Micromanagement Values and Potential in D/s Relationships

[cati]

Personally, I don't understand how one can be micromanaged in the bedroom. I would appreciate it if anyone could explain this concept to me. Does this mean step by step instruction on how to please ones partner?
I for one would like to, prefer to have free reign to express myself and my passion in the bedroom... however my Dom doesn't allow me to do this. Needless to say I'm really, really unhappy about this.....

 

[BeachGurl2]

Personally, I don't understand how one can be micromanaged in the bedroom. I would appreciate it if anyone could explain this concept to me. Does this mean step by step instruction on how to please ones partner?
I for one would like to, prefer to have free reign to express myself and my passion in the bedroom... however my Dom doesn't allow me to do this. Needless to say I'm really, really unhappy about this.....

I don't view micromanagement in the bedroom to include step-by-step instruction on how to please your partner. But I have already come to realize that my view of micromanagement seems to be different from most others. I don't believe that it includes how you express yourself. But again, that's just my opinion. After this thread, I'm not sure my opinion carries much weight around here.

 

[RJMasters]

I think that the term is based in management.

Management is this notion of being in control and telling others what to do.

Micro means small or little...in other words manage the small details.

I don't think I could handle managing every single thing down to the smallest of details. Uck.

However....I do think that managing some things down to the smallest detail is not automatically negative either...infact sometimes that can add spice.

Beachgurl's example of a planned out wardrobe is a good example of a specific aspect or thing being micromanaged. That is not to say that everything is micromanaged. Consider Quint's example of the cheesecake(yum).

Here you have two interesting examples of how micromanagement came into play. The wardrobe example is someting that is planned out down to the type of panties that will be worn. The management is limited or specified to this activity.

The cheescake example is a bit different in that seemed to me to be an example of on the spot micromanagement.

I am willing to go out on a limb here and say that I bet either of these two dominants could care less about wardrobe or the angle of the fork that Quint holds her fork at when she eats her cheesecake. No, I think something else is happening here that is kind of unique...and is different than the sterotypical view of what micromanagement is.

These exchanges can range at times from being erotic, hot and spontaneous...to controlled, planned and calculated.

I am comfortable and even prefer the overall relationship to not have a need of micromanagement, but I honestly admit at times I like to drink unadulterated from that raw source of controlling another...yeah even down to the level of the angle in which the fork is being held. Not because I really care about the angle of the damn fork, but because of the awesome feeling I get from the one who adjusts the fork. The color or type of panties I lay out to be worn is not as important to me as the feeling of the one who slide them on knowing I chose those for today.

When micromanagement events happen, for me it is about "her living in the/that moment" of my decision. There is an added focus above and beyond the normal level of control which takes place from day to day.

I am glad that I do not have a desire to micromanage everything, because it accentuates the times I choose to do it, and because I honestly believe that by doing it all the time, I would miss out on the best part of what a submissive has to offer me from herself.

 

[JMohegan]

Control. Manage. Dictate.

To the people I know who embrace D/s, these are not negative terms. They describe behavior that enriches their lives, gives them a sense of comfort and fulfillment, and turns them on.

How much control is appropriate, and what kind? These are questions that can only be answered by individuals, according to their specific needs and desires.

I have had this conversation dozens of times with non-D/s family and close friends, carefully explaining what it is that I do, and why. What is interesting to me about this thread is that many of the responses here reflect the very same misconceptions and expressions of personal disgust that non-D/s people initially express when discussing moderate levels of power exchange.

This is just a sliding scale, folks. That's all. And it seems to me that consenting partners on one end of the scale deserve to have their preferences and needs discussed with the same level of respect for their choices with which we discuss those on the other end, and everywhere in between.

 

[cati]

BeachGirl2: I don't believe that it includes how you express yourself. But again, that's just my opinion. After this thread, I'm not sure my opinion carries much weight around here.

Your opinion, as well as everyone elses carries tons of weight! Micromanagement as far as I know hs nothing to do with how one expresses oneself in the bedroom or anywhere else.
Perhaps I'm the one who should apologize for expressing my thoughts haphazardly...shrugs....

RJ's definition is an accurate one.
JMohegan's stated that it could be matter of degree... a sliding scale...and he too is right on the button, ergo the difference in being a sub or slave? I would think the more slavish the girl, the more desirous or accepting of being micromanaged.
Again only my feelings on the topic.
Is there a difference in the Dom dictating to his sub how he wants her to dress etc. or if she is the one who is "asking him" what she should wear or how she should carry out her duties?

