Minimum wage

[Comshaw]

Over the years I've heard all kinds of prognostications, opinions and arguments from Ish, AJ and bb that raising the minimum wage would, without a doubt, just kill the economy. well it doesn't appear that is the case after all.

"...The politics of the minimum wage never seems to change much, with liberals presuming to speak on behalf of labor and conservatives on behalf of capital.

But what if sufficient context and perspective could show that the House measure, dubbed the “Raise the Wage Act” and inspired in 2012 by fast-food workers' Fight for $15 in New York City, could benefit capital and labor alike?

The federal minimum wage last went up in 2009, to $7.25 an hour.

Since then, 29 states have approved minimum wages above the federal level. California, New York and Washington were among the first to establish a $15 hourly rate, and their economies expanded with bigger boosts in personal income, job growth and consumer spending than the 21 states resisting anything above $7.25, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Since 2015, the economies of the higher-minimum wage states are substantially more robust than the rest of the U.S..."

Hmmmmmmm........



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/states-high-minimum-wages-doing-090013265.html


Comshaw

 

[CandiCame]

In other news, water makes stuff wet.

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

If you read the article the guy can't make up his mind about anything.

 

[Comshaw]

If you read the article the guy can't make up his mind about anything.

While I'm sure you believe that, how about citing the conflicting parts of the article to prove your point? Or can you?


Comshaw

 

[Shelly2inme]

In the short run it works...

For a short time an unnatural-government-enforced-wage rate will appear to boost the economy because people will have more spending money. But it is an illusion. In the long run businesses will have to charge more or go out of business. If they go out of business then everyone that worked for them suddenly has a wage decrease - zero. If he business stays afloat by raising prices then the cost of products goes up and eats the inflated raise. So, cutting the bottom of a sheet off and sewing it onto the top does not really make the sheet longer.

But aside from the economic factors pause and think of the ethics. The concept is that an abstract entity like a government somehow has the right to force business owners to pay what they say must be paid. No matter how low the performance is the government forces the business owner to do something they don't want to do with THEIR money. It is not the governments money. It is unethical and a form of legalized stealing.

If a business has to compete with other businesses they will be forced to give a decent wage or worker will leave.

 

[Misshotndeep]

The thing I don’t get is why this is an either or case. Some places need the minimum raised due to their cost of living. Some places are fine where they are. There is no one size fits all answer here. No black and white.

 

[bellisarius]

While I'm sure you believe that, how about citing the conflicting parts of the article to prove your point? Or can you?


Comshaw

Let's start with the fact that the article states, "no conclusive proof" one way or the other. The article 'suggests' what you are asserting is true, but then goes on to compare 8 years of data to 4 years of data.

Let me point out that any legislative increase in minimum wage is, in fact, nothing more than the government giving itself a raise. Wages go up, prices go up, tax revenues go up. It's like fucking magic, isn't it? Same goes for payroll taxes (the most regressive tax of all) and income taxes.

I'd be willing to bet that most of those states that have enacted the minimum wage increase are running deficits with even greater deficits on the horizon. But that information isn't in the article.

I notice that one of the citations in the article is from a union leader. A union representing damn few that make/made minimum wage to begin with. Why is that? Could it be that most union contracts have a clause that adjusts members wages to float with minimum wage? And those that don't have such a clause use it as a bargaining chip at the next round of negotiations. He is NOT looking out for the little guy, he's representing his members. I have no problem with that, I do have a problem with his using the heavy hand of government to do so.

So why is there this effort to enact such a law on the Federal level? Could it be that by doing so those states forestall the flight of business from their states? By making it a Federal law if "levels the playing field?" If you think that through it leaves many concerns with no alternative but to off-shore.

Those that can't off-shore, the local service and food providers, have no choice but to raise their prices as well. Which hits all of us right in the wallet. Prices go up and perceived business activity has increased. In reality that is nothing more than inflation. The greater dollar flow is portrayed as increased business activity when in reality it's nothing more that a reflection of the decreased value of the dollar itself. The only entity that truly profits is the government, and then only temporarily.

And if my words ring false with you then you need to answer but one question. "If wage increases are not inflationary, why to we continually need to increase wages?"

 

[Que]

. . .not to mention the fact that these increases do not occur in a vacuum. We just had a turnaround in employment. Long before we reached our current level of employment it was already getting harder for employers to find and retain long-term quality workers. Workers were suddenly mobile again after almost a decade of being stuck doing whatever it is they were doing. With no minimum wage increase one should expect wages to have risen in any case. What a minimum wage increase does is lower the gap between underperforming workers at a given location and highly productive workers.

You're going to see a slew of nonsense like the above article all the way up until the 2020 election because the Democrats are going to pretend to want a $15, or now $20 an hour minimum wage (Why not $59 or $203?)

They'll probably pass something like that in the house knowing it will get shot down in the Senate because actual arithmetic and economics says it's going to harm the poorest the most. It's going to put more people on government benefits, well artificially subsidizing those who are the least productive but employed.

That and free college is supposed to drive the dumbest, laziest, and least productive citizens to the polls to vote Democrat.

Minimum wage is also a huge giveaway to the Union's because most union contracts involve a certain amount over whatever the prevailing minimum wages.

The entire concept of a national minimum wage is retarded. How does it make any sense to insist that a roadside stand in Podunk, Iowa has to pay the exact same amount as a kitchen worker in San Francisco?

It's ridiculous to think that you can have a net positive effect on society by simply interfering with the free exchange of capital and labor. Never mind the unintended and currently unknown consequences of any particular dollar amount and how it would affect any particular business industry or individual there are so many obvious consequences it's a ridiculous idea to pursue. We shouldn't have a minimum wage at all.

