Michigan's Use of Affirmative Action is Wrong

[lavender]

I am an ardent supporter of affirmative action. I believe that it is necessary. However, I believe affirmative action has received very negative connotations due to the way it is administered in this country.

I believe a constitutional manner that enforced affirmative action is the plus in the file system. This means that if you have two individuals who are almost across the board the same, a person with ethnic diversity gets the nod with a "plus in the file." I believe that diversity is a compelling state interest in our undergraduate and graduate programs across this nation.

However, I do not like seeing universities go beyond this plus in the file system. From what I heard tonight on 60 Minutes (and I will research this further) an African American gets 20 points for being a minority whereas a person who scores a perfect on their LSAT gets 12 points on their point system. I find this absolutely ludicrous.

I hope this is not true, because if it is, not even I can support these measures and hope the Supreme Court can find these measures unconstitutional while upholding the constitutionality of a plus in the file system.

We shall see.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Posting because I hate to see a thread die without at least one response.

As for university admissions, I think schools can take their own affirmative action by recruiting (showing interest in) qualified students regardless of race.

 

[Freya]

Anytime a person with lesser qualifications gets bumped up over a person with higher qualifications it's wrong, irregardless of colour. When they do that, it's just reverse racism.

 

[Killswitch]

They already found it constitutional....that was a repeat.

I drive through the U of M campus nearly every day, and all I ever see is Asians, Indians, and Africans. ( I call them Africans here because from day to day I have no clue as to what they want to be called)

Dont forget they gave 20 points for anyone on a athletic scholorship.

I have a 17 year old stepson who would like nothing better than to go to U of M...He has a 4.10 GPA He wont even waste his time applying.

Racial diversity my ass.

This just perpetuates Racism in this country, and also perpetiates a lazy attitude, by those that can get in and do not deserve it because they didnt do the work.

M go blow.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Essay as one point. Such crap.

 

[Killswitch]

They have raised that to Three points for an OUTSTANDING essay.

And my stepson noted how little importance they seemed to place on the admission essay.....which I was in agreement with and pretty pissed off about.

The dumbass chick they had on there spewing Bollingers scripted replies blew right over it......

 

[70/30]

I have a friend that got a research opportunity from UM, he's hispanic. They recruited him. I know Stanford and UT Grad gives hefty bonuses to top rated engineering students but a lot more than ethnicity enters the equation at those places. I am also for diversity in educational settings but ethnic background shouldn't be looked at 1st, maybe 3rd or 4th.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Affirmative action is needed in this country for two reasons. One is to right perpetual historical wrongs that place certain groups at a distinct disadvantage. The other is that the majority cannot be trusted to admit, hire, approve loans, etc ... The majority simply doesn't want to admit that there has always been a 10 ^100 point bonus applied to everything for being White.

That having been said, it would actually be in my best interest if they discontinued the practice of awarding admissions point to minority students. My daughter has a perfect 4.00 GPA in a virtually all White school district. (I have no idea what a 4.10 GPA is.) If fewer minority students and women were able to gain admission to U of M, then my daughter will stand out all the more. At the very least she'll get my legacy points.

 

[miles]

I am an ardent supporter of affirmative action. I believe that it is necessary. However, I believe affirmative action has received very negative connotations due to the way it is administered in this country.

I believe a constitutional manner that enforced affirmative action is the plus in the file system. This means that if you have two individuals who are almost across the board the same, a person with ethnic diversity gets the nod with a "plus in the file." I believe that diversity is a compelling state interest in our undergraduate and graduate programs across this nation.

However, I do not like seeing universities go beyond this plus in the file system. From what I heard tonight on 60 Minutes (and I will research this further) an African American gets 20 points for being a minority whereas a person who scores a perfect on their LSAT gets 12 points on their point system. I find this absolutely ludicrous.

I hope this is not true, because if it is, not even I can support these measures and hope the Supreme Court can find these measures unconstitutional while upholding the constitutionality of a plus in the file system.

We shall see.

In the same breath you're saying you support AA, then say you don't support the way it's implemented.