I find it interesting that many here find micromanagement "hot".....shivers.

 

[cati]

RJ Masters: I will even admit that some of my hottest fantasies of which I have had the pleasure of doing a few involve and intense scene of Micromanagement. Perhaps the problem is that people have different definitions of what micromanagement is....to which I might suggest opening your mind a bit and entertain what micromanagement could be.

Sure I spose I would like to open my mind...can't hurt afterall.
But, ummm would you give me an example of what goes on during an intense scene of macromanaging, because I really don't know....least I think I don't.
Would you kindly share your fantasies with the rest of us RJ....sexual ones are always good.

 

[RJMasters]

RJ Masters: I will even admit that some of my hottest fantasies of which I have had the pleasure of doing a few involve and intense scene of Micromanagement. Perhaps the problem is that people have different definitions of what micromanagement is....to which I might suggest opening your mind a bit and entertain what micromanagement could be.

Sure I spose I would like to open my mind...can't hurt afterall.
But, ummm would you give me an example of what goes on during an intense scene of macromanaging, because I really don't know....least I think I don't.
Would you kindly share your fantasies with the rest of us RJ....sexual ones are always good.

When I get some time today or this evening, I will do so.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Control. Manage. Dictate.

To the people I know who embrace D/s, these are not negative terms. They describe behavior that enriches their lives, gives them a sense of comfort and fulfillment, and turns them on.

How much control is appropriate, and what kind? These are questions that can only be answered by individuals, according to their specific needs and desires.

I have had this conversation dozens of times with non-D/s family and close friends, carefully explaining what it is that I do, and why. What is interesting to me about this thread is that many of the responses here reflect the very same misconceptions and expressions of personal disgust that non-D/s people initially express when discussing moderate levels of power exchange.

This is just a sliding scale, folks. That's all. And it seems to me that consenting partners on one end of the scale deserve to have their preferences and needs discussed with the same level of respect for their choices with which we discuss those on the other end, and everywhere in between.

You're not alone in your surprise to the reactions here JM. To me it is about the ultimate level of control, and also power over, which is what most Dominants in D/s say gets them off and what most submissives want to experience in varying degrees. Sure micromanagement at the extreme level (such as BeachGurl 2 described and is for some real) is not for everyone (us included), but I am missing why those who do get off on it are being interpreted or thought of as obviously incompetent or lacking in some way on both the Dom/me and sub side of it. Though we do not have the time or energy or desire to give to the extreme end of micromanagement, F often gets off on directing me in minute detail how and when to do a particular task, not because he doubts I am capable of doing it correctly without direction, but simply because he likes to remind me he has that control over me if and when he chooses to use it. Interestingly, in many instances, his instructions comflict with what or how I would normally do the task or how or when he would want it done simply because that also works toward applying more thought into completing it successfully than through instinct or habit, and emphasises his control.

Catalina

 

[cati]

Interestingly, in many instances, his instructions comflict with what or how I would normally do the task or how or when he would want it done simply because that also works toward applying more thought into completing it successfully than through instinct or habit, and emphasises his control.

Go figure....hehe. I think this is a Dom thing Catalina and it might be something linked to character and a striving for perfection. I say this only as it relates so well to my own personal experience.
I'm still waiting for replies to micromanagement in the bedroom...sigh.

 

[BeachGurl2]

...Sure micromanagement at the extreme level (such as BeachGurl 2 described and is for some real) is not for everyone (us included), but I am missing why those who do get off on it are being interpreted or thought of as obviously incompetent or lacking in some way on both the Dom/me and sub side of it. Though we do not have the time or energy or desire to give to the extreme end of micromanagement, F often gets off on directing me in minute detail how and when to do a particular task, not because he doubts I am capable of doing it correctly without direction, but simply because he likes to remind me he has that control over me if and when he chooses to use it.
Catalina

My reply did read as if I viewed the submissive as incompetent or lacking, but that wasn't truly what I meant. For me, this kind of micromanagement on a daily basis would be frustrating for 2 reasons - one would be the time and energy involved in both giving and awaiting instruction and two would be that I would eventually begin to feel as if I were incompetent. I'm not saying that I don't like micromanagement on occasion - even on a daily basis for one thing or another, like I described with clothing. But I personally would not be interested in a Dom who wanted to manage ever little thing I did throughout the day.

