfish, skin owning, meat eating heathen.

I love my dog though. I'd never make a coat from her hide. I do have my limits.

 

[Guest]

 

[Rambling Rose]

That's rich, coming from you Hanns. Maybe I should have removed my tongue from my cheek before attempting to appeal to your intelligence.

 

[Siren]

 

[Rambling Rose]

I don't know about all that, Siren. I think he's just boring and repetitive and gets off on pushing what he imagines are other people's buttons.

He's not interesting enough to be a serial killer.

 

[Lancecastor]

What the HELL does one have to do with the other?

It's a Sustainable Development vs Military/Industrial Complex argument.

Today I heard that the expected increase in a barrel of crude in the USA when you start bombing Iraq will be offset by the GDP increase from making war.

The point is that North American society relies heavily on petroleum for nearly everything, whereas renewable resources such as wind & hydro for energy, animals for clothes, etc are being underutilized.

Mink are rodents; produce enough of them and the price goes down.

They're not making any more oil.

Let me know if you need more info to understand the link, but I maintain that harvesting seals, mink, etc is far more honourable than colonizing other countries by force to secure their oil.

 

[sunstruck]

Wow, if you stretch that link any farther Lance you'd reach Iraq.

 

[islandman]

Let me know if you need more info to understand the link, but I maintain that harvesting seals, mink, etc is far more honourable than colonizing other countries by force to secure their oil.

How long do you think the seal and mink supply will last? What do we do then?

 

[Problem Child]

Wow, if you stretch that link any farther Lance you'd reach Iraq.

No shit. I wonder how many billions of barrels of crude oil the mink industry saves us each year.

 

[Problem Child]

How long do you think the seal and mink supply will last? What do we do then?

Minks are farm-raised. Seal fur isn't as far as I know, but I think the use of seal fur is rather limited in comparison (unless you're an eskimo).

 

[sunstruck]

No shit. I wonder how many billions of barrels of crude oil the mink industry saves us each year.

You mean we can't solve the energy crisis by wearing designer coats? Damn. I guess I'm just not doing my part.

 

[Saint Peter]

You mean we can't solve the energy crisis by wearing designer coats? Damn. I guess I'm just not doing my part.

Start small. Just save the ozone by not spray painting the fur coat already being worn.

 

[Lancecastor]

Well, you got away with putting a tiger in your tank for a long time and they're still not quite extinct....minks are smaller and burn cleaner...you should get 30-40 years out of it.

~~~

It's about sustainable development kids; the USA is collectively hiding in its homes right now and will continue to do so until you either go out and colonize another OPEC nation or learn to become more self-reliant.

 

[Siren]

 

[Saint Peter]

thats our ST Peter............always finding a way to be earth friendly.

SaintPeter always says:


Keep the Earth clean...It's not Uranus

 

[Siren]

 

[Problem Child]

Well, you got away with putting a tiger in your tank for a long time and they're still not quite extinct....minks are smaller and burn cleaner...you should get 30-40 years out of it.

~~~

It's about sustainable development kids; the USA is collectively hiding in its homes right now and will continue to do so until you either go out and colonize another OPEC nation or learn to become more self-reliant.

I'm all for sustainable development. I just think that promoting mink farming as even a minor source of reducing our reliance on petroleum is pretty fucking ridiculous though.

 

[Lancecastor]

I'm all for sustainable development. I just think that promoting mink farming as even a minor source of reducing our reliance on petroleum is pretty fucking ridiculous though.

You're right of course; mink do not reduce reliance on petroleum.

But if it comes down to killing mink or killing Iraqis....I presume most would choose the former.

Which therefore highlites the argument that wearing a mink coat is not a very big deal at all compared to the chain of events triggered by filling your SUV to commute alone to Ponderosa and Home Depot, dodging bullets at each stop.

 

[Sandia]

Lance, bees are bugs. It's ok to be mean to them.

seX, having never been a bug, my opinion about their consciousness is based purely on my observations of them.

Single-cell organisms react to stimuli. So do bugs. So do computers, for that matter, or cars. Whatever consciousness is, it's more than the ability to react to stimuli.

The fact that a bug will fly away if you wave your hand at it doesn't mean it's conscious or that it has the ability to feel pain.

It's what its programming requires it to do.

The Palestinians, on the other hand, are people.

Here's a pic of Palestinian bodies after the massacre at Sabra and Shatila.

http://www.iap.org/sabra_and_shatila.jpg

 

[Agent99]

Re: Re: Re: Omnivore and proud of it!

Agent 99, I made # 5 last in the list for a reason, you know...so you could go: "Yep, uh huh, yep, hey this guy's enlightened....then....boi-oi-oi-oing! He's a pig-dog?!"