That's like supporting capital punishment but opposing executions.

AA is unfair. No ifs, ands, or buts. You simply cannot favor one ethnic group over another and say it isn't discriminatory.

To say otherwise lfies in the face of logic.

 

[horny_giraffe]

You've got a point about AA being unfair, Miles. I'd agree.

I'm in favor of affirmative action, and here's why--

All of my life I've gotten my own form of affirmative action. I'm a white, middle-class male. Who do you think runs most companies? It's not that these people who run companies intend to discriminate. It's just that they want to hire people they trust and get along with--their friends. I was hired into the job I'm working because I had friends who worked there. It's a simple as that.

Culturally, many African Americans are unassimilated into mainstream white culture. They maintain a sense of ethnicity that alienates them from the white employers that hire them. They sometimes have trouble getting along with their employers due to ethnic differences (lifestyle choices, differences of values.) Employers may not trust them the way they trust their culturally-similar buddies.

Getting African Americans into white institutions forces them to make some cultural concessions--some attempt to assimilate. In some sense, one could argue that affirmative action encourages cultural assimilation.

 

[SINthysist]

So, you watched 60 Minutes?

 

[horny_giraffe]

So, you watched 60 Minutes?

Not me. Was it interesting?

 

[SINthysist]

In the 70's, I learned to emphasize being american-INDIAN. But that usually helped only with the shit jobs. By the 90's I was back to emphasizing AMERICAN as in my Caucasian half as I sought to expand my client list...

I think the weighted system they showed was ludicrous at best. Take the top X% and draw lottery-style. That will give the much vaunted "diversity" (which pisses me off 'cause what the University Spokesman was saying was put only white people in a room and they are dumber, as if NO white person has ever come from a bad neighborhood and ALL black people do...) which they seek when they discuss Crack Cocaine in the classroom.

The Calculus of Crack Cocaine on Campus!

 

[SINthysist]

The Algore piece was illuminating as he tried to say some things without saying them.

The piece on oil and Iraq was suprisingly balanced.

The piece about the woman giving out tons of money and having the audacity to want to have some say kinda seemed like a satire on politics and contibutors...

It was a 60 Minutes of a style which we have not seen since it's earlier days when it was sorta like the network version of FOX News.

IMHO




[edit - that's where I'm assuming lavy got the topic from and what my prior comments were directed towards...]

 

[SINthysist]

A 4.10 is an out-an-ouy indictment of how corrupt the admissions process as gone and how badly educators are willing to inflate grades to reach targets and place students...

If minority students are making 3.74, well, by handing out 4.10's you not only help the best students, you also help the minorities by moving them up to 3.75, i.e., 3.8 or 3.9 (depending on your own local flavor of new math), and as an extra side benefit due to race points, punish evil white people who went from 3.9 to 4.0...

FUCKTARDS!

I want the surgeon operating on me to have had legitimate 4.0's. My lawyer, business partner, wife...

Now, if I go to HIRE a minority from this University, did he/she/it make the grade, or did they get special treatment in that area too? It's a legitimate question judging by the answers from the University spokesman.

 

[horny_giraffe]

... Now, if I go to HIRE a minority from this University, did he/she/it make the grade, or did they get special treatment in that area too? It's a legitimate question judging by the answers from the University spokesman.

Good point. When I was in the Marines, years ago, they had a different Physical Fitness Test (PFT) for women than for men. That led to the feeling that all Marines were not, in fact, interchangeable as the command would like them to be. Women may or may not live up to the same physical standards as the men.

In that case, I would suggest that they lower the men's standards to accomodate the women--so at least you know that a Marine is a Marine--not a Woman Marine (WM) is a WM, and a male Marine is a Marine.

I wonder how that would apply to affirmative action?

 

[SINthysist]

I don't think, as another former grunt, that I want someone in my foxhole who only met the woman's standard. In fact, I hope they excelled as did I.