I'm still waiting for replies to micromanagement in the bedroom...sigh.

It's interesting, isn't it, that we can all discuss pretty openly day-to-day things yet no one has addressed this part of your post, Cati. I've been thinking about how to address it since I'm the one who said that I love micromanagement in the bedroom.

To me this translates to submitting to his control 100%. In a relationship, I don't go in for scene negotiation. I view that at a 'bottom' activity not a sub activity. And while I might agree to bottom someone in play, that does not mean that I am submitting to that person. (And when in a relationship, I don't bottom to anyone unless he specifically instructs it.) In the bedroom, he has total control. From telling me what position to be in (or moving me into the position he desires), choosing the activities, and even controlling my ability to orgasm. I, of course, have my favorite activities - being bound, hot wax, floggings - and I have my least favorite activities - caning - and sometimes I get what I like and sometimes I don't. But I don't get to choose. Which is the point.

 

[RJMasters]

When I get some time today or this evening, I will do so.

I am too tired to write out this post tonight...its been a long day...but I will sometime tomorrow...

 

[chris9]

Maybe the negative responses, especially at the beginning of the thread, came not mainly from a reflection on what micromanagement means/can mean, but rather as a reflection on certain people. If I know only one person who is into whatever, and I don't like that person, maybe even because he is into whatever too fundamentalistically, too much trying to push me to find the same thing good, it happens that I associate this with the whatever in question and makes me view the whole thing rather negatively.

I agree that micromanagement, like other questions of the level of control present depends much on the persons involved. I might consider something too much control that for Rebecca or ADR (naming them because they spoke very definite against micromanagement, no offense meant to them or anyone else who I have not named despite them voicing similar opinions) is wanted, requested, needed. Activities that would for me be either good or bad micromanagement (depending on whether it sticks to *my* side of how controlled I want to be, or what is too much for *me*), might not be micromanagement for someone else.

I believe I pretty much agree to RJ's idea of micromanagement. For me submission means I want to make his life easier. Doing stuff for him, the way he wants them done. I liked Geoff's example of cooking. If a partner spends as much time telling me what to do as I need to do it, I wonder why he doesn't do it himself. I would probably even consider him telling me every day what dish to cook as micromanagement. Saying occasionally or even often 'I want ...', no problem. But on the whole I believe it would be too much control for me.
I rather like the idea of being micromanaged for a specific amoung of time, like spending a weekend together where I'm told what to wear, when to do whatever, not being allowed to use the bathroom without permission, that kind of thing. I find the fantasy incredibly hot. But I believe for any longer time I would just get annoyed by it, and the sexual tension would dwindle away much like RJ said.

I once read a personal ad where the Dominant in question wanted a slave he could completely re-form to his ideal partner. He proposed a development over several steps where she would take up hobbies he deemed appropriate, learn skills/about subjects he deemed important for her, take up a job he chose, down to her complete appearance, taking away what looked like her (what kept in my mind was mainly that he wanted to shave all her hair and have her wear wigs as he chose). Of course I don't know if he was serious in all this, or if there are women who desire this. It is, to me, taking away the personality, character, identity of said woman. I remember this still because I wondered who would want to give up everything that's them. And who would want to bother to make a new person, rather god-like.
I rather like myself, which on the whole I consider good for any partner, too, and I really don't want to give up myself. I think at some point of control it becomes too much as still allowing me to be me.

And I'm curious as to the sexual micromanagement as well. I find micromanagement of non-sexual things hot, thusly turning to sex. But constant micromanagement in the bedroom escapes my understanding. What do you (general you) mean by it?

 

[JMohegan]

You're not alone in your surprise to the reactions here JM. To me it is about the ultimate level of control, and also power over, which is what most Dominants in D/s say gets them off and what most submissives want to experience in varying degrees. Sure micromanagement at the extreme level (such as BeachGurl 2 described and is for some real) is not for everyone (us included), but I am missing why those who do get off on it are being interpreted or thought of as obviously incompetent or lacking in some way on both the Dom/me and sub side of it.

Thank you, Catalina. This is what I have been "missing" too.

 

[JMohegan]

My reply did read as if I viewed the submissive as incompetent or lacking, but that wasn't truly what I meant. For me, this kind of micromanagement on a daily basis would be frustrating for 2 reasons - one would be the time and energy involved in both giving and awaiting instruction and two would be that I would eventually begin to feel as if I were incompetent.