If the government has the constitutional right to tell a human being what they can and cannot accept in compensation from an employer then why can't they simply set wage and price controls for everything in society? That went really well for Carter. Working out great in Venezuela as well.

 

[Hal9000_]

Why not maximum wage?

 

[Kantarii]

Why not maximum wage?

A maximum wage will never happen in a capitalistic economy.

 

[Hal9000_]

A maximum wage will never happen in a capitalistic economy.

hence the ,

commie

 

[Jada59]

I'm in WA. People are worse off with the higher wage. Many of them got their hours cut so they were not making as much money. Some small businesses were forced to close or be run by the owner alone which means they have to close their shop when they have to leave and go do something. Or... They have a spouse or family member who does not draw a salary fill in as needed.

 

[Kantarii]

I'm in WA. People are worse off with the higher wage. Many of them got their hours cut so they were not making as much money. Some small businesses were forced to close or be run by the owner alone which means they have to close their shop when they have to leave and go do something. Or... They have a spouse or family member who does not draw a salary fill in as needed.

What good is $15hr. if the person isn’t able to get a full 40hrs. or overtime?

 

[Jada59]

What good is $15hr. if the person isn’t able to get a full 40hrs. or overtime?

It's not. The Dimbawallies who passed this, based it on a flawed study. I think the study was from CA. Not sure. The study proved that it did not work. But they fake newsed it and this is what we have.

Young people are having a horrible time finding jobs here because people don't want to have to pay them that much. And people can't make a living wage. Many have to work 2-3 jobs to pay the rent or house payment. That means more more spent to commute to and from those jobs, more money spent on daycare, and in some cases having to buy additional wardrobe items to fit the jobs.

 

[Kantarii]

It's not. The Dimbawallies who passed this, based it on a flawed study. I think the study was from CA. Not sure. The study proved that it did not work. But they fake newsed it and this is what we have.

Young people are having a horrible time finding jobs here because people don't want to have to pay them that much. And people can't make a living wage. Many have to work 2-3 jobs to pay the rent or house payment. That means more more spent to commute to and from those jobs, more money spent on daycare, and in some cases having to buy additional wardrobe items to fit the jobs.

It’s funny how Democrats think they have all the answers. I said it before, I’ll say it again. If everyone had the same amount of money, say, $10 million, the entire economy would collapse. Sure everyone is rich, but no one would want to work. That’s only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[HisArpy]

I'm in WA. People are worse off with the higher wage. Many of them got their hours cut so they were not making as much money. Some small businesses were forced to close or be run by the owner alone which means they have to close their shop when they have to leave and go do something. Or... They have a spouse or family member who does not draw a salary fill in as needed.

The Bernie campaign people just found out the hard way how true this is.

It's not. The Dimbawallies who passed this, based it on a flawed study. I think the study was from CA. Not sure. The study proved that it did not work. But they fake newsed it and this is what we have.

Young people are having a horrible time finding jobs here because people don't want to have to pay them that much. And people can't make a living wage. Many have to work 2-3 jobs to pay the rent or house payment. That means more more spent to commute to and from those jobs, more money spent on daycare, and in some cases having to buy additional wardrobe items to fit the jobs.

For some reason, people seem to think they're owed something. A home. A job. Money. Success. That entire idea is a fantasy. The best piece of advice I ever heard was; If you can't afford to live where you're living, you should move.

 

[Kantarii]

For some reason, people seem to think they're owed something. A home. A job. Money. Success. That entire idea is a fantasy. The best piece of advice I ever heard was; If you can't afford to live where you're living, you should move.

Isn’t that called entitlement?

 

[LukNotLuke]

At least now Q-#### will get that raise that he doesn't deserve.

 

[BotanyBoy]

While I'm sure you believe that, how about citing the conflicting parts of the article to prove your point? Or can you?


Comshaw

Because "progressive" anti-free association/free-commerce leftist religious zealots don't ever....ever ever ever listen to anything that DARES conflict with their religion.

Even if it's from their own sources.

What good is $15hr. if the person isn’t able to get a full 40hrs. or overtime?

Uhhhhh.....ummmm......uhhhhh...tha....uh..... the 1% has more wealth than the bottom 99%!!!!!

In other news the left is already calling for 20/hr.....
https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-says-federal-minimum-wage-should-20-per-hour-not-15-1450607

 

[Ann_Tagonist]

There is a reason we have a huge trade deficit with China.

 

[HisArpy]

Isn’t that called entitlement?

It's a fantasy to believe you're owed anything, entitlement or not.

First rule of money:

NO ONE, not even your mom, will do ANYTHING solely for your benefit when it comes to money. Not one dam person. Including you.

 

[Kantarii]

It's a fantasy to believe you're owed anything, entitlement or not.

First rule of money:

NO ONE, not even your mom, will do ANYTHING solely for your benefit when it comes to money. Not one dam person. Including you.

Well, the Democrat Party is a party of dreamers. So fantasy kinda fits in well there.

 

[Biggs_Darklighter]

While I'm sure you believe that, how about citing the conflicting parts of the article to prove your point? Or can you?


Comshaw

You can't just read it and see how he's all over the place on it? It's a very poorly written piece that never makes a decision.

 

[FGB]

I say let the current minimum wage be the minimum and $15.00 an hour be the Maximum allowed but not mandatory.

Let each business minimum wage float to its own level.

I know makes to much sense...

 

[Rightguide]

The federal government has no business or authority to establish a Minimum Wage to begin with and ought to stay out of the private economy. If two people in a free society enter into an economic agreement that both parties are happy with and no laws are broken, what business does the government have in intervening?