I also don't think that a BAM is going to be in the foxhole with me. But if she is (say in a rare circumstance like the surprise of the TET Offensive), the M-16 is under seven pounds and doesn't have much trigger pull. On the rifle range, EVERY MAN/WOMAN JACK/Y MARINE had damned well better live up to the same standard...

 

[SINthysist]

It's when they lower the standards for FIREFIGHTERS that I begin to worry ?

 

[SINthysist]

Yes, I was correct in my surmation...

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135801

 

[SINthysist]

Was waiting with baited breath, her heart pounding, eyes glazed over, chanting,

Hil-lar-y in 0'Four
Hil-lar-y in 0'Four
Hil-lar-y in 0'Four
Hil-lar-y in 0'Four
Hil-lar-y in 0'Four
Hil-lar-y in 0'Four

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135300

 

[Killswitch]

A 4.10 is an out-an-ouy indictment of how corrupt the admissions process as gone and how badly educators are willing to inflate grades to reach targets and place students...

If minority students are making 3.74, well, by handing out 4.10's you not only help the best students, you also help the minorities by moving them up to 3.75, i.e., 3.8 or 3.9 (depending on your own local flavor of new math), and as an extra side benefit due to race points, punish evil white people who went from 3.9 to 4.0...

FUCKTARDS!

I want the surgeon operating on me to have had legitimate 4.0's. My lawyer, business partner, wife...

Now, if I go to HIRE a minority from this University, did he/she/it make the grade, or did they get special treatment in that area too? It's a legitimate question judging by the answers from the University spokesman.

You are so wrong here it isnt even hardly worth replying to your drivel, but I will.
The kid has a 4.10 gpa because he is taking 2 AP courses. AP courses are college level courses and are graded on a 5. scale.
Its quite normal and does not inflate the other students grades.
What I DO find rediculous and counter productive is this whole trend to grade on a Curve. Stoooooopid.
Of course I suppose the kid could have spent his senior year taking underwater fingerpainting and woodworking, phys ed, choir, and home economics.

 

[Dantetier]

5 point GPA system

For everyones information, most of the country is now on a 5 point GPA system

D = 1
C=2
B=3
A=4

and in Honors, AP or IB classes,
A=5
B=4
C=2
D=1

And trust me, having taken honors and AP classes in High school, those classes are MUCH harder and MUCH faster then the normal classes. For Christs sake. I was in Biology in 9th grade for about 2 days until I bitched about not learning anything because they had us COLORING diagrams. Zoop, straight to honors Biology, where I actually LEARNED something


As for Affirmative action... I think it's gone too far. I'm sure it was useful back in the day, but I don't think it's needed thses days. Whatever happened to the best person gets the job. PERIOD.

 

[Killswitch]

Right on Dant. Thank you for explaining this more eloquently than I did. I dont know how many times my younger step kids come home and say " We watched a movie today in algebra"......
My oldest is taking AP Chemistry, AP Physics, English Lit, Trig, and Several History and Gov classes and only one elective...Choir...he cant sing worth a damn but he likes to sing. He tutors other kids in Math, and works his ass off five hours a night at least on homework.

 

[Dantetier]

I'm not even joking in this...

Did anyone ever see the movie Merlin? In my Literature class SENIOR YEAR... we had to watch that... it took 4 WEEKS! The stupid fucking teacher kept asking us where we left off and everyone said "oh, it was at the part where.." and it was all in the beginning of the movie.. I had seen it on TV myself, and I just said screw this and I went to help my fellow AS-1 Commander with his flight.

 

[Killswitch]

Right on Dant. Thank you for explaining this more eloquently than I did. I dont know how many times my younger step kids come home and say " We watched a movie today in algebra"......
My oldest is taking AP Chemistry, AP Physics, English Lit, Trig, and Several History and Gov classes and only one elective...Choir...he cant sing worth a damn but he likes to sing. He tutors other kids in Math, and works his ass off five hours a night at least on homework.

But because he isn't from some ethnic group he cant attend the biggest school in our state.

I for one am damned glad the U of M is taking all the bad press lately with this affermative action deal and the Fab Five taking money.

GO STATE!