I appreciate your clarification, and I'll also note that I understand why extensive control doesn't feel right for you. I am a big picture guy myself.

But just to further the general understanding of what we are talking about here, I'd like to comment on the assumption I have colored in red.

It seems to me that a lot would depend on your partner's attitude. If the instructions were accompanied by berating of the type described by Rose in post 3, then of course you would feel that the control reflected a perceived inadequacy on your part.

However, your partner might offer a very different explanation for what's going on - e.g., a constant reminder of his control (which you both find hot, hot, hot) or a challenge to your focus, etc.

And if he acknowledged your effort - the time, energy, and extraordinary commitment being made to heed his instructions carefully and follow through to the best of your ability - then it seems to me that you might have the exact opposite reaction from the one you have surmised. Instead of feeling incompetent, you might feel highly valued, skilled as a submissive, and proud of your accomplishments.

 

[cati]

Quite right. I just wanted to add my Dom's opionion. He claims that micro-management can be explained by the sub calling her Dom at work and asking him if she should wear panties that day, what colour should she wear, would she be allowed to wear pants or would he prefer a skirt, makeup or no makeup, hair up or down etc. etc. down to the nitty gritty. In this case I would think the girl seems mindless and unable to make these decisions on her own...which I doubt.
Again an example of how much control the Dominant wishes to have over his sub.
This kind of scenario could get old real quick.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I appreciate your clarification, and I'll also note that I understand why extensive control doesn't feel right for you. I am a big picture guy myself.

But just to further the general understanding of what we are talking about here, I'd like to comment on the assumption I have colored in red.

It seems to me that a lot would depend on your partner's attitude. If the instructions were accompanied by berating of the type described by Rose in post 3, then of course you would feel that the control reflected a perceived inadequacy on your part.

However, your partner might offer a very different explanation for what's going on - e.g., a constant reminder of his control (which you both find hot, hot, hot) or a challenge to your focus, etc.

And if he acknowledged your effort - the time, energy, and extraordinary commitment being made to heed his instructions carefully and follow through to the best of your ability - then it seems to me that you might have the exact opposite reaction from the one you have surmised. Instead of feeling incompetent, you might feel highly valued, skilled as a submissive, and proud of your accomplishments.

I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. My only real experience with a little of that level of control was with egomaniacs who were out to prove how very smart and in control they were. One was my ex-husband and the other was a thankfully short-lived bout of insanity on my part. Neither were situations where I was praised at all but instead was contantly berated for not doing exactly as I was told - and not being a mind reader to boot. So yes, my experience with that has been negative up to this point.

Reading your response made me think about myself and my inner struggle with just how submissive I am. With the right person in the right situation, I can't at this point fathom the level of submissiveness that I would reach. Two little words, said by the right person of course, can get you anything, absolutely anything you want out of me - "good girl" (or any variation thereof). So I would venture to say that you're absolutely right - at least in reference to me - when you say that the situation you describe could have the opposite effect on me.

 

[RJMasters]

Would you kindly share your fantasies with the rest of us RJ....sexual ones are always good.

I'm still waiting for replies to micromanagement in the bedroom...sigh.

Here are two examples which I have fantasied aboutand have done.

I remember coming home early from college on a friday night and the girls were off on sleepovers at their friends. I came in and walked into the bed room to find my wife laying in bed watching TV. I flopped down on the bed next to her and something seemed a bit off and as I was talking with her I had taken her hand during the conversation at some point I had lifter her hand to my lips to kiss it and could smell her scent strongly on her fingers.

I quickly put two and two together and then smelled her fingers nice and long....then looked up at her to see her face turning beat red. It appears I had interupted her masturbating by coming home early.

This sort of led to what happened next which flowed right into a micromanagement type session.

I began to ask questions...almost interogating like...

"so where have your fingers been?"

Each question continued to make her face redden...when I finally forced a confession from her...I tore down the covers exposing her and reached out and held her down then forced my hand between her legs and slid my fingers between her labia and found she was indeed wet.

She struggled a bit until I started moving my fingers and then she settled right down and started to moan. I took my fingers away and she looked at me questioningly...I told her..

"No, you are going to finish what you started and I am not only going to watch...I am going to tell you what to do."

The look on her face was priceless...lol.