Tip: Ruby's reaction is the way to go, 99.....

Lance, You didn't read what I wrote! I said that you had me up until the last SENTENCE of #5. I was referring to your comment about young women. I felt that was a harsh commentary against the sexy older babes out there! Not the fact women look good in fur!

As to the rest of it, I agree with much of what sunstruck posted. As I stated in my first post, I see no reason to sacrifice an animal for it's fur. But there is a huge difference between that and killing an animal for nourishment.

For years I have been fascinated in the logic used by vegetarians who label meat eaters as violent and savage, while not realizing that growing fruits and vegetables only to harvest and consume them (and eating eggs and fish and chicken) is the exact same thing.

Evolution has brought us to a place where we subsist on a variety of animal and plant life. Some would argue that man has no dominion over other creatures. Of course he does. As do other predators over the life forms beneath them in the food chain.

I would like to point out another area where Lance is correct. People may certainly be vigilant about researching and using products that do not TEST using animals, but you'd be surprised how many products are made using animal components. Certain ingredients in medicines could not be processed without animal proteins.

Gelatins -which are made from connective tissue from cows and other animals go into candy, dairy products, diet foods. They are also used in binding agents. Do you use detergents? Sponges? Cosmetics?

How about candles? Many people burn candles not knowing a large percentage is made from these substances. Same for crayons, ceramics, floor wax.

Do you use insecticides? Perhaps you have linoleum floors or insulation in your attic. I bet you have paint on your walls. Hopefully you use soap when you bathe.

You wear clothing, shoes, belts; carry wallets and purses and luggage. You sit on leather furniture. When you drive a car, it has antifreeze in it. Your driveways and streets and roofing products made of asphalt all contain fats, gelatins, chemicals derived from animals.

I use all these products and am thankful for all of them. I simply choose not to wear the sable or lynx or fox or mink's fur on my back. Because it doesn't do anything for my life other than make a (dubious) status statement. There are plenty of marvelous fake fur manufacturers out there if I really wanted to wear that look.

My point was that I am sick and tired of people yelling at me for eating and LOVING a steak dinner when they are just as culpable by using animal products in their lives. They are just uninformed hypocrites when they deny doing so.

 

[Problem Child]

You're right of course; mink do not reduce reliance on petroleum.

But if it comes down to killing mink or killing Iraqis....I presume most would choose the former.

Which therefore highlites the argument that wearing a mink coat is not a very big deal at all compared to the chain of events triggered by filling your SUV to commute alone to Ponderosa and Home Depot, dodging bullets at each stop.

I don't know what dodging bullets at Home Depot has to with saving mink at all.

Of course there is a huge difference between killing Iraqis and killing a rodent, but just because it's a shame that we might be killing Iraqis soon doesn't justify killing animals for their fur as a primary reason.

I'd be a hypocrite to say that I am against the taking of an animal life merely for human pleasure. I occasionally go out and slaughter squirrels with a .22 magnum rifle, and it gives me a great deal of pleasure.

Some people probably think I'm a barbarian and a shallow person for doing that. I really don't care if they think that or not. I'm going to keep shooting squirrels occasionally because I enjoy it.

And it doesn't really bother me if people wear fur. I agree that there is something a little too disturbingly vain about wearing fur that I don't like. Plus, there are synthetic furs that look pretty damn good. But, if you really feel the need to wear fur I'm not going to throw a bucket of blood on you.

I just think that using oil, or some sniper near DC in this argument is a little silly.

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Omnivore and proud of it!

For years I have been fascinated in the logic used by vegetarians who label meat eaters as violent and savage, while not realizing that growing fruits and vegetables only to harvest and consume them (and eating eggs and fish and chicken) is the exact same thing.

This is the third or fourth time I've seen someone say that there is no difference between plant life and animal life. Are you people serious? Animals have consciousness. Animals feel pain. Plants do not. Killing a plant for sustenance is not "the exact same thing as killing an animal.

Evolution has brought us to a place where we subsist on a variety of animal and plant life. Some would argue that man has no dominion over other creatures. Of course he does. As do other predators over the life forms beneath them in the food chain.

I would like to point out another area where Lance is correct. People may certainly be vigilant about researching and using products that do not TEST using animals, but you'd be surprised how many products are made using animal components. Certain ingredients in medicines could not be processed without animal proteins....

...The entire argument that it's okay to wear fur because there are a lot of useable by-products is specious. The reason that there are by-products from mink farming is because people wear fur, not the other way around.

This argument is like saying war is a good thing because there are a lot less people around after it's all over. It might be a true statement, but reducing overpopulation is not a justification for having a war.

 

[lavender]

 

[sexy-girl]

its nice to see that some other people are enjoying debating with lance