I continued holding her down with my hand spanned across her colar bones and lower throat, I then made her masturbate in front of me while I told her how to use her fingers...I would tell her the motions I wanted and I would tell her to speed up and then slow down, harder or softer, side to side or in circles and when to slide them inside her. Controlling every motion of her hand...when she got so into it she was slow to respond, I tightened my grip on her lower throat just enough to bring her back or would use my free hand to pinch, twist and play with her nipples.

The touching lasted about 20 mins or so until I let her cum and then lead to other things.

------------

The second situation happened not too long after this one did. We had been drinking a little bit and she was a bit loosie goosie...she got a little frisky and I decided to toy with her a bit and decline her advances for sex. Finally she said she wanted to do something special and asked me what I wanted.

I told her I wanted to control her completely while she gave me a blow job. She giggled and agreed. I sat on the end of the bed and made her get on her knees. I gave her about a minute or so to do her own thing to ease into it all, then I reach out and grabbed some hair on the back of her head. Pulled her head back so she was looking at me and then told her lick and suck the right side of my cock. I used my hand to guide her head while she did...then told her to do the left side... then nice and slow...take me down as far as you can...now back up...etc...

Then I had her spread her knees further and touch herself while she did this. She has never done that before and I wanted her to do it. I made her hold my cock deep in her mouth as she had an orgasm...because I wanted to feel her intense moans on my cock while she came.

Many of my fantasies about mirco include Sado play which she is not into at all. So it appears they shall remain fantasies for now.

 

[Netzach]

I have no interest in setting up a routine in which M has to wear pink panties at all times and always have his butt shaved bare and whatnot, but it toasts my bread in the extreme to know that I can lay out pink panties for him any given night and watch him put them on in the AM or tell him to shave everything and know it'll get done any time I please.

To me it's liberating to be able to step in and make absurd minute things happen. I don't want to be tied to them. I don't want to tie myself to them. I don't like predictability anyhow.

People who have pages long lists of "you will do this that the other" minutiae before the scene even starts have always struck me as insecure. It's my own bias as a Dominant, I freely admit. I'd rather see the look on their face as the order's being processed anyway, it's priceless.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I will have to confess that my distaste for micromanagement in general comes from working with control freaks as supervisors from time to time over my years in law enforcement. Prime example:

I got a new work schedule and was assigned to work with a shift supervisor I had not worked with before. The first few calls I responded to, he showed up at each one of the calls. "Nice!" I thought... "El-Tee is coming to back me up." But he would arrive on the scene, then start telling me what to do. What questions to ask the victim, even how to write my report of the incident. The first few times, I was like "Okay, he's just making sure I cover the bases, write the reports the way he wants them done..." etc.

After a week, it was getting old. It's not like I was a wet-behind-the-ears, fresh-outta-the-academy-rookie. I had been with the force almost 3 years at that point (with 2 years at another department before that). And I realized he was doing the same thing with every other officer on the shift. (You shoulda seen him when we had 2 or 3 calls happen at the same time... the man would get totally spastic because he couldn't be at all the calls at the same time, he HAD to let someone do something outside of his control!)

After 2 weeks of this micro-managing, I had finally had it. In the middle of a call, I handed him my note pad, and told him "You don't need me here LT, all I'm doing is adding an extra layer of communication between you and the complainant. You're asking the questions and dictating the reports, all I'm doing is playing secretary and writing the notes. I'm a cop, not a secretary." And I turned to walk out... *grins and shrugs* He popped a cork.

Later in private I let him have it with both barrels. Explained EXACTLY what he was doing to me and every other officer on his shift, how he was treating us as incompetents, like children who couldn't do our jobs correctly unless he was there holding our hands and telling us what to do all the time... I was off his shift inside a week. THANK YOU, LORD!

He wasn't the first or the last, but he was the worst. And I swore I would never, EVER do that kind of bullshit to someone under my authority and supervision. Yes, there are times and situations were very tight, hands on control and management are appropriate, necessary, appreciated, and yes, even hot. But in my life, day-in, day-out micromanagement is anathema. It is the antithesis of trust and the epitamy of insecurity. I won't stand for someone trying to micromanage me, and I'm not going to do that to someone I control.

And as I said in my first foray on the thread... If someone has the time, energy and inclination, and it works with their partners, micromanage away. It's not my kink, and that's why.

 

[cati]

Evil Geoff, I truly understand where you're coming from...arghh.
For me, I hate being watched by a superior or co-worker for that matter... when doing my job. Watching and making sure everything is done correctly. I can't work under those conditions. I do think it's a matter of trust and a need for control on their part.

and thanks RJ for sharing...smiles.

 

[JMohegan]

I hadn't really thought about it in those terms. My only real experience with a little of that level of control was with egomaniacs who were out to prove how very smart and in control they were. One was my ex-husband and the other was a thankfully short-lived bout of insanity on my part. Neither were situations where I was praised at all but instead was contantly berated for not doing exactly as I was told - and not being a mind reader to boot. So yes, my experience with that has been negative up to this point.

Reading your response made me think about myself and my inner struggle with just how submissive I am. With the right person in the right situation, I can't at this point fathom the level of submissiveness that I would reach. Two little words, said by the right person of course, can get you anything, absolutely anything you want out of me - "good girl" (or any variation thereof). So I would venture to say that you're absolutely right - at least in reference to me - when you say that the situation you describe could have the opposite effect on me.

Thank you for this response, BeachGurl. I appreciate it very much.

I have known many submissive women who misinterpreted controlling behavior as reflective of a dominant personality that would make a good match for them. I am sorry this happened to you.

You mentioned on the Rituals thread that you had a positive reaction to the "level of expectations" described there, and wondered if this contradicted your reactions here. I don't really think so, because the general attitude reflected in most of the examples given is fundamentally different.... making this sort of an apples to rotten tomatoes comparison.

Consider Shadowsdream's bath ritual, described here. The post is quite long, but I highly recommend it to anyone who seeks a positive example of extensive control exerted on a regular basis. An excerpt:

When I hear the words " I think you are finished Mistress." I will instruct this wonderful man back into the frog position to wait until I am ready to leave the bath.
I direct even the smallest details of this ritual. It will be My direction that will have My submissive reaching for the towel that he will be expected to dry Me with. I do NOT want him thinking for himself at this moment. I want him to have the freedom of obedience. This boy reaches blindly for My towel, often having to crawl a few feet to locate it hanging on the bathroom wall. I watch every tentative move he makes.

No one is disgusted, angry, frustrated, incompetent, insecure, or untrustworthy in this scene.

I have never practiced this level of control on a daily basis, but I recognize many of the feelings that Shadowsdream conveys in this post.

"This wonderful man...."

Change that last word to "woman", and that basically says it all.

 

[AlphaSheWolf]

Micromanagement would personally tire Me out!
I want a slave who can at least think for himself.
Now if he is going to be home all day with nothing to do, THAT is a different matter!
I need control, but not to that extent.
He should at least know to go to restroom, brush teeth, fix supper, basis common sense things without being told.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... and a need for control on their part...

You make a very good point...

It IS a need for control. What is a Dom if he's not in control? What makes a Dom but a need to control? (among other stuff.)

Control (or management, micro or otherwise) is kinda the essence of DOM-hood.

Levels of control, of course vary according to style, comfort, and the desire of the Dom, among other things, but it does still come down to control, who has it and how he/she uses it.

 

[cati]

Well sure I agree on a Dom's desire for control. But there are those who... if they don't have complete control of a situation begin to fall apart. I wasn't referring to Dominants in particular in my post. Evil Geoff is a Dom who was being dictated to by a new supervisor. I was referring to people who need to be on control because they don't trust their subordinates or their equals for that matter.

So Rose, your feelings on this subject is that all managers and supervisors are Dominant? I would favour "the other stuff"

It IS a need for control. What is a Dom if he's not in control? What makes a Dom but a need to control? (among other stuff.)

For example domineering people have a need to control, but are they Dominant?...NO.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I am not masochistic enough of nature to personally continue with this Thread.

Thank you to those who participated , I will not be rejoining the discussion .

Oh my .........famous last words . Perhaps not.

Reading through this thread again was cathartic in some real ways. It was always a topic of some contention for me. Mention micromanagement and a steel door in my mind slammed down so fast I was intractable to consider a broader perspective on the topic. I would like to readdress this topic if anyone is interested in participating further.

For all intensive purposes the style of management I am referring to in my opinion strips the submissive of any more value than I imagine a flesh and blood robot

I sincerely wonder if that is not one of the most ignorant statements I have ever made.

In retrospection I apologise to anyone I may have initially offended by making it.